Is Calvinism True?

1 Timothy 2:4 says: "[God] will have all men to be saved, And to come unto the knowledge of the truth. "

How could this be true if God selects only certain people to go to heaven? In fact, Why would he create certain people in the first place if he wasn't going to allow them to enter heaven? It makes no sense. In fact, It would entail controlling their free will:

John 14:6: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. "

So one has to choose Jesus in order to enter heaven. However, In the Calvinist view, We've already been selected to go to heaven. Why do we have to choose if God's chosen us already? 

Besides this, You're basically saying that God has condemned people to sin beyond their free will, But God hates sin more than anything else. So you're essentially saying that he created people to do something he hates and they can't control it. 

2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, As some understand slowness. 

Instead

he is patient with you, Not wanting anyone to perish, But everyone to come to repentance. "

Why would he have to be patient and wait if he had already chosen who goes to heaven and who doesn't? It simply wouldn't matter. In the Calvinist worldview, God has created people to go to hell simply because he can, But that completely goes against the God that the Bible preaches. 

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, That whosoever believeth on him should not perish, But have eternal life. "

This says that God loves the entire world, And whoever believes in Jesus shall go to heaven and have eternal life, Not only those he supposedly hand-picked. 

Besides this, If we were pre-destined, There would be no point in missionaries or spreading the word, Because those who go to heaven will go regardless of whether they hear of Jesus or not and those who will go to hell will go whether they hear of Jesus or not. 

1 Peter 3:15: "but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, Always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, Yet with gentleness and reverence;"

Why would we be called to minister to people who can't actually make a choice themselves?

Another point is that sin wouldn't matter at all, But look at Hebrews 10:16: "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, There no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, "

This shows how we can lose salvation, But that is not true in this Calvinist view. 

A common Calvinist scripture is Ephesians 1:4-5. However, that view of it is not true. In 1:13 it specifically says: "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, The gospel of your salvation. When you believed, You were marked in him with a seal, The promised Holy Spirit, "

They were included in Christ when they believed, Also known as choosing. For more context, 1:1 says "Paul, An apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus"

He is talking to Christians here: "The Calvinist contends that certain individuals were chosen before the world began and predestined to become believers, But that is simply not what the text says. Paul teaches that those “in Him” have been predestined to become “holy and blameless” and “to be adopted as sons, ” but he never says that certain individuals were predestined to believe in Christ. Paul is speaking of what “the faithful in Christ” (vs. 1) have been predestined to become, Not about God preselecting certain individuals before the foundation of the world to be irresistibly transformed into believers. "'

https://soteriology101.com/2016/03/16/answering-calvinistic-proof-texts/

Acts 13:48 is usually used out of context to explain the Calvinistic point. If you look at the context of that scripture, It is a setting where there are Jewish people, and then there are Gentiles. God is giving his favor to the Gentiles and giving them a revelation because they have been humble and received his word. God simply chooses to spread his blessings through Israel. 

Acts 13:8: 

"Therefore, My friends, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, A justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses. "

This says that can get forgiveness if we believe, and it says everyone.

Another scripture used is 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14. However, Context tells us how Gentiles were continually condemned by Jews, And God was saying that Gentiles were included in his plan. Also, He says that he chose them through sanctification and belief of the truth, So if your view was correct, God would be controlling their wills and making them believe in him. However, We know this not to be true. 

Before I start, I would like to clarify that I am not Arminiast and I am strictly arguing against predestination.

I agree on 1, 2, and 4. For 3, I'm not sure what you mean when you say that Christ has not guaranteed salvation. If you mean he hasn't given it to everyone, then no, but if you mean that he only gives it to those that want and accept it, then yes. As for 5, I am still trying to figure out my opinion on that one.

Are you arguing for prevenient grace? I am not, I do not believe that God starts loving an individual at "some point," but rather that he has always loved everyone.

So are you saying that someone getting shot, or a bomb killing children, or a man committing suicide are all God's will? And wouldn't this necessarily take away all free will of our own, rendering life meaningless?

Again, this does not fit the description of the loving, just God who treats everyone equally. 

I disagree. Our nature must change in order for us to resist sin, but not to seek and follow God:

Galatians 2:20:

"I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."

In your view, his nature must have inherently been different in order for him to accept Jesus, but this shows that it changed after.

How does God hating sin create his will for some people to come to him and others not to?

Where is your proof that some people are not able to obey this command? Second, can you explain more about what you mean by the last sentence in this quote.

So how does it make sense for God to stop some people from doing the things that please him and then to get mad at those people when they do what he made them to do, which is to not please him (in your view). The answer is that it doesn't make sense.

God has shown that he doesn't need word-by-mouth to communicate the gospel.

"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse" (Romans 1:20)

Why would he have us waste our time with those that have no chance of going to heaven if the people he has irresistibly drawn to him will come by one way or another?

This is you reading into the scripture. The lack of predestination here shows that it is not valid.

Could you explain what you mean?

Any method that involves irresistibly drawing us toward the faith is controlling our free will. It is called "free" will because it is ours, and therefore our choice. If we are irresistibly drawn, that means it was God's choice, not our own.

As I described, God wants everyone to come to him, so why then would he stop some from making the choice to come to him? Yes, all are sinners and unbelievers, which is why they must choose to come to him so he may make us new and whole. 

yes and yes! but it wouldn't render life meaningless. Its not his prescribed will but it is decreed otherwise it wouldn't happen.  What needs to be weighed in this observation is the fact we have satan also trying to destroy us, He cannot do anything God doesn't allow him however.

He does treat everyone equally, but he has foreordained us all to a unique destiny. Ezekiel 18 explains the just and fairness of God (not considering predestination as they didn't know of it at that time)  God is no respecter of persons acts 10:34-43.    However, what we need to consider before accusing God of not loving is the idea of the sin he holds us back from and his expressed nature in prescribed will.  1 John 4:8

Galatians is showing a change in nature "I am crucified with christ. it is no long I who live"  This is showing a death of sin nature, which is necessary to understand in the requirements of repentance. Romans 6:1-11 talks more about this.  colossians 2:6-15.   and in my arguement i said "it is necessary for the elect to have a similar nature to God in order to obey and seek him" 

I was stressing his nature creates the will, not the hatred of sin. All are children of wrath however until they repent and come to the obedience of christ.

2 corinthians 4:4  romans 8:7      in my question i was challenging the assertion of free will and if God said or revealed at anytime that mankind would NOT suffer or die? according to his decreed will. 

He never stopped them, he simply never gave them that will to such a degree that they would do it, but they hardened their hearts when challenged with it like pharaoh hardened his heart when commanded by moses to let God's people Go.

as to why God gets mad at them, isaiah 10 is a good example! God had the assyrians to attack israel then God punished them for their heart and thoughts because of it.

I agree, God never needed to do anything, but he chooses to do this so that those who didn't see his power might still have a chance to hear and believe.  Again, sinners are blinded by the devil (who God uses) so that they can't see it.    Again, because we don't know who the elect are, but if we are to be like God, we must seek after them like he does. His prescribed will shows his lovingkindness and love even toward sinners. 

Ephesians 1:4-5 shows evidence of predestination, however it doesn't give specific example of it like verses 7-13 do. Im not saying its invalid im saying it doesn't give clear examples here like it does later on. 

The original greek shows no word that could interpret to be "Become" as the website you show translated it.  

Exactly, we are born by God's choice, Paul puts it very well here. Acts 17:28.  We cannot do anything without God.  There is no evidence of free will in the decreed sense 

No one willingly chooses to come to God.  psalms 53:1-5  and paul stresses it again in romans 3:9-20 to explain the grace of God drawls us to him. 

Why wouldn't life become meaningless? Our meaning is derived out of the purpose we gain from our actions, so if we are just puppets then that means life is an illusion.

If God treats all equally, then he gives everyone the opportunity to become a Christian. However, in the Calvinist view, this is not true. That is a direct contradiction. God not being a respecter of persons simply means that he doesn't look at your outside, he looks at your heart and your true beliefs. Also, how does God hold us back from sin?

I was saying that the change occurred after he believed. In the Calvinistic view, there must have been some change beforehand that allowed him to become a Christian in the first place.

What distinguishes the so-called elect from the non-elect? Why do they deserve to go to hell because of the way they were created?

No, however, God said he is working for our good. How is wanting someone to get brutally murdered working for that person's good? Or getting maimed in an earthquake or a tornado? Or burned in a natural fire?

If they cannot make the decision at all, that means he did stop them. Even if he let them do "the rest of the work for him" by continuing the denial process, that is still stopping them because he took away the will to do it to such a degree that they couldn't stop themselves from not doing it.

That's not true. God didn't punish them because of their hearts during it, he punished them because the Assyrian king took credit for the victory instead of giving it to the Lord. So my question remains, why does God get mad at these people for doing something he made them do?

Isaiah 10:12, 13, 15: "...I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks. For he saith, By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom;...Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood."

Why does someone need to hear the word if they can't accept it?

it says "us." Where is your evidence that "us" excludes everyone else? Why wouldn't Paul simply be discussing God's omniscience and how he knew that that group of people would become Christians?

The scripture says that God chose those people "in love." He chose them because he loves them. As has been demonstrated multiple times in scripture, God loves everyone; it is simply his nature to do so. Therefore, if he chooses for salvation whom he loves, and he loves everyone, then he must logically therefore choose everyone. Anything else is contradictory.

The word "become" is in your view of the scripture as well as mine. I don't see how this changes anything.

Yes, we are born of God, but he gives us the free will to operate. That is our choice. Just because he gives us the platform to make our choice (our very lives, the Earth, the Bible, etc.) doesn't mean that he forces our choice.

Yes, the grace of God does draw us to him. However, it does not force us to choose him. There is a stark difference between the two. Seeking God does not equate to choosing God. 

The meaning of life is to serve God and in serving God we experience the Joys and pleasures of God, or, the temporary pleasures and deceitfulness of Sin, According to whom God has chosen for which. 

I am not arguing calvinism, only predestination. Idk what calvinist views are.   According to the word of God he does give people the opportunity to know him, However they will not know him because they have no will or desire from God to choose God.  God being a respecter of persons means he doesn't respect any one person.  God weighing the spirits is him looking at your heart and beliefs.   How? Simple, he makes sure that such desire doesn't enter us. He is responsible for the will, or, the spirit that is in man.   

God moved him to belief as he fore ordained that he would. Paul's testimony is that the Lord changed him on the road of Damascus when he was surrounded by light and Jesus spoke to him. It wasn't something he put in himself. 

Why don't the elect go to hell? They were born in sin right? so they deserve the same punishment.  The answer is God having mercy on whom he will and hardening whom he will in Romans 9. 

The fact the person lived and breathed at all is a blessing. We don't deserve life.  it might be the person murdered could have been a murderer himself, I don't know why God does things specifically, but the bible says that He has a purpose in Isaiah 41:21-23. 

I thinks its awfully great and Kind of God to establish a purpose for everything he does instead of just doing it because it pleases him.  For christians we have this promise "All things work together for the good for them who are the called according to his purpose"  Romans 8:28

Never doing something is not the same as stopping yourself from doing it, even simple logic teaches us that.   We don't have the will to serve God, psalms 53. Our inherent will is to do EVIL. We are SINNERS.  i hope i'm getting this across to ya. 

I just said that God punished them because of their heart, The bible says the thoughts proceed from the heart.  matthew 15:18-9  Mark 7:21.  

As to why God Got mad at them? They didn't reflect his nature because he didn't allow his nature to be revealed that they might humble themselves.

I just told you, didn't you read? Some will accept it, others will not.

Just like you aren't accepting the word of God regarding predestination, you just refuse to see it.  

You have to go to the greek to see it, but just from context and the fact that paul is writing to a CHURCH, that he is talking to christ believers.  Read from verse 1 to verse 5.  Infact, the whole chapter of ephesians 1 is talking to saints at ephesus and in the broadest context refers to other saints.    Because verse 5 use active verb in reference to predestine. I advise looking at the Greek. 

Thats a misreading of verse 4, its like you just skipped the choosing part of the verse, KJV According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:    NASB  Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love. ESV even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love    

Again you are advocating open theism of the scriptures which says that God has to save everyone,

That limits the mercy of God to justice, Justice however demands that every sin be thrown in the lake of fire.  Mercy is not Justice.  God indeed loves every person, but he doesn't choose who will be saved by love, but by grace. Mercy is free to chose what he wishes to express it on and is a higher law than justice. 

Not to mention you would completely misunderstand the context of verse 5 which says "To the Good will and pleasure of him"  Not Through love 

it is not. To become would mean that God made us divine sons, not that we were predestined to become divine sons.  Seriously you need to read these links i post and the scriptures.https://biblehub.com/text/ephesians/1-5.htm

There is no scripture or recognition of God concerning free will, in fact i gave verses earlier that dismissed the concept of free will.  and don't think to use the "Free will offering" mentioned in the old testament, that has reference to a person moved by God to offer. Such as we are moved by God to have mercy on those we meet that are not doing well. 

Actually it does, The bible those that seek shall find. So to those who do seek God, they will find God.   It does force us to him, otherwise we wouldn't chose him, The scriptures are plain when it says "there is none that choose God"  how do you think we end up choosing him if we don't choose him? Something made us choose him. 

Alrighty! i've gone over all your statements.  I will leave Round 5 blank unless you have questions you really want me to answer.  

I would appreciate it if you could respond.

Alrighty! i've gone over all your statements.  I will leave Round 5 blank unless you have questions you really want me to answer. 

Then replace "Calvinistic views" with "predestination views." Exactly, God doesn't respect any ONE person. He respects everyone EQUALLY. So how is stopping some people from believing and allowing others to believe respecting everyone equally?

I agree! So what’s God’s purpose for choosing some people and not others?

You originally offered this as an example of God getting mad at people who did what he told them to do. The showed that that was not true. So again, why does God get mad at sinners for doing the only thing that they CAN do?

God: “I’m gonna make it so these people can’t be humble”

Assyrians: “We got the victory by ourselves!”

God: Now I will destroy them for doing the thing that I just made them do.

 

How is that a loving God?

 

How is that a misreading? It literally says “in love.”