Question for Trump Supporters

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#1

Double_R

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Double_R

11.14.2023 06:02PM

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The big headlines of the current news cycle include Trump calling his political advasaries vermin (echoing Hitler and Mussolini), and his behind the scenes plan to rid the government of all civil servants and replace them with loyalists who will do whatever he wants.

This comes in the wake of Trump mocking the brutal attack on the husband of a political rival Trump has rhetorically attacked many times before, calling for the execution of a top general over charges of not obeying his presidential will, and encouraging police to shoot shoplifters on the spot, not to mention January 6th. There is of course, so much more I could mention but I'd be here all day.

My question is to anyone who would even consider voting for Trump, regardless of whether it's for Trump or against Biden (or whoever became the democratic nominee)...

Do you believe Trump is a fascist and/or an authoritarian? Yes or No?

This is not a Trump vs Biden thread so please save your whataboutisms. This is a very simple question, you either see this, or on some level you believe Trump actually cares about things like democracy, the rule of law, the strength of US institutions, etc. Which is it? And if not, perhaps you can enlighten the rest of us as to how his words/actions are being so badly taken out of context. But if you're going to go that route, please answer the question first.

#2

Lemming

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Lemming

11.14.2023 06:09PM

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@Double_R

"Do you believe Trump is a fascist and/or an authoritarian? Yes or No?" - Double_R

Yes and No,

If he could get away with it, yes,

But I don't think he's able to do so much as he 'might do, if he had complete power.

I view him more as a 'potential fascist/authoritarian.

#3

FLRW

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11.14.2023 06:24PM

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@Double_R

In 2022, 41% of U.S. adults identified as independents, 28% as Republicans and 28% as Democrats. 48 percent of Republicans are for Trump.

This means in the next election Trump will get (.48x28) 13.44 percent of the national vote.

#4

Best.Korea

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Best.Korea

11.14.2023 06:25PM

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11.14.2023 06:25PM

No. I dont think he is fascist. He just has mentality of a toddler.

#5

Sidewalker

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11.14.2023 06:28PM

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@Double_R

Do you believe Trump is a fascist and/or an authoritarian? Yes or No?

I believe Trump supporters are fully aware that it is fascism they are advocating, but not one will ever admit it.

Trump hasn't hidden it, listen to a rally, fascism is practically his campaign promise.

He's offering nothing in the way of policy, all he's offering is vengeance and retribution, political violence and White supremacy, and it is red meat for his rabid supporters, he is promising mayhem and destruction because that is what they want.

I don't believe they are too stupid to see it because he hugged a flag and got them to throw a collective hissy fit because a football player took a knew during the national anthem, they know what they are doing, but they will never admit it.

#6

Greyparrot

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11.14.2023 06:42PM

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@Double_R

Is this the new MSM narrative? that Trump is literally Hitler?

Why even bother.

#7

Greyparrot

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11.14.2023 06:44PM

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@Lemming

But I don't think he's able to do so much as he 'might do, if he had complete power.

2016 proved he wasn't able to do much at all, even with a Republican Congress.

People worry over the dumbest shit. The real enemies of the people are the elites in DC that aren't even on a democratic ballot...

#8

Best.Korea

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Best.Korea

11.14.2023 07:00PM

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@Greyparrot

If you dont want for Trump to be dictator, why do you call him "God Emperor Trump"?

Thats how dictators are called. Do you support dictatorship? Do you want for Trump to have unlimited power? 🧐

#9

Greyparrot

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11.14.2023 07:03PM

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@Best.Korea

It doesn't matter what I want. Unlimited power is not achieved through elections in this country.

Another big lie spread around for decades by those with the real power.

#10

Best.Korea

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11.14.2023 07:04PM

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@Greyparrot

Praise Lord Biden!

Topic's author

#11

Double_R

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11.14.2023 07:04PM

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@Greyparrot

Is this the new MSM narrative? that Trump is literally Hitler?

No one said Trump is literally Hitler, that's just a strawman set up to distract from the fact that people like you will not address the question honestly.

#12

Greyparrot

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11.14.2023 07:05PM

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@Double_R

So you don't think that. Fair enough.

#13

Best.Korea

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Best.Korea

11.14.2023 07:07PM

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@Greyparrot

Another big lie spread around for decades by those with the real power.

Yeah Jimmy Dore warned us about it.

#14

Greyparrot

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11.14.2023 07:14PM

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@Best.Korea

Do you think Biden is really responsible for the objectively shit economy? Trump supporters believe that big lie too.

Wanna talk about some more big lies? we can start in Ukraine if you want.

Topic's author

#15

Double_R

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11.14.2023 07:15PM

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@Greyparrot

The thing about the Hitler reference is that there are two primary qualities about him that we have all learned to despise or at the very least reject;

First is the fact that he managed to talk an entire nation out of their values with his skill of public manipulation - step by step priming them to follow him off the moral and ethical cliff.

The second is his grotesque views and disregard for any flavor of human life he didn't see as worthy and what he was willing to carry out against them.

Both of these are historically notable. But anytime someone uses his name to point out the remarkable similarities regarding the first quality, it has become a thoughtless retort to reject it by pretending we're talking about the second.

The second is not what we're talking about. When it comes to the first, Trump may not be as skilled as Hitler, but he absolutely has followed his model whether it's on purpose or whether it's because they're so similar in that regard. That is absolutely notable and worthy of attention.

#16

Best.Korea

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Best.Korea

11.14.2023 07:16PM

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@Greyparrot

Biden is at fault for everything, from war in Ukraine to why MAGA men are single.

Topic's author

#17

Double_R

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11.14.2023 07:16PM

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@Greyparrot

Wanna talk about some more big lies? we can start in Ukraine if you want.

Or you could just stick to the topic of this thread and answer the question.

#18

Best.Korea

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Best.Korea

11.14.2023 07:18PM

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@Double_R

Or you could just stick to the topic of this thread and answer the question

He is using "look here, dont look there" tactic.

#19

Greyparrot

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11.14.2023 07:24PM

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@Double_R

Or you could just stick to the topic of this thread and answer the question.

Well you are making quite a few presumptions here,

1) That American values changed because of Trump, not because of the condition the country was in before he came down the escalator.

(Although regrettably, that also happened when the Weimar fucked the people over for decades and told them to shut up and take it)

2) Trump has no redeeming qualities that would elevate him above those foibles. This presumption requires you to have an extremely partisan lens to swallow.

3) When Trump becomes president again, he will call for an armed insurgency to keep him in power after 4 years. Again, this presumption requires you to have an extremely partisan lens to swallow.

None of these presumptions will hold much weight with a non-partisan independent voter, much less a Trump supporter.

#20

Greyparrot

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11.14.2023 07:32PM

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@Double_R

Also regarding your "rule of law" question in your OP: We haven't had an equal application of the law for decades now. The age of rules for thee but not for me started LONG before Trump. When the executive branch has so much power to arbitrarily not enforce laws when convenient and enforce archaic laws when it is also convenient, the "rule of law" argument goes where it belongs: into the shitcan.

The entire reason why the country was a mess before Trump was the direct malfeasance of purposefully not enforcing immigration laws by the executive branch, so if you want to blame something for Trump, blame all his predecessors in both parties for failing the "rule of law" The current shitshow circus of jailing a political opponent makes such a question a running joke. What Biden did to Eric Adams...your own damn Mayor, should have you really wondering where the real threat is. It's absolutely reprehensible to send the DOJ after a Mayor of your own party for simply asking for immigration refugee relief. You asked if authoritarianism looks like Trump? It's right there.

Topic's author

#21

Double_R

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11.14.2023 09:09PM

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@Greyparrot

So to simplify; No, you will not answer the question.

You argue as if you cannot answer it because the premises are wrong or should not be accepted, yet the premises have nothing to do with the question itself.

You either believe he is a fascist or you do not, this isn’t a trick question and it isn’t complicated. But you cannot answer it because you know it would make you look silly so instead you employ tired old tactics.

Step 1: Find something to paint a false equivalence

Step 2: Two wrongs make a right

This was so obvious that I pre-empted it in the OP where I specifically said to save your whataboutisms. Yet here we are.

Well you are making quite a few presumptions here,

1) That American values changed because of Trump

Nothing I have said here remotely presumes this. The values of the country at large is irrelevant to whether Trump is a fascist/authoritarian.

Trump has no redeeming qualities that would elevate him above those foibles

Again, irrelevant to whether he is a fascist/authoritarian

We haven't had an equal application of the law for decades now. The age of rules for thee but not for me started LONG before Trump. When the executive branch has so much power to arbitrarily not enforce laws when convenient and enforce archaic laws when it is also convenient, the "rule of law" argument goes where it belongs: into the shitcan.

There has always been unfairness within our system of justice, that will be the case so long as we have human beings in charge of it. But a lack of perfection =/= fascism. This is a silly argument.

if you want to blame something for Trump, blame all his predecessors in both parties for failing the "rule of law"

So it's Bush and Obama's fault Trump's is a fascist. Great argument.

The current shitshow circus of jailing a political opponent makes such a question a running joke.

Trump will be convicted because he is blatantly obviously guilty of committing very serious crimes. That's how the rule of law works. This is really basic stuff.

#22

Greyparrot

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11.14.2023 10:13PM

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@Double_R

I am not a partisan hack for either party, so I must respectfully reject your premises.

You said this:

First is the fact that he managed to talk an entire nation out of their values..

then you said this:

Nothing I have said here remotely presumes this

I think that's all we need to see here.

Again, irrelevant to whether he is a fascist/authoritarian

I beg to differ. It's one thing to use authority to destroy your personal political enemies and quite another thing to use authority to protect the people who elected you. Using authority in itself is never a bad thing, and there's no point electing someone that rarely if ever uses authority to uphold the law when it's convenient to do so (rules for thee but not for me again) You can't have your illusion of "rule of law" without it. (we have not had it for many decades)

So it's Bush and Obama's fault Trump's is a fascist. Great argument.

No, it's their fault that the country is so broken that the people will elect anyone that isn't lockstep with the status quo. You just inserted your cutesie word "fascist" as a joke of course, since there isn't a person on the planet that can check all the hundreds of boxes that defines it.

Trump will be convicted because he is blatantly obviously guilty of committing very serious crimes. That's how the rule of law works. This is really basic stuff.

While the Eric Adams administration will get off with a warning for daring to step out of line with the status quo, but then publicly apologizing to the overlords in D.C.. Some mayor you got there.

Topic's author

#23

Double_R

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11.14.2023 11:50PM

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@Greyparrot

I am not a partisan hack for either party

Then why can't you answer a simple yes or no question with a simple yes or no? Again, it's not a trick question and it's not based on any set of premises. You either believe Trump is a fascist or you don't. The fact that you continue to dodge this question coupled with the fact that you repeatedly call anyone here who criticizes him of TDS while criticizing everything Biden does shows us very clearly what side you are a partisan hack for.

You said this:
First is the fact that he managed to talk an entire nation out of their values..
then you said this:
Nothing I have said here remotely presumes this
I think that's all we need to see here.

As usual, you aren't paying attention. You're talking about the result, I'm talking about the intention.

The first quote was my assessment of what Hitler accomplished (past tense), you then applied that to Trump as if I said he accomplished (past tense) the same thing (I didn't), then took that false interpretation of my point and used that as an excuse to not answer the question (because of false premises) that my question wasn't even based on.

The comparison of Hitler to Trump is not about accomplishments, it's about intentions. Trump may yet succeed at "changing the country's values" but he hasn't done that yet. He has changed the republican party's values, but that's not the same thing.

It's one thing to use authority to destroy your personal political enemies and quite another thing to use authority to protect the people who elected you.

Fascism 101: Lie to the people repeatedly to convince them that they are under assault, then sell yourself as their protector.

You are a perfect example of why fascism works.

No, it's their fault that the country is so broken that the people will elect anyone that isn't lockstep with the status quo.

The fact that the people are so ignorant of how the world works and of history that we would elect a moron and a fascist like Trump is no one's fault but ours.

You just inserted your cutesie word "fascist" as a joke of course, since there isn't a person on the planet that can check all the hundreds of boxes that defines it.

Fascism doesn't have hundreds of check boxes nor does anyone need to check every single one of them to qualify.

This is a silly attempt to argue Trump is not a fascist by arguing there's no such thing as fascists. If that's what you are resorting to it should really make you think.

While the Eric Adams administration will get off with a warning for daring to step out of line with the status quo, but then publicly apologizing to the overlords in D.C.. Some mayor you got there.

Another predictable whataboutism.

#24

Greyparrot

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11.15.2023 12:22AM

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11.15.2023 12:22AM

Lie to the people repeatedly to convince them that they are under assault, then sell yourself as their protector.

Biden sure turned a pretty penny doing that in Ukraine for the last decade, but simply doing that doesn't make him a "fascist"

Neither does it make Netanyahu a "fascist"

In fact, I am pretty sure there's no such thing as an actual fascist alive today.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/03/01/no-fascism-cant-happen-here-217092/

It's just this week's talking point the overlords in DC want to push since "Ultra Maga" isn't polling as well.

Again, Trump already showed how useless he was even with a controlled Congress. Your attempt to spin fantasy tales about a Trump that never was and never will be is pure entertainment for this forum, but shouldn't be taken seriously. No MSM talking-point narrative should.

You are a perfect example of why fascism works.

Chill with the Ad-homs bro, I didn't blame you for what's going on with Eric Adams.

#25

n8nrgim

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11.15.2023 12:35AM

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this site needs more trump supporters, or at least trump supporters who try to take politics seriously. i cant imagine half the country has gone crazy.... where are all the sane trump supporters to come here to defend trump and to defend their support of him?

#26

n8nrgim

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11.15.2023 03:04AM

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@Double_R

do you think there are reasonable trump supporters out there? can't half the country be crazy? or they are reasonable despite the fact they support trump? or maybe like nazi germany moved a whole country off the cliff, trump has led half the country off the cliff?

how would you characterize all this?

#27

IwantRooseveltagain

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IwantRooseveltagain

11.15.2023 04:23AM

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[You would have to believe that] Trump has no redeeming qualities that would elevate him above those foibles. This presumption requires you to have an extremely partisan lens to swallow.

Like the way Hitler had redeeming qualities? I understand he was a wonderful dancer.

#28

IwantRooseveltagain

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IwantRooseveltagain

11.15.2023 04:26AM

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11.15.2023 04:26AM

Biden sure turned a pretty penny doing that in Ukraine for the last decade

Only morons believe that

Again, Trump already showed how useless he was even with a controlled Congress. Your attempt to spin fantasy tales about a Trump that never was and never will be is pure entertainment for this forum, but shouldn't be taken seriously. No MSM talking-point narrative should.

Jimmy Dore puts out the narrative for morons.

“ Fantasy tales” Also Known as facts to the non Libertarian minded.

Can anyone name an important, consequential Libertarian? Nope. They don’t exist.

#29

Swagnarok

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Swagnarok

11.15.2023 04:56AM

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Give us the verbatim quotes or tweets by Trump in question. Not another "anonymous report claims Trump said this/is planning this", but a provable thing that Trump uttered.

#30

Sidewalker

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11.15.2023 05:46AM

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@Swagnarok

Give us the verbatim quotes or tweets by Trump in question. Not another "anonymous report claims Trump said this/is planning this", but a provable thing that Trump uttered.

"I love the poorly educated" - Donald Trump