Instigator / Pro
0
1515
rating
3
debates
66.67%
won
Topic
#934
should the basement tapes be released part 2
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 5 votes and with 5 points ahead, the winner is...
oromagi
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 30,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
5
1922
rating
117
debates
97.44%
won
Description
hey hope we can get a good debate going. pardon my spelling english is my third language
Round 1
Forfeited
Thanks, Dylan_Kleboid
Regrettably, Pro has forfeited R1. Defining thesis and terms is the important responsibility of the debate instigator in the first round of a third round debate. By forfeit, Con is forced to set terms to Con's advantage.
Con interprets Pro's thesis as a public policy debate:
THESIS: Should the office of the Jefferson County Sheriff in the State of Colorado release out of evidence four hours of home videos shot by the two perpetrators of the infamous Columbine School Massacre?
Con argues no for at least three causes:
1. All known copies of the "Basement Tapes" were destroyed by the Jefferson County Sheriff's office in 2011. There are no known copies extant. Pro's policy recommendation is impossible fulfill.
2. Jefferson County withheld the tapes prior to destruction arguing that the tapes effectively serve as a primer in mass murder and might very likely inspire additional young sociopaths to murder.
3. A transcript of the Basement Tapes is freely available online which should serve most practical inquiries.
There are no Basement Tapes. Even if Pro argues that the tapes should be released for some reason, the tapes no longer exist for release. Pro's position is impossible to fulfill.
I look forward to Pro's response.
Round 2
Forfeited
extend all arguments.
Another famous recording called "The Basement Tapes" was released by Bob Dylan and the Band in 1975 but recorded in 1967 at the apex of Bob Dylan's creative genius. Many of my most favorite Dylan songs were sung first on this album. "I Shall Be Released" is one of these although it is Nina Simone's cover that resonates most deep.
Here are Dylan's incomparable lyrics:
They say ev’rything can be replaced
Yet ev’ry distance is not near
So I remember ev’ry face
Of ev’ry man who put me here
I see my light come shining
From the west unto the east
Any day now, any day now
I shall be released
They say ev’ry man needs protection
They say ev’ry man must fall
Yet I swear I see my reflection
Some place so high above this wall
I see my light come shining
From the west unto the east
Any day now, any day now
I shall be released
Standing next to me in this lonely crowd
Is a man who swears he’s not to blame
All day long I hear him shout so loud
Crying out that he was framed
I see my light come shining
From the west unto the east
Any day now, any day now
I shall be released
And here are those words made sweet and sorrowful by the High Priestess of Soul:
peace
Round 3
Forfeited
Extend all arguments.
VOTER RECOMMENDATION: All points CON
Full forfeit by Pro.
Thanks to voters for their kind consideration.
The former is more fact-based while the later is subjective and dependent on the former proving true. Since I don't believe you can prove that any copies of the Columbine tapes still exist, I choose the former.
This is actually 2 debates. one is whether the tapes likely still exist or not, the other is whether they should be released. We can either debate their continued existence or debate whether they should be released and presuppose that they actually exist and are able to be released. Which one would you like to debate?
I don’t think you’ve got much of a case but I’d be happy to debate it with you
Columbine was in the news again this week and the reason sort of answers your question: there is much obsessive fixation on the event that feeds into harms and potential harms.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/07/us/columbine-high-school-demolition.html
What other reason is there for destroying the tape besides cover up? His stated reasons make no sense. Even their bomb making instructions are pulled from the anarchist cook book, so destroying the tape does not prevent that information from getting out. All he did was prevent historians and researchers from getting the maximum amount of information to understand these kids in a way that will prevent similar tragedies in the future. KNowing this for a fact, what motive would there be for destroying the tapes?
I don’t see evidence of JeffCo hiding/cover up. If u instigate a debate along these lines I am likely to accept
Sure.
What do you think they were trying to cover up by hiding those tapes?
I want to debate this as pro.
sorry we missed the chance
Mod note: Full forfeit debates are nod moderated unless the voter votes for the forfeiting side.
i spend alot of time on the internet so i learn alot of slang i havent really used my native languages for awhile i rarely practice german
It's good enough where I can understand you. You sound like a native anglophone by the way you type messages.
french was my native language when i used to live in switzerland, my second language was german, and than i learned english a bit before we moved to canada and finished in canada. i dont know if ill learn another any time soon as my english is stil bad
oh dang sorry i was on holiday for a week. you bring up good points
Thanks for the compliment, however I'm pretty burnt out on debating for now which is why I haven't taken up any new challenges. Piled onto that and I'm really busy with FINALS, AP summer HW, videogames, filming, and Boyscout stuff, it's unlikely i'll be debating anytime soon
I commented on some earlier debate that I was at work less than a mile from Columbine when it happened. I drove past the school earlier than day. So, of course, Columbine has always been a story of significant local interest here. I also really enjoy debunking various conspiracy theories so I had hopes for an interesting debate here, alas.
You should join Bsh1's DART race- we need more good debaters like yourself.
I'm kinda interested in the tapes, not as much as this Dylan guy but yeah.
Nice to see I'm not the exclusive reader of this debate.
You should read the 2015 Westword Article I used as evidence.
Although some copies were made to support lawsuits vs. the killer's parents and some pharmaceutical companies, viewing privileges were highly controlled and the courts ordered the destruction of those copies in 2006. The last court order regarding these tapes was also 2006 which left the disposition of the tapes to the JeffCo Sheriff's Dept. If Mink and Kelly are lying for reason about the destruction of high profile evidence, than they are high-ranking state officials with maximal criminal exposure. Why would law enforcement officers risk their lives & careers for what benefit?
It does not seem unlikely to me that the FBI had (or even has) copies but good luck proving or disproving that.
The strongest evidence that there are no bootlegs out there is that no video has ever been released is spite of high demand.
I, for one, find such demand hard to fathom given that the evidence reports seem fairly comprehensive and fairly uninteresting to the non-sociopath.
Alright, so I did ALOT of research on the subject. Apparently, there have been a lot of presumed copies made,
- The Originals
- The copies made for the victim's families to view
- The copies made for the court hearing
- And the copies for the FBI
Now a COLORADO ( keyword colorado ) judge ruled all copies of the basement tapes be destroyed.
This would include the originals, the copies made for the court, and the ones for the victim's families to view.
It's unlikely the FBI would listen, crimes of this severity such as the most infamous school shooting ever wouldn't destroy evidence no matter what the circumstance.
Therefore it's likely the FBI still has their own copy of the basement tapes, of course they most likely won't release them unless they get leaked.
Do the tapes even exist?
What is your 2nd language if English is your 3rd?