Neither angels nor Gods, but an alien team. The preface to an awaited fall of religions.

Author: IlDiavolo
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#61
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@Tradesecret
When we die we go up.
Upwards.
You or one  looks to the sky when ummmm, you refer to a dead person. 
God lives in the sky . 
Jesus lives skyward. 

Thats odd right ? 
Well it isn't,  butttttt, it is. 
But it isn't. 

Although thats a pre pagan thing,  you  can almost feel that everyone was a pagan one day. 

Whats your thoughts on the paganism /  or the pagan things found in Christianity. ?







 

#62
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@Stephen
Good stuff Stephen.

I see no reason why previously existent people shouldn't not have acquired an in depth knowledge of celestial activity.

After all, intellect and environmental and astrological science, must have been developing for 300,000 years or so.

In that sense 4400BC is not so long ago.



Though in terms of previously existent people from elsewhere, one would assume that viewed from elsewhere, celestial perspectives would be completely different.

So what I'm suggesting is that Sumerian knowledge of the heavens was Earth based knowledge, rather than heaven based knowledge.



Visitations still a valid hypothesis though.

But logically flawed.

Seeding more logical in my opinion.


Though perhaps we will be the ones who sow the seeds.
#63
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@Deb-8-a-bull
When we die we go up. 
Upwards.
I don't think so.  I think when people die they are either buried or cremated.  One is into the ground. I suppose the latter is upward and into the clouds.  

You or one  looks to the sky when ummmm, you refer to a dead person. 
God lives in the sky . 
Jesus lives skyward. 
I take the Hebrew view of heaven, not the Greek Version. 

In the Bible, heaven and earth are hand in hand.  Heaven is on earth.  In the Greek version, the two are separated.  Many Christians have followed the Greek version more than the Hebrew one.  So I don't as a general rule look to the sky when someone dies.  I think God lives everywhere. Not just in the sky but under the sky and even in Hell.  Jesus is currently in heaven. Heaven in my view is on the earth.  Matthew 28 and the book of Acts state that Jesus went up into the clouds. This might mean going up.  Especially if he was on a mountain. But many mountains in certain parts of the year have clouds or fog or mist on top of them.  A fog or mist is a cloud at the human earth level. 

Thats odd right ? 
Well it isn't,  butttttt, it is. 
But it isn't. 
What's odd? 

Although thats a pre pagan thing,  you  can almost feel that everyone was a pagan one day. 

Whats your thoughts on the paganism /  or the pagan things found in Christianity. ?
Thinking God is heaven in the sky is a pagan thing. I agree.  But it is not a Christian thing. 

Many Christians have embraced paganism in its various forms.  This occurs for various reasons.  Mostly it is because pagans become Christians and bring their baggage with them. Sometimes, Christians who want to be universalist and inclusive embrace what they think are good things in pagan culture and bring them to the church.  At other times, it is because pagan culture has existed for hundreds of years in the church and no one has noticed until later.  And sometimes it is because the church believes it has the right to assume all of the treasures of the world into the church.  

The fact is - sometimes it is difficult to differentiate what is pagan and what is not.  Prayer for instance is both pagan and Christian. Believing in a deity or multi-deities is both pagan and Christian.  Singing songs is both pagan and non-pagan. Some things are common to most if not all religions.  And some things are not. 

I note too that some festivals are held on the same date of the year.  This is hardly controversial although it is amazing how many people like to use it as a "gotcha" moment.  There are only 365 days in a year. A limited number. A limited number of months. A limited number of seasons and long or short days.  It stands to reason that some of these dates are going to be considered more sacred than others because of their scarcity.  Full Moons. Etc.  And just because a pagan religion decides to use the same day as another doesn't mean it has stolen it or taken it or even embraced it.  My nephew is born on Christmas Day. It doesn't mean he is a fake. Or that he has borrowed it just because it is Christmas Day.  There is a terrible fallacy that would suggest otherwise going on. 

I probably engage in pagan rituals and beliefs that I don't know are pagan. Most people might. Yet, I am open to changing things if necessary.  
#64
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@zedvictor4
Seeding more logical in my opinion. Though perhaps we will be the ones who sow the seeds.

Well that is where the Sumerians agree with you.... 

They have it that the Earth was already "seeded"  when the Elohim / gods "came down". But more interesting to me was  that the "gods" go further and were able to explain to the man (that they had engineered? ) how the Earth as we know and understand it  came about.

In as few words as possible, and from memory again;
They described it as a "battle of the heavenly bodies".  Earth, according to them, was a blue planet that is to say it was a solid mass that water covered. Collision/s with other/s "heavenly bodies" causing the water to be separated . The Marianas Trench leaps to mind. 
The Old Testamant states similar.  Only it says it was "god" that did it by his own fair hand. Genesis 1:7 .

And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. Genesis 1:7 .
  I think it is the a case of the planets  being  personified  simply for the reason that it was the easiest way of explaining to  their brand new creation? 

With that said and the personification of a planet in mind, Vic,  what if Gen1:7 was written like so?

And [God]:  another planet caused the firmament, to be divided  from the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. 


There have been quite a few articles publishes over recent years asking and suggesting that Earth was once a water covered planet.

Earth may have been a water world 3 billion years ago.

 



#65
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@IlDiavolo

IlDiavolo wrote @ Tradsecret: #56How do you think the ancient people would describe a pilot that get off an airplane that has just landed? Or even better, a man with a jet suit? Do they have wings?

IlDiavolo wrote @ Tradesecret: You did't answer my question. Do pilots have wings?

Or else, let's put it simpler. Does a man need wings to fly?#60
Tradesecret wrote: And how would they describe a person who looks like a man who has wings and flies? #57
A question answered with a question, Typical.
That's called -procrastination - where I come from. But a man that looks like a man is a MAN (or a robot). If I remember correctly the companion of Gilgamesh was described as a bloodless MAN?  I could have him confused with another character from Mesopotamia.

The bible states clearly that  "angels" and the "gods" were men.
And a MAN that has "wings" is called a Pilot - which indicates aircraft.

Your reply here #39 explains it all. And if "angels" are spiritual beings, why would they need wings?

There must be baby angels too as  some art depicts babies with wings. But without searching the corners of my memory, I don't recall any baby angels mentioned in the scriptures, they are all described as MEN.





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#66
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@Tradesecret
I'll answer your questions. Will you then please answer mine? 
What question? About cherubim and seraphim?

Tell me, what you understand in Psalm 18:10 "He mounted the cherubim and flew; he soared on the wings of the wind."? Does the wind have wings? Why would God need to "mount" a cherubim? Pretty weird, ain't it? 

In Ezekiel 10:15-17: "Then the cherubim rose upward. These were the living creatures I had seen by the Kebar River. When the cherubim moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the cherubim spread their wings to rise from the ground, the wheels did not leave their side. When the cherubim stood still, they also stood still; and when the cherubim rose, they rose with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in them." I don't know about you but to me the said cherubim is a machine because I've never seen it into an interaction with any biblical character like angels did. No talk, no nothing.

I can say it louder but not clearer.

So in the Bible, Elijah went up into heaven in a fiery chariot. And Jesus ascended into the clouds of heaven.  Jesus didn't have wings, but he was atypical. 
Elijah was abducted by an alien ship, so was Jesus, if he really existed of course.

The Ancient Hebrews described a bat as a bird because it flew.  They didn't use our scientific classification system.  They had their own.  
What? Hebrews knew very well that bats weren't birds. Check Isaiah 2:20: "In that day people will throw away to the moles and bats their idols of silver and idols of gold, which they made to worship" A bat is like a mole, a mammal. Ancient hebrews were primitives compared to us, but not stupid.
#67
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Arrrr. Religion .
Angels and four armed people,  
Whats next flying horses. 

Hang on a sec. 
Flying horse sounds like flying sorcers.  
Maybe. Just maybe

When God was telling matt and john and the rest of the gang shit to right down for him, maybe some stuff got ummmm, miss in terped. 
Well It could of. 

No?

Remember playing Chinese wispers . 
It was always so funny hey. 


Now Picture a young person turning to god before google. 
 
Hang the fuck on. 
Do ya reckon a Christian has ever googled something. 

They aint no use for google when you got a bible. 

As a agnostic.   
Agnostic meaning . (  atheist /  anti theist. )   on this site. As we alllllllllllll are. 
I haven't got any morals. 
Not a one.

But nowwwww. 
Im now gonna google morals , and adopt them. 


I might even google.   ( examples  of  °°° really really  good morals  °°° ) 
And just "adopt" them ones. 
That would trump mere bible morals. 

It would suck if there was a real good ummm " moral " act that was on the google but not in the bible.
Christians would be like ,
fuck. God should of said that one also. 
The christians  won't be able to "adopt"  it unfortunately. 

I myself have " adopted " some bible morals. 
Yep.
Thats how we atheists fly. 
Atheists are allowed this luxury. 

Hang on a sec , let me check that first. 
Are atheists allowed to believe in the "christians morals" 
●●●●●●●•    Running check.   ●●●●●●●●●

Yes. 
Fewww ,  atheists are allowed. 

I squat down and place my head between my knees, 
then i simply fall foward.  
I just fall foward. 
Well thats how i roll 



#68
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Universally, "up" is an irrelevant concept.

Heaven would be elsewhere.

Though I'm guessing that our residual energy is stored in the ionosphere.


People have a tendency to guess all sorts of sh*t.

Sort of, I'm guessing that it was a GOD from up there what did it.

So I'm also guessing that we need to mumble stuff and sing songs for him.*

And maybe also build special pointy upwards buildings, so that our mumbling and sing songs can be heard by GOD.


*Him...Men had a tendency to guess this sh*t.

Women just guessed that after they had done all the chores it would be sex time.


Hmmm...Morals.

I can fu*k anything that moves and you look after the kids and cook the dinner.

And if you move and someone fu*ks you, me and my mates will throw stones at you.

Because I'm guessing that is what GOD would want.
#69
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@zedvictor4
Imagine having to pretend you dislike homosexual. 
That wouldn't and couldn't be easy.    

Id  just wave your fist in the air and say .  Dam you homosexuals. 
You are wrong.  Vile , evil things 

Imagine having to concern yourself about homosexual relations and shit. 


I bet they sometimes they forget that they dont like homosexuals. 

Like ya in the middle of sucking on a nice big fat cock and it dawns on ya. 
Oh fuck . 
Thats right. 
Homosexual stuff is fround upon. 
My bad. 

Imagine having to learn , practice and remember your "morals" 
Be it conchencely. 

Imagine If i was a Muslim and you were a Christian Zed. 
Id have to , and i probably would,   lessen my liking of you.  
And the ressoning for having to do this is because.   Im a Muslim your a Christian.  

Believing in god looks fucking difficult. 

 One surly couldn't Believe in god 100 % 
I will except,  one could 83.7% TRULY BELIVE IN GOD. 
no more but. 

I shit you not. 
It looks like , 
If you Belive in god you join a religious group. 
Im not kidding. 

Ive been searching for the link . 
Beliving in a god thing. 
And
Being in a religious group.

Im almost sure they have something to do with each other. 
Again.
There is something to do with believing in god and being in a religious group. 

I'll get to the bottom of this Zed , i just know it. 






#70
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What comes first. 

Beliving in God .
Orrrrr.
Joining and or being in a religious group.  ?

Imagine if beliving in god come first. ( thats fucking stupid ) 
Imag8ne if joining a religious group came first.  (  thats fucking stupid ) 

Zed. I know you man.
Smart as fuck but a poor religious group pickerere.
 
I know for a fact that you would choose the wrong religious group to join over 10 times before you joined the correct one. 

When it comes to picking a religious group you would suck big time. 
Im sorry to have to tell you this. 

Imagine thinking your going to nail it first pick. 
Bammmmmmmmm.  Im a Catholic.  
Say no more .
End of fucking story. 


#71
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@IlDiavolo
I'll answer your questions. Will you then please answer mine? 
What question? About cherubim and seraphim?

well yes, that would be a start. 

Tell me, what you understand in Psalm 18:10 "He mounted the cherubim and flew; he soared on the wings of the wind."? Does the wind have wings? Why would God need to "mount" a cherubim? Pretty weird, ain't it? 
In my opinion, a reference to the Cherubim has a couple of primary objects. Firstly, as a protector, see Genesis 3:24. the Cherubim protected the Tree of Life. Secondly, as a reference to the Ark of the Covenant. In Psalm 18, the Psalm itself expresses that this Psalm was written by David. He wrote it in response to the fact that the Lord delivered him from his enemy, King Saul. It's entirely relevant. 

In this chapter, it is my view that David has gone to the Ark of the Covenant and prayed.   And what we see in v. 10 is a response to his prayer. Hence your questions make no sense. The wind has no wings.  God doesn't need to mount a cherub. that would be weird. But since the text is not saying any of those things, we don't even need to engage with these things. 


In Ezekiel 10:15-17: "Then the cherubim rose upward. These were the living creatures I had seen by the Kebar River. When the cherubim moved, the wheels beside them moved; and when the cherubim spread their wings to rise from the ground, the wheels did not leave their side. When the cherubim stood still, they also stood still; and when the cherubim rose, they rose with them, because the spirit of the living creatures was in them." I don't know about you but to me the said cherubim is a machine because I've never seen it into an interaction with any biblical character like angels did. No talk, no nothing.

I can say it louder but not clearer.
Why is it a machine? There is nothing there to suggest such a thing.  Don't let your understanding of today catch you off guard. Think about how an ancient person was looking at something at the time.  

So in the Bible, Elijah went up into heaven in a fiery chariot. And Jesus ascended into the clouds of heaven.  Jesus didn't have wings, but he was atypical. 
Elijah was abducted by an alien ship, so was Jesus, if he really existed of course.
Nope. There is absolutely no evidence for such a thing.  Either in Elijah's time or Jesus'. Both times were well before such things had even become part of common thought and imagination.   Why aren't there any other such vehicles that anybody has discovered? Because there was never such a thing. 


The Ancient Hebrews described a bat as a bird because it flew.  They didn't use our scientific classification system.  They had their own.  
What? Hebrews knew very well that bats weren't birds. Check Isaiah 2:20: "In that day people will throw away to the moles and bats their idols of silver and idols of gold, which they made to worship" A bat is like a mole, a mammal. Ancient hebrews were primitives compared to us, but not stupid.
Read Genesis and Exodus again.  The bat is described as a bird.  The language of appearance ruled the day. 
#72
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A Christian religious orrentation day would be handy. 

Im guessing ther is over 20 diffrent types of Christians.

I dare not google ( how many types of Christians are there ?  ) 
It would probably say something ridiculous like.
there is over 100 diffrent types of Christians.  
And that would make a total mockery of the religion. 
Im not here to do that. 

If youasked the bible how many types of Christians are there. 
The bible would say nothing . ( BLANK ) 
As the bible is a book , and books dont talk. 

I dare someone to say .   SKITZISUM . 


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#73
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@Tradesecret
In my opinion, a reference to the Cherubim has a couple of primary objects. Firstly, as a protector, see Genesis 3:24. the Cherubim protected the Tree of Life. Secondly, as a reference to the Ark of the Covenant. In Psalm 18, the Psalm itself expresses that this Psalm was written by David. He wrote it in response to the fact that the Lord delivered him from his enemy, King Saul. It's entirely relevant. 

In this chapter, it is my view that David has gone to the Ark of the Covenant and prayed.   And what we see in v. 10 is a response to his prayer. Hence your questions make no sense. The wind has no wings.  God doesn't need to mount a cherub. that would be weird. But since the text is not saying any of those things, we don't even need to engage with these things. 
Let's go slowly.

Psalm 18:10 "He mounted the cherubim and flew; he soared on the wings of the wind."

The "he" refers to Yahve, so if David says Yahve mounts the cherubim (or "ride the cherubim" as it is in other biblical versions), it clearly says that he is getting on the cherubim as if the cherubim were something that flies, like a pegasus, a helicopter, or a UFO. So, what we can infer from the text is that Yahve is part of the Elohim or alien team that we were talking about, and the cherubim is the alien ship, unless you have a more convincing argument for that.

And of course the wind has no wings. It's just the way the ancient people understood their reality, or a wrong translations.

Why is it a machine? There is nothing there to suggest such a thing.  Don't let your understanding of today catch you off guard. Think about how an ancient person was looking at something at the time.  
I'm going to remind you the link I provided in #53:


Based on this link, we could conclude the following:

1. Angels have no wings. The bible says nothing about angels with wings. The wing is just an add on from some artists who thought angels have wings just because they can fly. The wings are just part of the urban folklore.
2. The only ones that have wings in the bible are the cherubim and seraphim, but the bible doesn't say explicitly that they are angels.
3. As the church put wings on angels, they automatically categorize the cherubim and seraphim as angels. Although they are not because the bible doesn't mention they are angels or they are part of an angelical hierarchy. This is just a made-up stuff of the roman catholic church.
4. The cherubim and seraphim are machines because this is what the bible suggests. Angels look like men and interact like men, characteristics that the cherubim and seraphim lack of. So, if it's something that doesn't talk, doesn't walk, doesn't fuck, doesn't eat (like the angels), but only flies and protects a position (as if it were a war machine), we can conclude then that it's an object made for a specific goal.

Nope. There is absolutely no evidence for such a thing.  Either in Elijah's time or Jesus'. Both times were well before such things had even become part of common thought and imagination.   Why aren't there any other such vehicles that anybody has discovered? Because there was never such a thing. 
Well, it depends on what you want to do. You either study the bible with the correct translation to know the truth or keep believing what a church full of sodomites wants you to believe. It's your call and I really couldn't care less about it.
#74
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@IlDiavolo
Let's go slowly.

Psalm 18:10 "He mounted the cherubim and flew; he soared on the wings of the wind."

The "he" refers to Yahve, so if David says Yahve mounts the cherubim (or "ride the cherubim" as it is in other biblical versions), it clearly says that he is getting on the cherubim as if the cherubim were something that flies, like a pegasus, a helicopter, or a UFO. So, what we can infer from the text is that Yahve is part of the Elohim or alien team that we were talking about, and the cherubim is the alien ship, unless you have a more convincing argument for that.

And of course the wind has no wings. It's just the way the ancient people understood their reality, or a wrong translations.

Thanks for the interesting slant you put to it. Of course it makes no sense whatsoever in the context. But hey, if it helps you sleep at night, go for it. 

I guess you understand what poetry is. And metaphorical language.  V. 8 for example says that "smoke rose from his nostrils. Consuming fire from his mouth." Gee, that sounds like a dragon.  "He parted the heavens." Was it the north side or the west side he parted? Or perhaps it might mean something else? And in v.11 immediately after the one you are so fond of.  "he made the darkness his covering, his canopy all around him".  

The Cherubim are used here in the context of heavenly beings. They are not being referred to as machines. What fanciful nonsense to suggest that here in the midst of all of this imagery of God and his magnificence, that there is a reference to a machine. God doesn't need to mount an angel or a machine. There are times where he is said to ride clouds. Do you think they are machines hidden in clouds do you? 

You are the one who talks about what translations - as per normal - without evidence. 


Why is it a machine? There is nothing there to suggest such a thing.  Don't let your understanding of today catch you off guard. Think about how an ancient person was looking at something at the time.  
I'm going to remind you the link I provided in #53:


Based on this link, we could conclude the following:

1. Angels have no wings. The bible says nothing about angels with wings. The wing is just an add on from some artists who thought angels have wings just because they can fly. The wings are just part of the urban folklore.
2. The only ones that have wings in the bible are the cherubim and seraphim, but the bible doesn't say explicitly that they are angels.
3. As the church put wings on angels, they automatically categorize the cherubim and seraphim as angels. Although they are not because the bible doesn't mention they are angels or they are part of an angelical hierarchy. This is just a made-up stuff of the roman catholic church.
4. The cherubim and seraphim are machines because this is what the bible suggests. Angels look like men and interact like men, characteristics that the cherubim and seraphim lack of. So, if it's something that doesn't talk, doesn't walk, doesn't fuck, doesn't eat (like the angels), but only flies and protects a position (as if it were a war machine), we can conclude then that it's an object made for a specific goal.
Incorrect.  that link was as dodgy this time as the last time I looked at it.  

Angels do have wings. The Cherubim and the Seraphim are angels. Not all angels are the same. Not all angels have wings. The seraphim in Isaiah 6 are living creatures. two wings were to cover their faces. Why the need if they are not living creatures? Two to cover their feet. Why is it necessary to cover feet if they are machines. And two to fly.  Even here, we are told that not all wings are used to fly. And more than that - the Seraphim in Isaiah 6 talk.  Machines don't talk. They don't care about the holiness of God. v.7 says the seraph spoke to Isaiah.   The tradition for the Cherubim and Seraphim as angels goes right back into the ancient Hebrew times. 

It's not made up by the Catholic church, it goes way back.  Angels can look like man. this doesn't stop cherubim from being angels. Angels don't have sex. I don't know if they eat. Although it seems that some appear to eat. 

Yet, given that the default position must be given more weight, then it is up to you to prove that cheribum and seraphim are not angels. That link doesn't do that. It just ridicules the idea. But without any substantial evidence. 


Nope. There is absolutely no evidence for such a thing.  Either in Elijah's time or Jesus'. Both times were well before such things had even become part of common thought and imagination.   Why aren't there any other such vehicles that anybody has discovered? Because there was never such a thing. 
Well, it depends on what you want to do. You either study the bible with the correct translation to know the truth or keep believing what a church full of sodomites wants you to believe. It's your call and I really couldn't care less about it.
You keep going on about some correct translation.  Either produce it - or stop referring to it.  And at least try and understand the difference between translation and interpretation.  You sound like a conspiracy theorist.  the church is not full of sodomites any more than any other organisation.  Such myths don't help your cause. 

#75
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Homo-sapiens with labels.

Making labels is the Number 1 human obsession.


A Labellist Zedku for Deb.

Deb,

Zed,

Aussie,

Brit.


Christian,

Muslim,

Jew

And shit.


Gay,

Les,

Straight,

And Bi.


Omni,

Veggie

Vegan

Meat Pie.
#76
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@zedvictor4
Thats a nice one Zed.
One of me faves. 

' starts ringing bell  ' 
OK
Come along.
Come along you lot. 
Everyone in ya groups. 
' Claps ' 
Hurry up.
' ring ring ring ring '
GET IN YOUR GROUPS.  
LOOK IM NOT GONNA TELL YOU AGAIN. 

Its all good now.,
Everybody's in there correct group. 

' whistle ' 
Play ball. 

Hey Speaking of play ball. 
Imagine a four armed goal keeper. 
That would be handy. 
Or.
Or.
A omnikeeper.  Always knows where the balls going. 
God would be a awsome goal keep. 

But God doesn't play games. 
His to busy watching us and keeping all of our scores. 
If he wasnt watchin zed , i could like real quickly suck a dick , and he'd be none the wiser. 
I wouldn't do this buttttttttt, i could.  

He'd wanna keep a cloes eye on me. 
I can sin in a sec. 
Im a multiple sinner. 
A mass sinner. 
A serial sinner if you will.  
In half a hour . 
God would be like this counting goods v bads
Anddddd +1 
1
+1
+2 
+3
+2
+3
+4
+3
+2
+3
+2
+1
1
-1
And in the midst of this .
Sarah just stole a block of chocolate.  
1
+1
+2
I could go on , but you get the jist. 

Thats alot of work keeping scores for one bloke. 
Butttttt, god has to do this ,
HE HAS TO. 
other wise ya end up with  +35 sin sinners slipping through the cracks and ending up in ye old heaven.  
And a + 35 sin sinner loose in heaven is not good. 

Order . 
Order.
Order. 

Now get back in ya group and stay. 
sit. 



#77
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He is certainly not jovial . 
Well not from what I've witnessed. 
Jehovial.
Jovial witness. 
#78
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Sinner sinner, pork chops for dinner. 

( my next thought was ) 
There needs to be a place where one can do this sin thing.
like a city, 
You know? 
a city in which one can sin. And they dont get put on your tally. 
We could call it like ummmm, shit i dunno. 
○○ Godfree ○○   
or something like that. 
The sleepy little Town of.  Sinlessnessness land. 

I Start thinking why do they call sin city , sin city. 
Thats the opposite hey. 
Its because heaps of bad shit happens there. 

But To put it bluntly.  
We need like a place ( of a decent area) a place that god can't see.?

Hummmmmm.

So A place that god can't see hey ????
A place that god can't see. 
Hummmm

 
Now Tell me your first thought didn't  involve 1000 □ square hectares of aluminum foil.  

If you did think that. Thats amateur hour .
We alllllll know God can see through aluminum foil. 
( Quickly.   someone hit me with a scripture for conformation of this  .  )  
God can see through aluminum foil because it says so in. 
( ___insert name____ ) insert numbers   □□ :  □□ 

Now Im not gonna waste my time on trying to figure out what it is that god can not see thru. 
Asssssss. God sees through everything. 
However. 
However.
I have a suspicion,  and i highly fucking doubt it , 
 thatttttt .  god can see through a forskin .
Surly he cant. 
Were in the bible does it say.   GOD CAN IN FACT SEE THRU FORSKINS .
Tell me. 

Point it out to me. 
Yeah didn't think so. 

So. To reute 
Re ute ar 8 .
How do you spell that. 
Reautearate 
Reu. 

Fuck it. 
To re -cap. 

A covering of forskin.
Thats four forskin walls.
Forskin celling.  
Forskin doors.
Etc. 
Ex set ara. 

Now im not gonna bother coming up with a dozen fancy names for this place 
Id call this place . 
The forskin building.    

Other then that. 
I'm stummped on what god can and can not see thru.  

Ideas ?  ? 





 
#79
Stephen
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@IlDiavolo


Tradesecret wrote:
I take the Hebrew view of heaven, not the Greek Version.#63 
Perhaps what might be helpful if you can show how the Isaiah HebrewText has changed?  That might be nice.  If they are notwings, then what are they?#50 
And since there are two aspects here it is important that every modern translation of the bible- uses the same underlying text.  It is primarily the KJV which actually uses a different underlying text.#31
This will be the KJV bible that is "unshakeable" where the Reverend Tradesecret says " -  the authors are "crystal clear" #55     "aboutwhat they want to communicate".  #62

and the same bible that is:      

Tradesecret wrote: Themost authoritative source is the Bible.   #54

This from the same man that admits that the bible was written,  in his "expert"  opinion, by


Tradesecret wrote:"Theinfallible God [that]used fallible men to write his word to us - usingtheir fallible tools and minds but nevertheless speaking the mind andword of God". #9
And tells us that;

Tradesecret wrote:TheBible is a primary source for me. In ancient times, God spoke throughthe prophets, in the last days he spoke through his son.#31


Tradesecret wrote: Everyword of God remains flawless.#49


but then also tells us;

I never take the bible literal#50

And adds;

Tradesecret wrote: "Iam comfortable with our English bible translators and their attemptsto convey the right balance as they understand it".#39

You have to ask yourself then why demand proof and evidence in Hebrew or from the Hebrew text, when the bible written in English is so "crystal clear, perfect, flawless,  unambiguous, and the most  authoritative primary source" that it  is able to be the most trusted of all biblical literature  ..... although written by "fallible men"  but  "never taken literal"? 

 So you can see what it is you are up against when conversing with such a contradictory clown in denial of the BIBLICAL facts, IlDiavolo
#80
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Bezalel is said to have made Cherubim as was  Solomon.



#81
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@Deb-8-a-bull
He doesn't need to see.

He knows Deb.

Because you give the game away.

You've got to work out how to sin without thinking.
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#82
IlDiavolo
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@Tradesecret
Do you think they are machines hidden in clouds do you? 
Well, it's not what I think, it's what people report. Stories like these are very similar to what the bible tells, which is the reason we conclude that the angels and "Gods" of the bible are actually the aliens of today. Or do you still think invisible beings will show up to get rid of the people that don't believe in your bulllshit, like me? You wish!! Hahahaha.


You are the one who talks about what translations - as per normal - without evidence. 
It would be useless to try to convince you, being you a dogmatic person that believes english is the original language of the bible. Lol. You know the original version is in hebrew and aramaic, don't you? Did you care to know what this version says? You'd better not, it would be too much for you.

Angels do have wings.
For statements like this, despite the given solid evidence, is that I don't want to discuss with zealots like you, it's a worthless endeavour. From what I've seen, I guess you're catholic, right? Did you know a catholic expert confirmed that "angels have no wings"?


Feel free to say whatever you want because I won't reply your posts anymore. You can be thinking I can't stand you but the reality is that I pity you, I wouldn't like to be in your shoes, seriously, that would be really sad.
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#83
IlDiavolo
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@Stephen
So you can see what it is you are up against when conversing with such a contradictory clown in denial of the BIBLICAL facts, IlDiavolo
I understand now why you and BrotherD keep bashing this little man. It's really annoying to read stubborn people like him, it's like dealing with a flat earther. Lol.
#84
Tradesecret
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@IlDiavolo
Do you think they are machines hidden in clouds do you? 
Well, it's not what I think, it's what people report. Stories like these are very similar to what the bible tells, which is the reason we conclude that the angels and "Gods" of the bible are actually the aliens of today. Or do you still think invisible beings will show up to get rid of the people that don't believe in your bulllshit, like me? You wish!! Hahahaha.
Aliens don't exist. 


You are the one who talks about what translations - as per normal - without evidence. 
It would be useless to try to convince you, being you a dogmatic person that believes english is the original language of the bible. Lol. You know the original version is in hebrew and aramaic, don't you? Did you care to know what this version says? You'd better not, it would be too much for you.
So I take it you don't have an answer. Rather you will simply use what is called ad hominem attacks.  Unlike you, I do care what the Hebrew and the Greek say. Or the Aramaic. So give it to me rather than playing games. I don't think you actually have an answer. So let me call your bluff. 

Angels do have wings.
For statements like this, despite the given solid evidence, is that I don't want to discuss with zealots like you, it's a worthless endeavour. From what I've seen, I guess you're catholic, right? Did you know a catholic expert confirmed that "angels have no wings"?
nope, not catholic. Don't respect the pope either.  Still, that won't stop you from continuing to misrepresent me or the truth. Prove that seraphim and cherubim are not angels. Come on I dare you. Sits down and reads a newspaper. Doesn't really expect a reply. 



Feel free to say whatever you want because I won't reply your posts anymore. You can be thinking I can't stand you but the reality is that I pity you, I wouldn't like to be in your shoes, seriously, that would be really sad.
Yes, this is the typical response I expect from people who when confronted with providing evidence - never do. Pity me all you like. You can't provide real proof.  I am not a flat earther.   Typical ad hominem nonsense - why should I expect anything else? 

#85
Stephen
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@IlDiavolo
So you can see what it is you are up against when conversing with such a contradictory clown in denial of the BIBLICAL facts, IlDiavolo
I understand now why you and BrotherD keep bashing this little man
I don't speak for the Brother D. He is clever enough to argue his own corner. 

The reason I posted #82 wash simply to show you what a contradictory clown he is when the situation suites him. 

His claims of how flawless, perfect, clear , unambiguous and understandable  the BIBLE is in English  on the one hand,  while warning the BIBLE is not to be taken literally and is "not an easy book but a hard book to read".
But  states to you:  I take the Hebrew view of heaven, not the Greek Version.#63 <<<<<<<<<< this is a perfect example of a pseudo intellectual, that is to say a person who wants to be thought of as having a lot of intelligence and knowledge but who is not really intelligent or knowledgeable at all.

Yet here he is claiming that beings that the BIBLE clearly described as men, literally have wings. Here's a simply question that you should have asked the clown:
Why would god need his feet washing? Genesis 18:4

And the reason I - to use your word - "bash" the Reverend Tradesecret is because he made the silly and haughty schoolboy error of calling me, someone that he had never met, among many other nasty things   " stupid and dumb as Fuck". #161 and a complete "idiot"  #186 . So I simply set out to prove which of  us was the real
 " complete idiot" and who it really is that is "dumb as fuck".
 And I only "bash" the Reverend Tradesecret if and when I have good reason to do so and when he himself presents the opportunity... which, to my amusement, is quite often.


It's really annoying to read stubborn people like him, it's like dealing with a flat earther. Lol.

I don't find it annoying in the slightest. He has made many statements on your thread that I could have easily dismissed him for. Such as this shite:

Tradesecret wrote: I probably engage in pagan rituals and beliefs that I don't know arepagan. Most people might. Yet, I am open to changing things ifnecessary. #63

Do you not see what is wrong with that statement? THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ from an ordained minister of the clergy that preaches to "a congregation of over300 worshipers" admitting to not knowing "IF or NOT" he is practicing pagan rituals!!!?  You should have asked the clown why he thinks that? And why he doesn't know one way or the other ?

And this:
Tradesecret wrote: God doesn't need to mount a cherub. that would be weird. But sincethe text is not saying any of those things, we don't even need toengage with these things. #71
THIS^^^^ is the bible denying Reverend at his best. The BIBLE text clearly does say those things> "He mounted the cherubim and flew;
 he soared on the wings of the wind" Psalm 18:9-10

You see;  after all his claims concerning  his exemplary  theological/biblical training and his status within the clergy of being an ordained "Pastor and a Chaplain to his countries armed forces" and his incredible and amazing ability to be able to "memorise the bible backwards and forwards from very early age" and ability to  "translate ancient languages into English", I think that that he is the perfect nomination  for anyone that deems themselves to be "dumb as fuck" and a complete "idiot" when it comes to the biblical and theological matters , don't you, IlDiavolo ?  After all, this is the man that also claims to " charge universities to train and tutor their students" on such matters...... which brings me to scratch my head and wonder why the hell he blocked me!😂
  ...........................

Try reading Divine Encounters Zecharia Sitchen. I believe it is right up your street and you'll enjoy it.




#86
Deb-8-a-bull
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@IlDiavolo
You say you understand now.  
Whats happening man ? 
Im fucked if i can see it. 

I see tradesecret,   a nice calm manned , aparantly  knowledgeable , good type of person. 
Thats Apparent.  

All i can take out of it is , again the "apparent"  fact that they , they being ( tradesecret )  ummm,
" fronts " a church of around 300. 

This seems to be the center point .

So be it that , they are angered by the ummm , the incorrect teaching these 300 are being taught.
And Like Stephen and Brody feel they are fighting the fight for the 300. 

Tell me why they " bash " ? 

The only time we've witnessed this issss. 
MAD CORNISH BIKER BASHING.    
You guys remember this right? 

Thus brinbing us to two words.
( Jehovah  witnesses ) 

We know Jehovahs are as ruthless as scientologists when it comes to "excomunication "
Ex -comunicarto  cee. 
Cee. 

Sooooo In short. 
Stephen and Brother D are current ,    jahova witnesesesees. 

And Tradesecret being a excommunicated JW. 

This is Brother D's full time job , and has been for 5 maybe 10 plus years.
Hes a rubbisher.  
And a real nice one to. 

But What makes it strange is.   
The appearance that , Stephen got employed somehow. 
Not directly from Brother D butttt from whom brother D rubbishers.

Butttttt. 
It fells like Stephen somehow is a chat bot. 
A chat bot that has un evolved into a. 
un updated,  ghost chat Bot.     
His adrift.    

We could probably  prove this  by asking a rightly phrased question or two. 

Stephen doesn't  knows that Zeds extremely knowledgeable. 
He register Intelligence very poorly

Stephen will then reply with . 
 Well I know your as dumb as fuck deb. 
Is that about right on the " register "  .   

To wich ill answer .
Ok , ok 
Ok . You got me there you smart arse prick. 
Then ill just pretend it didn't effect me and move on. 


When a JW attacks a JW
It looks like this. 
First and for most they attack the excommies character. 
Sexulizing.  
Hes a she. 
They've had homosexual sex before .
They've  touched kids before, 

Then they attack the excoms intelligence . 
And they do this incorrectly and mythodicaly .
Tirlesly,  Neverending fucking ly. 
For years. 
Thus collecting " brownie " points from the very  "TOP OF WATCHTOWER " 
They recive "points"  for doing this. 
Watchtower points.  
#87
Deb-8-a-bull
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@IlDiavolo

Lemmy got targeted last week because. 
He is smart. 
Im not kidding.
That post directed at him the other week was to find things that he disagree with them about. 
And if you disagree with the Brother D , you are asdumb as fuck. 
Then the barrage starts. 
The way one copes with the onslaught is key factor to how long and how harsh the attack is. 

Unfortunately for me . 
Im not smart enough and not religious  to wast attack time on.

I've longed to be attack by The Brother D
That bastard wouldn't even bother reading a post of mine. 

I wouldn't mind being attacked by anyone really.





#88
Stephen
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Stephen doesn't  knows that Zeds extremely knowledgeable. 

I have no reason to believe he is not and many reasons to believe he is, Deb.


Stephen and Brother D are current ,    jahova witnesesesees. 

Well I can't say I witnessed anything Deb.  The accident must have happened before I come across the scene.

The Reverend got the attention he so craved , Deb. Only, it wasn't the kind of attention he carved.
#89
Deb-8-a-bull
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I always fall for bots .
Bots seem to like me.


I once found myself in a year long love affair with a bot.
A real fucking cute bot.   

Hey Imagine if there was one of these little Bot Bots in this here , Forum,  Religion.

We are that close around here  that You guys would abmit to being a bot if you where a bot hey. ?   So would. 

Imagine finding out one day 5 years into a relationship , that a sibling of yours  and two cousins ,  are actually nothing more then,
☆☆☆☆   PRO BOTS 7900cs. ☆☆☆☆¿
Their like the basic ones.
Oh. They come with a little extra ram but they are now obsolete.  

You fall in  LOVE with THESE GUYS . 
There your blood relations,   they are your family.
You cared for them .  

 And Allllll this time They really  thought nothing more then.  1001011011000101100011000000110. About you. 
And one of thought you were 100011011010010110 
1001111010.

¤¤¤¤¤¤¤     You got bot. ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤

New rule .
Religion forum # 2719
  If you are a bot you gotta say your a bot.
Otherwise its Inbotament  ,
i mean entrapment.  

Or don't  you believe in bots.
A  (  insert label  ) 


#90
Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
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@IlDiavolo


.
IlDiavolo,

Understand this very simple godly premise, if Miss Tradesecret was a TRUE Christian, she would only sit upon the sidelines of this esteemed Religion Forum and just watch the conversation and be SILENT, period!  The factual biblical reasoning for this godly premise is as follows:


1. Miss Tradesecret is a FEMALE in gender as shown in her biography:   https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEGZNA4

2.  Miss Tradesecret's current biography says she is an "UNKNOWN," where she doesn't know what gender she truly is as shown in this link; https://www.debateart.com/members/Tradesecret   Therefore, we revert back to her being a FEMALE like she said she was in the link above!

2. When Miss Tradesecret shows to be a FEMALE in her biography, then this Jesus inspired passage comes into effect: "Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain SILENT. (1 Timothy 2:11-14)

4.  Not only is Miss Tradesecret not to be within this Religion Forum, other than to just watch on the sidelines where she belongs, she is NOT to teach or exercise authority over man, but to remain SILENT as Jesus said in the above passage!

5.  Furthermore, Miss Tradesecret goes directly against Jesus' true words within the scriptures by being a FEMALE Reverend within a church where she has allegedly 300 kool aid swallowers in her congregation as shown herewith:   "The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." (1 Corinthians 14:34-35). 


Therefore, Miss Tradesecret is an outright SHAM to Christianity as the above FACTS show her to be in this revealing post, therefore Miss Tradesecret "assumes she knows more than Jesus' word in the passages shown above, NOT!  Therefore, remind her of these FACTS when needed!


NEXT 2ND CLASS WOMAN LIKE "MISS TRADESECRET" THAT SLAPS JESUS IN THE FACE BECAUSE SHE IS NOT BIBLICALLY TO BE WITHIN THIS FORUM TALKING ABOUT CHRISTIANITY TO BEGIN WITH, WILL BE ...?

.