Islam vs. Christianity

this is one of the stupidest arguments i ever heard, regarding trying to rationalize chopping of heads and hands. and you claim it's me not thinking critically. 

really think about this. does the God of love that you pretend to worship, really wanting you to chop of heads and hands, and focus on getting lots of sex when you die? does that really sound like a divine plan to you? it's obviously as man made of a teaching, as we can get. 

God does not control who goes to Hell.

You see hundreds of people purpousfully walking off of a cliff. Then you see a man walking through the crowd trying to convince people to walk the other way.

 As I believe Christians have been fools/fooled for the last 2000 years because they, in their extremely poor wisdom, have adopted a god from an ancient time they didn't understand, an ancient culture they didn't understand and an ancient society they didn't understand.

No Christians are not fools and they have not been fooled. Most of famous scholars, scientists, philosophers were Christian and defended Christian beliefs....

In my opinion, Muslims have been patient and have played the long game extremely well, no pun intended.  Over the last 40 years to my knowledge, Muslims have infiltrated and embedded themselves in many high offices of Western institutions - Government, Local Government, Education, Police force, Army, Navy Air Force. Medical Profession, Entertainment, Sport , you name it. And helped and  assisted all by our own self serving Governments trying to convince us with the usual patronising bullshite "Islam is a religion of peace" and "only a tiny few".  

One can say that about any group: infiltrating,

No anyone that tells you Islam is a religion of peace is lying. There are violent aspects of Islam, it is not a pacifist religion. Violence is not necessarily bad.  But they are known as takfiris an offshoot of Wahabbism.

Is the Isis terror organisation made up of Muslims?

Yes they are by definition.

ope.  The rampage of Islam was finally stopped in Europe when  Polish king—King Jan (John) Sobieski finally halted the invading butchers of Islam at the Battle of Vienna against the Ottoman MUSLIM Empire in 1683.   Didn't the Muslim Turks have FIVE of the largest Empires the world has  ever known? I wonder how they managed that?  Did they just wonder into most of Europe without a sword being draw and simply invited in with out an exchange of words?

Yes. But what I am saying is if Muslims believed that they had to kill Christians and Jews. Nothing could stop them from doing that to their neighbors. NO such things is accepted by respected Muslim scholars of today or before. 

MSM don't seem to want to report on the conflicts around the world where Muslims are butchering their Muslim "brother & sisters"  by the MILLIONS or Christians by the MILLIONS.   Why do you believe they are so reluctant to do so?

They do. You are just not aware of it.

They do report it. ISIS has killed a lot of Shia Muslims, Yazidis and Christians.

But on the grand scale of things there are more terrorists by Islam today.

Does that mean Christiatniy is a violent religion.

Well, thats an interesting thought that makes no sense, since God dictates who wont go to hell. He made the rules, remember?

Yeah, and he gave us Free Will. What about free will is confusing?

Well appealing to education doesn't mean anything. There are probably more better educated that don't believe the bible. And Christians are fools because they still believe that a rotten stinking three days old corpse come back to life.

Does the bible actually state that Jesus died?

No it doesn't. It actually says nothing more than he gave up his spirit, which could mean a lot of things in those ancient times. In fact Jesus is said to have called out to his god/father "why have you forsaken me"? That to me sounds like a loss of faith and not an endorsement for the afterlife or the resurrection.

I agree. The OT is riddled with infiltration by different groups and factions; into Egypt for instance.. I am simply pointing out this is exactly what Muslims have done and are doing in the 21st century West.

They are lying. And you have said it is not "pacifist" But that - your - statement deserves a complete thread of its own. So best leave that one there unless you decide to make a thread titled  "Why Islam is a "a religion of peace".?

And is their holy book the Quran?

Not all Muslims believe that though do they?  My point is that enough do. And if they had the weaponry they would take on all those that appose their warped belief: Islam. 

I have seen no reports of Western MSM reporting from the Yemen for instance where they are claiming MUSLIMS killing Muslims. They, on the rare occasion, simply headline it as a "civil war".

That was because WESTERN governments were involved in those particular conflicts and the enemy were TERRORISTS! 

I agree. But our Western media will always maintain that it  "just a tiny few", whenever challenged.

Christianity is guilty of terrible past atrocities and in the name of Jesus too. . And no one can deny that. Christians have murdered  Christians, but - in the name of their god. <<< This is what I mean by DUPED and fooled.

But the difference is that the Christian God ; Jesus, does not instruct his followers to go out into the world and murder, rape, enslave and pillage anyone that doesn't believe in him, does he?

  But the god of the Quran does. Quite the opposite to the god of the Christians; Jesus says "turn the other cheek". " Love they neighbour".  Love thy enemies". 

Islam cannot reform, can it? <<This is a big problem for Muslims.

Israel too has dragged itself into the 21st century. It no longer stones people to death.  

What is the definition of God. The creator of everything yes? Ok. How can the entity who creates everything (creation) also be creation? This is the point of contradiction.

Also, being born of a virgin does mean you are created. Who created Jesus? Christians would say Jesus. So God created himself? The creator created the creator? 

Why? If I believe my religion is right then violence is justified. If my religion says that I should protect my country from agressors, why can't I. Because you don't agree with my justification. Well I don't agree with yours :) 

If I believe my religion is right then violence is justified.

If I believe I am the opposite gender, then violence for anyone who opposes that is justified. 

This topic has a lot of intricacies. But I would disagree, of course. O

Eyewitness or testimonies are not the most reliable piece of information. And not used in formal logic. Because our senses can deceive us. 

Yes, all prophets performed miracles. That doesn't indicate anything about that person being superior. It only indicates that God can give powers to people. 

How do you interpret the verse? If it's a reasonable interpretation then its valid. 

Free will is irrelevant. Even with free will, it still stands that God created evil people.

Thats what your Bible says.

 And because of omniscience, God knew that people will be evil and he still created them causing great majority of them to go to Hell

The punishment for action is not proportional to the action.

If you think its normal for people to burn alive for all eternity because they had gay sex or because they didnt believe in God, then thats the disproportional punishment which makes you and your God draconian.

Jesus. Was. Not. Created.

He has always existed. 

The Bible and the Qur'an explicitly point out that Jesus was born of a virgin. 

God created everything right? 

Why can't God make a physical body for himself, and come to earth?

Why is that a contradiction?

Jesus = God the Son

God the son wasn't created.

Jesus was never created. Only the body he was in was. 

What is stopping God from creating a body for himself to come down in physical form in? 

Saying:

If I believe my religion is right then violence is justified.

Is like saying: 

If I believe I am the opposite gender, then violence for anyone who opposes that is justified. 

Belief in God (especially a loving God) should not justify violence. 

Your right. Eyewitness testimonies are not the most reliable piece of information, but that tied into the fact that you have hundreds of these eyewitnesses, recorded drastically changing their lives for this miracle they saw. Paul, who was recorded as a person who slaughtered Christians drastically change into one of the most important figures in Christian history. Individual eyewitness accounts are not helpful, but that's why we have 4 gospels. 4 main eyewitness accounts. Why would hundreds of people change their lives, leave their family's and die for their faith, based off of a lie?

But Jesus was the only man in the Bible, who claimed to be God. 

Let's take the first part:

"O you who have Faith! When you go forth (to fight) in the way of Allah, make investigation, and do not say to the one who offers you peace: 

I interoperate the bolded part as saying use violence, in the name of Allah. I don't think that's too much of a stretch. 

There's like one Muslim guy here who's getting wolfpacked, so I don't want to pile on to that. Here are a few quick thoughts

Neither faith is founded in "reason" but in revelation.

I'll agree it's unreasonable to assume that God always had a human form from whenever He first came into existence (if such a point can be said to exist), but it's not unreasonable to assume that God could wed a part of Himself to the human form. The question here becomes: what are the limits of what God can hypothetically do to Himself? And the correct answer is "we don't know".

To assert that God couldn't make Himself human or into a Trinity is just that: an unproven and unproveable assertion. Just as much as it's an assertion that God can and did do such. Neither Christianity nor Islam came into existence because some brilliant philosopher reasoned his way into it but because, both allege, God revealed certain otherwise unknowable knowledge to mankind.

The New Testament's strength, I think, lies in how little it said. Paul was given a mission to preach the Gospel, but he wasn't given perfect knowledge of what the ideal culture or form of government ought to look like. And he didn't pretend that he knew. There were generalities like "be moral as opposed to immoral", but this allowed for improvements in our collective understanding of what morality looked like. Paul didn't outright say "abolish slavery" but at the same time he didn't say not to abolish slavery. A Christian society wasn't impeded from adapting on this issue because of its Christian faith.

In short, its authors didn't demand "all Christians from now onward must live EXACTLY like 1st century Eastern Mediterranean Greeks did!" Which is good, because after a while Christians were no longer living in a 1st century Hellenic civilization.

If by Jesus you mean God. Then of course he was not created because he is by definition the creator or the root cause. 

born(def): come into existence as a result of birth. Jesus came into existence i.e born. For Jesus to come into existence (creation), and also create that existence (creator), it means he was both creator and creation. 

God created everything right? 

Yes, that's the definition of God. 

Why can't God make a physical body for himself, and come to earth?

Because its illogical. God can't do illogical things like be both creation and creator. 

God (def): in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.

Because he is by definition a creator he can't be creation as well. So it is contradictory. 

He was born so he came into existence.

By definition, he was created (as the Son) by the Father (the creator). 

Yes if Jesus is God the father he was not created. However, if he comes to earth in the "flesh" he is part of creation.

Nothing is stopping God. It is stopping us. Us humans can't accept illogical things

Yes. It is saying that. Everyone should do act on what the think is moral, no? 

Morality is generally objective, but subjective to each individual.

God is all loving. Both Christian and Muslims beleive that. However God is also just i.e justice, which both Muslims and Christians believe. So violence is justified. 

Christianity, as a whole, is not based on a lie. Jesus was a real historical figure. Sure eyewitness are valid. However, God is all-powerful, he can deceive people into thinking otherwise. The Quran states, "it was made to appear like Jesus was crucified" which is not impossible for God to do. That's why we can't largely trust our senses. 

Bible is mainly historical narrations. It has some holy/divine parts which is why Quran talks about it as one of the holy books.

Yes. In Islam the best intention is to do things for God. Why is Jihad (struggling or fighting for God) bad? As long as you don't kill innocents there is no wrong. 

Again, what is stopping Jesus (God) from creating a body, and taking on that body?

How is it illogical?

So, your telling God he can't do something. Thats new. 

What is illogical about God, creating a body, for him to use to come down to earth in? 

The Qur'an has significantly greater illogical claims than this, and this claim isn't even illogical.

Morality is objective. Ethics are subjective. 

Born of a virgin. How does a fetus just pop into existence? 

No one is arguing violence isn't justified in certain situations. We are arguing whether or not it's justified to defend religion. 

Why would God create a whole religion on purpose that contradicts the Quran, if the Quran is indeed true? Why would God deceive people into that? 

Question. Wasn't the Bible the first revelation of Allah before the Quran? 

Why do you need to fight for God? Why isn't he perfectly capable of holding his own against his own creation?

Does the bible actually state that Jesus died?

Yes. The Bible has many historical narrations.

It is up to the historians and Christians to interpret that.

Why should they listen to your interpretation of history?

No it doesn't. It actually says nothing more than he gave up his spirit, which could mean a lot of things in those ancient times. In fact Jesus is said to have called out to his god/father "why have you forsaken me"? That to me sounds like a loss of faith and not an endorsement for the afterlife or the resurrection.

Doubt is not a sin. And is normal to humans. Living in a constant state of doubt is not good. One should be mostly certain of there beliefs. But all prophets had times where they had doubt or felt hopeless. 

I agree. The OT is riddled with infiltration by different groups and factions; into Egypt for instance.. I am simply pointing out this is exactly what Muslims have done and are doing in the 21st century West.

Yes. And why is it bad? Because they are harming your belief system? Well both Christianity and Islam are authoritative. That is their nature. 

They are lying. And you have said it is not "pacifist" But that - your - statement deserves a complete thread of its own. So best leave that one there unless you decide to make a thread titled  "Why Islam is a "a religion of peace".?

I don't believe it is. Violence is allowed, when needed. 

And is their holy book the Quran?

Yes and so is mine. What's the difference? Interpretation. ISIS interprets literally. 

Not all Muslims believe that though do they?  My point is that enough do. And if they had the weaponry they would take on all those that appose their warped belief: Islam. 

All 5 schools in Islam believe this. The only ones who don't are usually those who interpret literally (like the Salafis) who are followed by less than 1%.

Quran says Christians and Jews are people of the book. They are not disbelievers or Kafir (because a kafir by definition is anyone who knows Islams truth and rejects it). Only God knows who is Kafir. Yes, and that's how terrorist groups work. They get funding and they get stronger. 

I have seen no reports of Western MSM reporting from the Yemen for instance where they are claiming MUSLIMS killing Muslims. They, on the rare occasion, simply headline it as a "civil war".

Yea. The whole Shia-Sunni fighting has been over exaggerated. They have lived at peace for most of their history. Of course, wars make people blame other people. For the most part Shia-Sunni was only happened for 200 out of the 1400 year history of Islam (Safavids vs Ottomans). 

That was because WESTERN governments were involved in those particular conflicts and the enemy were TERRORISTS! 

Muslims were the main victims of those terrorists. It was Iraqi soldiers and other who fought them and died fighting them. 

I agree. But our Western media will always maintain that it  "just a tiny few", whenever challenged.

Because statistically it is a tiny few. ISIS has mainly died down. And other terrorist groups are followed by minority of Muslims.

Christianity is guilty of terrible past atrocities and in the name of Jesus too. . And no one can deny that. Christians have murdered  Christians, but - in the name of their god. <<< This is what I mean by DUPED and fooled.

So what? People murder people in the name of any ideology. Those people are not fools. Christians and Muslims of the past were willing to die for their beliefs. It may not be the case for Christians now, but is for Muslims now. 

But the difference is that the Christian God ; Jesus, does not instruct his followers to go out into the world and murder, rape, enslave and pillage anyone that doesn't believe in him, does he?

Rape is immoral. God instructs both religions to do the right thing. If someone sees something bad happening and doesn't do anything to stop it, they are doing what is immoral. 

  But the god of the Quran does. Quite the opposite to the god of the Christians; Jesus says "turn the other cheek". " Love they neighbour".  Love thy enemies". 

Yes. But you can't always love your enemy. Especially if your enemy is planning to do something bad to you. 

Islam cannot reform, can it? <<This is a big problem for Muslims.

It has. There have been many reforms. But not to the main teachings, if they contradict those teachings. You are just not aware because of them. 

Israel too has dragged itself into the 21st century. It no longer stones people to death.  

Sure. But they still kill people with different methods. :D And sometimes with religious justification too. Every ideology does this. Religion is not specific to it. 

The discussion is on Islam and Christianity, but I believe the atheists (Stephen) or nonreligious (Best.Korea) want to have something to say.

So I have invited other people who defend religion to discuss this topic.

In fact this shouldn't even be about Islam vs Christianity.

It should be religion vs. atheistic accusations on them lol

Yes, all prophets performed miracles. That doesn't indicate anything about that person being superior. It only indicates that God can give powers to people. 

But Jesus was the only man in the Bible, who claimed to be God. 

I am kinda getting drunk, so its best if we just agree to disagree for now. I feel like I am derailing the thread, when I should just be letting christian and muslim guy fight each other while I watch and do nothing.

Good. Then you won't mind showing me where the BIBLE actually state that Jesus died on the cross or anywhere else come to that.

Why

I haven't suggested once that you, they or anyone else should listen to me.

I see. So the Son of God had a loss of faith about the one  that sent him? 

No. Because they are changing my country, society and culture with their own.  There is a difference. Church and state are separate in Britain.  Islam is Islam, there is nothing else.  

Indeed , that is true where Islam intends to change the culture, society and way of life of one nation with the full intent of replacing it with Islam.

So then, we have established that Isis it a MUSLIM terrorist organisation that follow and take their instructions from the Quran. See, wasn't hard was it? 

The question of interpretation is a Muslim problem, that only Muslims can remedy, correct and alter. But the thing there is, they can't can they?

Because according to Islam and Muslims, the Quran is the last and the perfect unalterable word of god. 

So then.  1%. of 1.7 billion followers is 17 MILLION <<<< that must be that "just a tiny few" the western MSM keep telling us about.

Yes. that will be the "civil war" that western MSM don't with us to know that is actually MUSLIMS butchering and murdering other MUSLIMS, which I did mention.

I know they have murdered in the name of their religious ideology and their gods, but MUSLIMS are still doing so. Not just to the Wester civilisations but their own people too.

And you keep ignoring the FACT that Christianity, like Judaism ,has dragged itself into the 21st century. Islam is stuck in the dark ages and cannot ever move forward, change or reform. THAT is a big problem for Muslims.

You again are ignoring the point. Jesus the god of Christians has never commanded that his followers to go out into the world and kill others for simply not believing in him. But the god of the Quran does.

I  agree. but we here are talking about being murdered simply for not believing,  and not because someone wants to harm us.

FFS!  it hasn't reformed in any way at all. The Quran is believed by MUSLIMS to be the perfect unalterable word of god. Nothing has change since its conception in the 14th century.

What has Islam reformed from to?  What changes has it made? There was abrogation that made its ideology a thousand times more vile , barbaric and murderous and  than it was to begin with. 

But we are "specifically"  discussing religion. So  can you expand on that. Keeping in mind we are speaking religious practices. While also keeping in mind that Israel doesn't have the death penalty.

What you believe about me is irrelevant.  And I do have something to say and have said it. And will continue to keep saying it.

That's kind of you. 

But its not , is it?   It is  titled "Islam vs. Christianity" LOL.

Nothing is stopping God. It's stopping us. Humans can't accept contradictions. They can't accept God to do impossible things.

Yes. God can't do impossible things. He is all powerful but not able to do impossible things.

Can God create a rock he can't lift? Can God kill himself? Can he make 2+2=5?

It is possible for God to make himself into human form. However, if we accept that then that means we accept contradictions. Because human knowledge is limited we limit God to the laws of logic. We can't accept impossible things

The same way Adam and Eve came into existence. 

Why do you put conditions? Of course, if religion is true then what it says is justified. So other people can do violence because of non-religious reasons. But if someone does it for religious reasons. Their beliefs are not justified? Am I getting that right? 

God deceives those who want to be deceived. He guides those who wants to be guided. That's the consequence of free will. God "wants" the individual to decide which is true.

Yes. Bible comes from the same source as Quran i.e God. But Quran says most of the parts were corrupted by humans. And it contains contradictions. 

Because its an honorable thing to fight oppression?

Don't expect the Reverend to join this thread, BK.

Impossible things are called miracles. Miracles happen both in the Qur'an and the Bible. Don't tell me you can't accept those things. 

Red Herring right in my face Lol.

You also just contradicted yourself. 

Either God is all powerful, or he isn't.

If he isn't all powerful, then that means there is a force more powerful than him.

What created human logic, and the rules of the Universe? God. Who can break rules. God. We may not be able to comprehend the breaking of the rules, but he still can.

If you are saying God can't do something, you are saying your God isn't all powerful. 

There you have it folks. The Islamic God is not all powerful. 

God is a force that is beyond our comprehension. Again, he created logic, and he can destroy it. If your God is bound by logic, then he is not all powerful. 

Your God is bound by logic, and my God created logic. Hmmmmmmmm................

In that case be an atheist. The Qur'an contains many illogical miracles that can only be explained by "God did" if they are true. 

For instance, the Qurans scientific accuracy for its time? 

Your logic is that if you can't explain something to a T, then it is illogical. In that case:

Be an atheist.

Ok? And in the Bible, Jesus claims to be God

No. What I am saying is that if there is all loving, all just, and all-powerful God, violence for that religion would be unneeded, because God doesn't need anyone to defend him. 

So, to understand this right:

God made it look like Jesus died on a cross, to deceive the ones who wanted to be deceived. 

Weren't you just talking about using logic?

If someone in that time period sees a man who claims to be God, die, and rise again, and they believe it, then they are one of the ones who want to be deceived? 

But if another guy comes along and said God said it was fake, then he's right, right? 

Now that's logic for ya. 

Ok so if the Bible is God's word.................then how did man corrupt his word, because in the Qur'an it says no one can alter Allahs words................

Pretty contradicting.

Woah. I wasn't talking about oppression. I was talking about God. 

Fighting for the oppressed is fine.

I'm asking why do you need to fight for God? 

Like even if you're fighting oppression in the name of Allah, I think is fine, but I'm talking about directly attacking people based upon religion by itself. 

aql_reason wrote: It is up to the historians and Christians to interpret that.#105

Why? 

Who interprets science? Scientists? Who interprets History? Historians. If you don't understand how to interpret something you look at what those people say. And if what they say makes sense, you take it.

No. Because they are changing my country, society and culture with their own.  There is a difference. Church and state are separate in Britain.  Islam is Islam, there is nothing else.  

Citizens of muslim countries would say the same things about the western culture and influence.

Yes, Islam is a way of life not just a religion. When you submit to God, you submit in all aspects of life. 

Indeed , that is true where Islam intends to change the culture, society and way of life of one nation with the full intent of replacing it with Islam.

That's not the goal of violence. And the goal of Islam was never to force convert others to Islam.

Stephen wrote: The question of interpretation is a Muslim problem, that only Muslims can remedy, correct and alter. But the thing there is, they can't can they?

Because according to Islam and Muslims, the Quran is the last and the perfect unalterable word of god. 

aql_reason wrote:wrote: Yes the Quran is word of God. And interpretations are normal part of humans. No one agrees on the same things. The problem is extreme interpretations are generally not accepted. And Shias and Sunnis are not extreme. Just a few are. 

Stephen wrote:I know they have murdered in the name of their religious ideology and their gods, but MUSLIMS are still doing so. Not just to the Wester civilisations but their own people too.

aql_reason wrote:: Not just Muslims. Americans, Russians, Europeans are all killing following some ideology. 

Stephen wrote: And you keep ignoring the FACT that Christianity, like Judaism ,has dragged itself into the 21st century. Islam is stuck in the dark ages and cannot ever move forward, change or reform. THAT is a big problem for Muslims.

aql_reason wrote:Yes I have heard that one before. Yet, when you actually get down to it. You realize their beliefs are very similar to how secular governments work. 

You again are ignoring the point. Jesus the god of Christians has never commanded that his followers to go out into the world and kill others for simply not believing in him. But the god of the Quran does.

There is no compulsion [in choosing] religion, according to Islam. And Islamic history attests to that. Muslims benefited more from jizya anyway. 

FFS!  it hasn't reformed in any way at all. The Quran is believed by MUSLIMS to be the perfect unalterable word of god. Nothing has change since its conception in the 14th century.

What has Islam reformed from to?  What changes has it made? There was abrogation that made its ideology a thousand times more vile , barbaric and murderous and  than it was to begin with. 

It has changed. You are not aware of such facts. I'll give you an example, the ayatollah in Iran allowed sex-change surgeries recently. Many would call that progressive. 

But we are "specifically"  discussing religion. So  can you expand on that. Keeping in mind we are speaking religious practices. While also keeping in mind that Israel doesn't have the death penalty.

America does have death penalty. 

aql_reason wrote: In fact this shouldn't even be about Islam vs Christianity.

It should be religion vs. atheistic accusations on them lol

But its not , is it?   It is  titled "Islam vs. Christianity" LOL.

Because the discussion is Islam vs. Christianity. To atheists, religions don't make sense at all.

So why bother discussing if you can't agree on the premises. 

YouFound_Lxam wrote: As a Christain, the obvious contradictions between the Quran, and the Bible are very clear.#1

YouFound_Lxam wrote: I put it in a forum for everyone do discuss together and have conversations about.  

"If it makes sense is subjective".'

Richard Dawkins is a scientist and author and an atheist. He has books written about God and the Bible. 

Different  Christian factions disagree on the interpretation of the bible. MUSLMS believe that Jesus was only a prophet and NOT the son of god. Muslims believe that Jesus didn't die on the cross where Christians do.  I personally believe the Old Testament and all the characters within it. I don't believe the New Testament in the way it has come down to us and has been interpreted over time although I have good reason to believe a man called Jesus existed in 1st century Judaea.. This is before we get onto the beliefs of Hindus and Sheikhs. So you do see the problem concerning your argument for "Historians" and "Christians" being the arbiters  of biblical truth, don't you?

I agree. But you do understand the difference between someone being  "influenced" and that of  a forced ideology, don't you?

Which I as a free person refuse to accept. I am not a practicing Christian but give me Christianity over a barbaric enforced ideology any day.

Well then you are showing ignorance of your own intolerant  ideology:

And there it is again,  "just a tiny few". 😂 That will be the "just 1% of 1.7 billion Muslims" (17 million) that you mentioned earlier and the "tiny few" that Western MSM keep trying to convince us is only a hand full of crazy Muslims that can't do much harm.

Indeed, but you seem to keep forgetting that you are on a religion forum, and the particular ideology being discussed here is religious ideology and not political ideology.

 No. Islam has one goal. Islam is intolerant of other beliefs and here Church and state a separate. Unlike Islam. So lets not go around in circles on that one.

But haven't you just said that Islam is all about "submission"?  And Jizya was a tax on Christians and Jews aka Dhimmi  that happened to be living in any Muslim lands. It was a protection racket and still is.

And what would the  "1% tiny minority of the 1.7billion" Muslims call it?

But we are talking religion & RELIGIOUS practices and how Christianity and Judaism has brought itself into the 21st century. America does not sentence anyone to death because of their chosen religion. Have you not heard of the First Amendment. Its top of  list - the right to practice your religion freely.

I don't know what I am.

Muslims would call me an infidel or simply a filthy dirty Kufar. Some  Christians such as the Reverend Tradesecret would call me a heretic and has called me the "slime of Satan".    AND! "dumb as fuck". <<<<< FKN BIG mistake that turned out to be for the absolute bible ignorant TWAT!

Religion in itself, to me makes no sense, but there is a lot to the  bible once the surface has been scratched. but that is simply my opinion and I have no intentions of changing anyone's point of views or beliefs.

My problem has always been with the scriptures i.e the BIBLE. I don't fkn care what religion one chooses to follow as long as it has no baring on my life and the lives of my children and grandchildren.

No one has set out a single premise that I can see. The title simply states Islam V Christianity. where the author has simply stated ;

So, unless it went over your head completely, you and I have been having said suggested "conversation". 

So why don't you set out your premise from the side of Islam?  On why, if or not you believe  YouFound_Lxam is wrong or right. 

 Anyway. Nice discussion. You put your points as I have mine and  I have enjoyed it.

1. God is uncreated

2. Jesus was created (at least His body)

3. The Creator cannot be both creator and created

4. Jesus cannot be God as per step three. 

5. Therefore Jesus is not God and the Incarnation did not happen.

Before I move forward with my response, would you agree I am representing you accurately?

BTW, are you a Sunni Muslim or a Shia?