"But the fact that we're even geeky enough to have this debate means that we're on in the average category of anime watchers."
Aren't dubs easier to watch for you too? I mean, I'm sure they are. One could argue that some people just love to read. I love reading too but in this specific format in entertainment? Distracting, I'd rather focus on the screen alone, like any other show or movie that isn't anime. By "average category of anime watchers" do you mean the people who watch sub and understands the essence of it? If so, I agree with that. I am aware that people who are experienced anime watchers who've seen tons of anime are more than likely sub watchers. There are also the ones who watch both sub and dub. It's rare to find someone who is a dubber. I guess I fit in that category. Also, people who are new to anime and getting into it for the first time tend lean to dub for obvious reasons.
"Japanese people would find sub easier to watch."
This helps my argument. If this wasn't meant to help, then explain. Just as Japanese people would find sub easier to watch, American people/people who speak English would find dub easier to watch. You don't see Japanese people watching dub anime with Japanese subtitles and praising it, while disliking sub anime. I know this may or may not make sense to you or the people viewing the debate since anime originated from Japan, so it probably wouldn't make any sense that a Japanese person would watch a dub anime rather than sub (Japanese audio which is their language), but the statement you made suggests that a Japanese person could possibly watch dub anime and perhaps hypothetically enjoy it more than sub.
I did notice that you said "Semantically speaking", so I think you were joking? If I took it too serious, then sorry. Enlighten me.
Translations
I'm unsure if you seen Death note, but I will use it as my example here. I will use these two phrases that are closely similar. Pick which one you think is slightly better. I won't even say which is sub and which is dub. After you either choose phrase 1 or phrase 2, I will reveal to you in the next round which is which, and explain translations being a bit better (at times) not all of the time.
The character L, says this:
1. "I have to sit like this."
2. "It's not like I want to sit like this."
Two sentences that mean the same thing, but the wording is a little different. Which phrase do you like better? This might be pretty easy for you to guess which is sub and dub, so feel free to choose in the next round if you'd like. I'll keep what you said, "not a direct translation, but rather something that was put in to replace the more boring phrase as you put it." in mind for the next round.
Sound
From my experience in the anime community, I've come across many people (mainly sub watchers of course) who admit that Death note in the dub is great and is done very well. Some even preferring the dub version over the sub.
Another example, L's scream was much better in the dub than in the sub. Check them both out and compare.
In the dub, you can hear the fear and terror in his voice, he was actually frightened.
In the sub, there was an initial yell, but he mostly gasped and it was just silent. There was barely any work put into that.
I'd say between those two, the dub was better and more compelling.
One could argue that "most subs are superior (I hate the superior argument) and they convey emotion better" but this scene alone shows that dubs can be just as good if not better, and they should be respected more. As time passes, I notice people are starting to appreciate dubs.
"A sound cannot sound better than a word. You should be comparing the Japanese sounds made, which I find quite entertaining."
A word cannot be better than a sound. Which in turn sums up my whole argument. Dub in my book displays the importance of sound and the words being said, which are one in the same, since there are no subtitles being shown. By your logic, sound is better than a word since, from my understanding. sub watchers value the voices of the characters the most. This means that the voices will overshadow the words. Realistically speaking, reading words on a screen isn't a wow factor, they don't hold much weight and they aren't the source of entertainment. Yeah you need the words to help you understand what's being said, but the voices of the characters are the main entertainment. But let's briefly compare sounds made in the sub and the dub. I do admit, the sounds made from characters in Japanese are pretty good but in English, it can be just as good. Another thing, Japanese VA's can be way too over the top and annoying, sometimes hurting my ears. It's like there is screeching at time to time.
Another reason I connect more with dub is that I can actually hear the emphasis and sarcasm in character's voices. You can't really hear that from sub, which ruins the fun of it. Yes, there's italics in the subtitles representing an emphasis but like I said, it doesn't hold much weight. This proves that a word is not better than a sound. What I take from this is that watching sub lowers the importance of the actual words you understand and you can become misguided with the Japanese voices and get confused without even knowing it.
"Watching dub is nice because you get to be ahead on the story line. Sometimes months ahead. This is actually the reason I started watching sub."
Did you mean to say watching *sub? I'm sure you did. But yeah, I agree with you on that all the way. That's the only advantage of sub to me. You get to be ahead and up to date on everything, like for One punch man S2 I wanted to wait for the dub so bad, but because of the hype I went ahead and watched the sub unfortunately, but nevertheless S2 is amazing. However, I watched One punch mean season 1 in dub and I was used to it. Oh well.
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Understood
Hey sorry for the delayed response. I'm not calling it a troll vote rather I am clarifying that this is not a troll debate. A troll debate is any (a) competition-style debate (e.g. rap battle, talent show, poetry competition), (b) debate primarily designed to be humorous or facetious or containing primarily humorous or facetious content, and (c) debate on a truism (e.g. "a bachelor is someone who is unmarried"). Votes on troll debates are not moderated. I am clarifying there that votes are moderated and this does not qualifty as a troll debate.
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I don't even see how he picked Pro for sources when none of us provided any sources, so it should have been tied. Well, in my R3 all I did was provide youtube links and that was it, nothing serious. Probably would have been more accurate if he picked Pro for better arguments from looking at his RFD. May not have been the best vote, but how was it a troll vote?
Anyways, I hope more people vote.
If there ever was an objective vote in this universe, that was it.
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Vote Reported: K_Michael // Mod Action: Removed
Points awarded: 3 to pro for sources
RFD: I believe that the lost in translation argument by Pro is superior. The English-speaking voice actors won't necessarily carry the intended tone of voice.
Reason for mod action: This is not a troll debate and as such all votes are moderated. The arguments are not explained.
In order to award argument points, a voter must explicitly, and in the text of their RFD, perform the following tasks:
Survey the main arguments and counterarguments presented in the debate
Weigh those arguments against each other (or explain why certain arguments need not be weighed based on what transpired within the debate itself)
Explain how, through the process of weighing, they arrived at their voting decision with regard to assigning argument points
Weighing entails analyzing how the relative strength of one argument or set of arguments outweighed (that is, out-impacted) and/or precluded another argument or set of arguments. Weighing requires analyzing and situating arguments and counterarguments within the context of the debate as a whole.
The voter does none fo this.
The voter should review the COC here: https://www.debateart.com/rules
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You'll adjust quickly. You don't have to go off my arguments, you can just imagine my possible arguments and go off those.
Damn, I was planning to let Pro make their argument first, so I have something to go on and respond to. Apparently when someone accepts my debate, I must go first. I guess I can't do acceptance rounds, I'm used to DDO. (I guess you can't make a R1 argument and then put up your debate for people to accept, because in DDO you put in your argument when you make a debate, but here you can't do that) I'll just go ahead and make my first argument. I'll use half of my argument in R1, and then you come with your opening arguments and respond to mine, and in R2 I will use the other half of my argument so it won't be overbearing since I have long argument.
Still new to this site so I'm still slightly confused on some things.
I can't stand watching AOT dubbed because I'm so used to their Japanese voices. In particular, Hanji and Armin sound awful in English.
Finally! Something I can apply my collective subjective argument too. Shameless spoilers. Since this is an anime debate, I'm going to add some ass pull and say that I'll make an "unreasonable comeback". ;)
I take the side that to each their own.
Yeah same, sometimes the voice actors sound so different and don't fit the character, I end up hating it.
I prefer sub, but not enough to debate you. Dub is fine if the voice actors fit my picture of the character.
Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood gives Edward Elric a really annoying voice in the dubbed version.