EMOTION = Private Axioms

Author: 3RU7AL 6 years ago

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3RU7AL

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3RU7AL

12.21.2018 06:23PM

Everything that is considered a "mystery" or "sheer opinion" is, in-fact, PERFECTLY LOGICAL.

The "mystery" is simply a consequence of Private Axioms.

Before Democritus, people believed the weather was (fundamentally) unpredictable and reasoned it was subject to the (mysterious and inscrutable) personal whims of the gods (which were also presumed to be fundamentally unpredictable).

Democritus figured out that, with proper data, weather can be predicted.

Democritus identified the Axioms of weather patterns.

Pythagoras observed the natural world, very carefully, and noticed (among other things) that musical notes that "sound right" are comprised of strings that have particular proportions relative to each other.

Pythagoras did not invent music of course, he did not even invent the idea of instruments, but he devised an occult (secret) system that he only shared with his most trusted acolytes (and even murdered those who might share this occult system with the uninitiated or his rivals, the followers of Cylon), this occult (secret) system applied, not only to music, but to nearly all observable natural phenomena. Those lucky few who knew the code were better able to predict outcomes than everyone else.

The code dispelled the precious "mystery".

The physical world always functioned according to logic, but the axioms were unknown and therefore the physical world appeared to be "unpredictable".

Pythagoras identified the Axioms of nature.

It seems insane that so many seem to love and protect the "mystery" (appeal to ignorance) so much.

Mopac

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Mopac

12.21.2018 06:52PM

Is a mystery something to be understood or solved, or is mystery an experience? A priest once told me that it was the later, and I took it as something very profound.

Eucharist means "thanksgiving". It is considered a holy mystery of the orthodox faith. Is thanksgiving something to be solved or understood? No, it really is something to be experienced.

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3RU7AL

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3RU7AL

12.21.2018 07:15PM

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@Mopac

Is a mystery something to be understood or solved, or is mystery an experience? A priest once told me that it was the later, and I took it as something very profound.

I agree that "mystery" is an experience (Qualia). A "mystery" is not a measurable thing or event or property of matter (Quanta).

Can we Quantify Qualia? Sometimes we can and sometimes we can't, but it makes sense to me that we should at least try.

Eucharist means "thanksgiving". It is considered a holy mystery of the orthodox faith. Is thanksgiving something to be solved or understood? No, it really is something to be experienced.

Middle English eukarist, from Anglo-French eukariste, from Late Latin eucharistia, from Greek, Eucharist, gratitude, from eucharistos grateful, from eu- + charizesthai to show favor, from charis favor, grace, gratitude; akin to Greek chairein to rejoice [LINK]

However, the term "eucharist" as it is used in modern times is "a ritual in which followers pretend to commit cannibalism".

The less you explain it (protect/preserve the mystery with arcane terminology), the more appealing it seems.

Mopac

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Mopac

12.21.2018 07:32PM

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@3RU7AL

Man does not live by bread alone, but by The Word that proceeds from God.

Who is The Son of The Trinity? The Word of God.

Everything was created by and through The Word of God.

So when we eat the bread and drink the wine, we are literally eating the body and blood of Jesus Christ as The Word made Flesh.

That sure is a lot of mystery there. It has to be that way.

So recognizing that we rely of The Word of God is how we are thankful.

Really, every meal should be eucharist. That is why we pray over and bless our food. Keeping God always in our thoughts is how we pray unceasingly. Life really should be eucharist.

And I can certainly say that one of the most life changing decisions I ever made was to make the entire month of November Thanksgiving. I never stopped. Now every day is thanksgiving. I am a great deal better off for it.

A lot of mystery there.

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3RU7AL

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3RU7AL

12.21.2018 07:46PM

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@Mopac

Man does not live by bread alone, but by The Word that proceeds from God.Who is The Son of The Trinity? The Word of God.Everything was created by and through The Word of God.So when we eat the bread and drink the wine, we are literally eating the body and blood of Jesus Christ as The Word made Flesh.That sure is a lot of mystery there. It has to be that way.So recognizing that we rely of The Word of God is how we are thankful.Really, every meal should be eucharist. That is why we pray over and bless our food. Keeping God always in our thoughts is how we pray unceasingly. Life really should be eucharist.And I can certainly say that one of the most life changing decisions I ever made was to make the entire month of November Thanksgiving. I never stopped. Now every day is thanksgiving. I am a great deal better off for it.A lot of mystery there.

The more you try to explain it, the less appealing it becomes.

If you love "mystery" so much, you really should stop trying to ruin it for everybody.

Mopac

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Mopac

12.21.2018 07:55PM

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@3RU7AL

Maybe I shouldn't.

But the point is, we don't pretend to be cannibals.

And the other even bigger point is that in the end, an attitude of gratitude will do much to serve you. God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud. Practicing thanksgiving requires humility.

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3RU7AL

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3RU7AL

12.21.2018 08:00PM

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@Mopac

But the point is, we don't pretend to be cannibals.

Didn't you just say, "...we are literally eating the body and blood of Jesus Christ..."?

And the other even bigger point is that in the end, an attitude of gratitude will do much to serve you. God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud. Practicing thanksgiving requires humility.

Expressing gratitude does have measurable positive psychological effects (by raising serotonin levels in the brain).

No "mystery" required.

Mopac

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Mopac

12.21.2018 08:10PM

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@3RU7AL

No, not pretending to eat the body of Christ at all. Certainly eating it. Certainly drinking the blood. But, you know, that is part of the mystery. You are right though, it is wrong of me to talk about. In fact, when we partake of the eucharist during the liturgy, the choir sings about not speaking of these mysteries! It is likely because of this accusation of cannablism. I am certainly in the wrong here.

That all said, I don't think reducing something to a chemical process removes the mystery of experiencing it.

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3RU7AL

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3RU7AL

12.21.2018 08:21PM

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@Mopac

No, not pretending to eat the body of Christ at all. Certainly eating it. Certainly drinking the blood. But, you know, that is part of the mystery. You are right though, it is wrong of me to talk about. In fact, when we partake of the eucharist during the liturgy, the choir sings about not speaking of these mysteries! It is likely because of this accusation of cannablism. I am certainly in the wrong here.

(EITHER) your church wafers and wine contain human cells and dna (OR) jesus christ was a golem comprised primarily of wheat and grape juice.

Please choose one or the other.

That all said, I don't think reducing something to a chemical process removes the mystery of experiencing it.

Understanding the chemical processes of our brains makes our behavior more predictable.

A mystery has no explanatory power precisely because it has no predictive power.

#10

Mopac

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Mopac

12.21.2018 10:55PM

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@3RU7AL

(EITHER) your church wafers and wine contain human cells and dna (OR) jesus christ was a golem comprised primarily of wheat and grape juice.

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

So do you believe man made everything?

I think even you know that is silly.

Besides that, we Orthodox do not eat wafers and drink grape juice. That is a Roman Catholic thing, and maybe a practice of one the thousands of other churches that broke away from them. None of these churches are The Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. To be nice, we call them heterodox, but truly, it wouldn't be a stretch to call them heretical churches.

Understanding the chemical processes of our brains makes our behavior more predictable.

A mystery has no explanatory power precisely because it has no predictive power.

Maybe thanksgiving is not intended to have predictive or explanitory power. Maybe it is something, as I said, to be experienced. Faith without works is dead. Simply intellectualizing everything is like looking at a shadow of the truth rather than experiencing the truth.

11 days later

Topic's author

#11

3RU7AL

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3RU7AL

01.02.2019 03:00PM

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@Mopac

Maybe religion is not intended to have predictive or explanatory power.

#12

keithprosser

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keithprosser

01.02.2019 03:25PM

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@Mopac

In the boring ordinary reality of atheists and scientists the wine stays wine and the wager stays wafer. But in the thrilling and spiritual reality of faith they become blood and flesh.

When you have got you head around that, the difference in what the two camps mean by 'reality' becomes a little clearer!

#13

Mopac

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Mopac

01.02.2019 05:50PM

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@3RU7AL

Maybe that isn't supposed to be your motivation.

#14

Mopac

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Mopac

01.02.2019 05:54PM

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@keithprosser

You mock and scoff, but "All things were made by The Word of God; and without The Word was not any thing made that was made.", and enlivened by The Holy Spirit.

God is with us. God is among us.

And I know this for a fact, because I can see. You are blind, and won't see until your etes have been opened.

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#15

3RU7AL

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3RU7AL

01.02.2019 05:57PM

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@Mopac

Maybe that isn't supposed to be your motivation.

What is it good for? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgJ11FW6B3E

#16

Mopac

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Mopac

01.02.2019 06:08PM

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@3RU7AL

At least not for you, but that is because your motivation is wrong and your standards are skewed by a clouded heart.

You worship the creature rather than the creator, and as a result your heart is polluted by idolatry.

The Orthodox Church is a hospital for such sicknesses. But make no mistake, God is the physician.

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#17

3RU7AL

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3RU7AL

01.02.2019 06:14PM

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@Mopac

The Orthodox Church is a hospital for such sicknesses. But make no mistake, God is the physician.

I'm just looking for the practical up-shot.

#18

Mopac

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Mopac

01.02.2019 06:26PM

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@3RU7AL

Godliness with contentment is great gain

Topic's author

#19

3RU7AL

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3RU7AL

01.02.2019 07:07PM

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@Mopac

Godliness with contentment is great gain

What do you mean by "godliness"?

Do you mean "act like the old testament god"?

Please sacrifice your best livestock specimen to me once a year to assuage my fury.

#20

Mopac

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Mopac

01.02.2019 08:03PM

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@3RU7AL

There is only 1 God, and the "old testament God" is the same as the new Testament God.

Perhaps godliness can be described as...

"charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned."

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#21

3RU7AL

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3RU7AL

01.02.2019 08:08PM

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@Mopac

Perhaps godliness can be described as...

"charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned."

The "YHWH" does not have a conscience or a heart or faith and could solve all poverty and disease in the blink of an eye.

#22

Mopac

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Mopac

01.02.2019 08:27PM

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@3RU7AL

The Existing One has given us the gift of free will. That means we can choose to work with God or reject God. What greater poverty is there than to be bankrupt of God? What greater disease than a heart sick against God?

I would not blame God because people out of their own freedom have rejected The One who saves them.

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#23

3RU7AL

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3RU7AL

01.02.2019 08:45PM

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@Mopac

The Existing One has given us the gift of poverty and disease.

What does disease have to do with free-will?

What do floods and fires and hurricanes and earthquakes have to do with free-will?

What does poverty have to do with free-will?

Do infants choose to be born into horrific circumstances?

If gods can't even fix these problems, what hope do us mere humans have?

#24

Mopac

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Mopac

01.02.2019 10:49PM

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@3RU7AL

I am speaking of no gods, I am speaking of God.

The problem of evil amounts to little more than denying reality because it doesn't conform to one's arbitrary sense of aesthetics. If you recognize God as being The Truth, The Ultimate Reality, it is a nonsense argument.

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#25

3RU7AL

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3RU7AL

01.02.2019 11:01PM

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@Mopac

The problem of evil amounts to little more than denying reality because it doesn't conform to one's arbitrary sense of aesthetics. If you recognize God as being The Truth, The Ultimate Reality, it is a nonsense argument.

Disease is not evil.

Floods and fires and hurricanes and earthquakes are not evil.

Poverty is not evil.

I'm not talking about evil.

#26

Mopac

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Mopac

01.03.2019 01:00AM

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@3RU7AL

Yet you refer to them as "problems".

And certainly, they are problems for people.

As written the book of Isaiah the prophet..

"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou?"

The "evil" that is spoken of in this scripture very specifically refers to calamities such as natural disasters, disease, etc.

So you are wrong to say that God struggles to fix these problems, as God created these things.

But detachment from God is certainly the worst poverty, and animosity towards God the worst disease.

#27

keithprosser

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keithprosser

01.03.2019 06:13AM

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@Mopac

But detachment from God is certainly the worst poverty, and animosity towards God the worst disease

You have a knack for aphorisms - you can make nonsense sound like ancient wisdom!

But do you really want to stand by what you wrote?

I take it you have always had the money to buy food and shoes for your children and you have never suffered long-term chronic pain.

#28

Mopac

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Mopac

01.03.2019 06:14AM

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@keithprosser

I was homeless for 8 years and I broke my back when I was 18. I am also an orphan.

#29

keithprosser

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keithprosser

01.03.2019 06:47AM

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@Mopac

I will take that as saying you do stand by it.

I continue to think an african mother unable to buy food for her baby has worse poverty than a rich atheist. Or do you mean poverty in a broad sense, i.e. in a way it doesn't actually mean?

#30

Mopac

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Mopac

01.03.2019 06:51AM

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@keithprosser

In a way it doesn't mean?

Why should I explain anything to you when you adopt such a haughty attitude? You are simply mocking me.

Nevertheless, some of these who are poorest when it comes to money have great riches stored in heaven.