Instigator / Pro

Type1

1266

rating

119

debates

15.97%

won

Topic

#631

Judaism is worse than Islam

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 5 votes and with 35 points ahead, the winner is...

RationalMadman

Tags

Religion

Parameters

Publication date: 03.22.2019 08:18AM
Last updated date: 07.12.2019 01:46AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Three days
Max argument characters: 30,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

RationalMadman

1702

rating

574

debates

67.86%

won

Description

No information

Round 1

Type1

03.24.2019 03:09AM

Pro

Judaism is racist

In Judaism, there is a specific race which is considered to be above all others. Judaism, unlike Islam, contains a racially elitist ideology in which a certain race is chosen by God to enslave all others.

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-quran-on-racism-2004399

Talmud quotes::

The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. THEY ARE BEASTS."

- Baba Mezia, 114b

"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture says to honor the dog more than the non-Jew."

- Ereget Raschi Erod, 22 30

"Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night."

- Midrasch Talpioth, p 225, Warsaw 1855

"A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant ANIMAL."

- Coschen Hamischpat 405

"Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew as a monkey to a human."

- Schene luchoth haberuth, p 250b

"The souls of non-Jews come from impure spirits and are called PIGS."

- Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b

"If you eat with a non-Jew it is the same as eating with a dog."

- Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b

"If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his animals had died.""

- Jore Dea 377

"Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals."

- Sanhedrin 74b

"On the house of the Goy (non-Jew) one looks as on the fold of cattle."

- Tosefta, Tractate Erubin VIII

Judaism condones all of the shitty things that Islam condones in even worse ways

“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.”
[Al-Qur’an 2:190-191]

"Every Jew who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God."

- Bammidber raba c 21 & jalkut 772.

"That the Jewish nation is the only nation selected by God, while all the remaining ones are contemptible and hateful. That all property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which consequently is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples. An orthodox Jew is not bound to observe principles of morality towards people of other tribes. He may act contrary to morality, if profitable to himself or to Jews in general."

- Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat, 348

Yusuf Ali: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

Come and hear! A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition [sexual intercourse], and if her deceased husband's brother cohabits with her, she becomes his."

- Sanhedrin 55b

Judaism has done more damage historically

Aside from being the belief system which Islam comes from in the first place, thus being responsible for all that Islam does by proxy, the Jewish culture and belief system has directly done more damage than almost any other. The majority of 1% types who are corrupt bankers and wall street types are caucasian Jews, and they are greedy and elitist not because of some inherent racial thing about Jews but because of culture. Most of them are Atheists or Deists with some occult beliefs who held to the supremist attitudes and super-capitalist Jewish culture and to the mystical aspects (many of which were picked up from Babylon) But they are not Hebrews and they are not "Jews" in the same way that the average practicing Jew is. The Illuminati is essentially comprised of Deistic occultist Ashkenazi Jews at the top who are even more extreme in their elitism than the actual Hebrews were. I will expand on this later as it will be helpful to see how RM responds before I begin trying to prove it.

RationalMadman

03.27.2019 01:56AM

Con

DISCLAIMER: I do not hate all Muslims and encourage us to get along with all of them. Muslims can be good people if they ignore a fair bit of their religion and defy a lot of their previous culture and history. Good Muslims exist, but they are simply not fully following Islam and that's a good thing. Cherry-picking the Qur'an and going to a non-extremist Mosque every Friday is fine by me.

BoP cornering of Pro

What exactly is Judaism? What exactly is Islam? I notice that the 'is' is not 'was' or 'has been' so, when Pro starts talking about the past (and only the past pretty much) it is quite curious indeed. Lastly, what is 'worse'? Really, what is 'worse' when we don't say 'worse at X' or 'better at Y' we have a completely nullified concept of 'worse' or 'better'.

If Judaism is the practise, then we should ignore words and theories, same with Islam. If Judaism and Islam are the theories and official scripture, we should still ignore 'words' of people after the holy scripture(s) was/were written after the original holy Scriptures were. In fact Islam is spoken, not written, so one can even argue it's not the true word of God at all and prove that the people are all following it wrong as they follow the written word and by default defeat Islam's validity like that.

There's many ways to go about this debate, and I'm not going to lift a finger at this point. I don't want to be accused of hate-speech and I don't want to. Instead I'm going to quote two parts of the Qur'an that are particularly interesting and a couple of parts of the Hadith and in Round 2 I will annihilate Pro if need be. So far, Pro has only proven that some used Judaism as an ethnic-superiority concept but what makes a world where one ethnicity is superior and ruling mercifully over the others worse than a world where this is embraced:

And do not say about those who are killed in the way of Allah, "They are dead." Rather, they are alive, but you perceive [it] not.

- https://quran.com/2/154

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

- https://quran.com/4/34

Sahih Bukhari (6:60:79) (alt link) - Two people guilty of illegal intercourse are brought to Muhammad, who orders them both stoned to death. Apparently their act was out of love, since the verse records the man as trying to shield the woman from the stones.

Sahih Bukhari (83:37) - Adultery is one of three justifications for killing a person, according to Muhammad.

- https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/adultery-stoning.aspx

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:

Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:

Narrated Hisham's father:

Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

- http://muslim-responses.com/Marriage_with_Aisha/Marriage_with_Aisha_/

Let's start there, want to bring up stats? Calling Judaism the worst religion in history? Please, tell me how a religion that is far more ancient than Islam (https://www.history.com/topics/religion/judaism) that has been enslaved by Ancient Egyptians (AKA Persians) and persecuted by plenty-a-culture throughout history up to as recently as World War 2, in a physical manner and still is today in a verbal manner and media manner (which apparently they control via Illuminati and yet which makes Israel seem like something that it wouldn't seem if they controlled the Media) ends up being called worse than the religion that came millennia later and yet conquered, abused and toyed with many people everywhere it invaded and spread. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/earlyrise_1.shtml)

Round 2

Type1

03.30.2019 01:56AM

Pro

Forfeited

RationalMadman

03.30.2019 06:23PM

Con

Judaism isn't based on the Talmud. The Talmud is not even equivalent to what the Hadith is to Islam.

In Islam the Qur'an is the undeniable holy 'words' but is actually only holy when spoken in Arabic by a fully trained and established Imam. Similarly in significance, the Old Testament Bible when written on a scroll in Hebrew (preferably by Rabbis but not necessarily so, just so long as they approved of all the wording) is known as a Torah Scroll and is the holy scripture of Judaism. What the Hadith is to Islam is an almost-as-significant application of Islamic morals by their prophet whereas Judaism doesn't truly have any one prophet (Moses is simply one of a few such as Noah and Abraham) and the Talmud is actually the equivalent of Sharia Law, not of the Hadith.

It is true that Judaism in the original concept of Israeli law, was aiming to be Jewish supremacist as the ethnicity had severe rage and vengeance towards Hitler and the people coming up with it felt such loathing towards the world for the wrongs done to their kind all the way back from the Ancient Egyptian Empire to Hitler's Germany. They had good reason to feel so much resentment and it is indeed suggested in the OT Bible that Semitic races have some kind of superior ability to get on God's good side than those that lack any such blood/genes. As I said, even if we took this seriously (which it isn't and modern day Israel has an active LGBT community among many other things that Sharia nations lack) and we ignore the fact that Israel and Jews of the modern age don't consider the Talmud valid in many ways, we still would reach the conclusion that Judaism is about ruling as a superior but merciful being in authority whereas Islam is about feeling entitled to abuse all those that God has granted you power over, especially if they treat you with arrogance or ignore your command and love each other without your permission (such as that story where the lovers were stoned for extramarital sex despite being blackmailed into not having married one another in the first place and genuinely being in love). Islam is not about ruling ruthless and fair, at least not in many parts of its scripture, rather it is a 'with me or against me' mentality where anyone who isn't Muslim to the exact degree you are is either a false-idol-worshipping Muslim-poser or is a non-Muslim. In fact women not covering up is based on the idea that men should be entitled to rape them if they are not and that it's immoral to show beauty to the unworthy who can't handle it (the two go hand in hand).

I don't quite think you can call Islam superior to Judaism from any angle other than that it spreads faster and instils fury better. That is not exactly what I would call a 'superior' ideology but simply one to be concerned about if the followers aren't willing to ignore many parts of the scripture and instead apply it peacefully.

I have no issue with peaceful Muslims but I am sure they'd admit that the religious scripture that Islam is based upon is outdated and has very shocking teachings and values that must be totally ignored in order to be a peaceful Muslim.

Round 3

Type1

04.02.2019 06:23PM

Pro

Forfeited

RationalMadman

04.02.2019 06:30PM

Con

Forfeiting all Rounds after Round 1 meets the Full Forfeit definition on the Code of Conduct.

YitzGoldberg

07.12.2019 01:46AM

#10

-->

@Dr.Franklin

I hope so!

Dr.Franklin

07.12.2019 01:16AM

-->

@YitzGoldberg

This site is cool

Jonathan-Horowitz

07.12.2019 01:15AM

-->

@YitzGoldberg

Oh, ok.

YitzGoldberg

07.12.2019 12:43AM

-->

@Jonathan-Horowitz

I’m not sure about the site, it sounds like a joke, but I’m the same person you spoke with last week and it might be the avatar pic which got you confused there, but that’s alright. As previously agreed, we will carry on with our current plan. If you wish to debate someone else at the same time concerning these issues, just make sure he isn’t another Yitzhak, haha!

Jonathan-Horowitz

07.11.2019 09:12PM

-->

@YitzGoldberg

Shalom Mr. Goldberg,

A few days ago a friend recommended me to your site, Spoiledjewishbelifs.com where I read all you had to say about Kabbala and it very similar, quite remarkably close to many views but not necessary my own beliefs. You see I identify as a Maimonidean, a follower of the great philosopher, Maimonides, in what some call the more rational part of Judaism and so I’m curious to have an open dialogue with you. I would feel honored if you were to discuss with me a little more about your beliefs regarding mysticism and see where we find common ground, regarding the soul, truth, and G-d. I think both of our beliefs have insights to share with the rest of humanity and look forward to chatting online. Let me know if you would share a similar interest in this open dialogue. I don’t necessarily see this as a debate but, more of respectful discourse and an opportunity to grow and learn new things from both camps. If you choose not to hold this discussion, I perfectly understand and respect your wishes. Thank you and I look forward to our discussions.

Thank you and I look forward to our discussions.

YitzGoldberg

07.11.2019 08:32PM

Maybe it'd be better if this person debated a real Jew? I, however, am not interested because these sorts of people don't change their minds. Anti-Semites will be anti-Semites, regardless what you bring to the table.

Wrick-It-Ralph

03.30.2019 12:14PM

Following this one. It's nice to see a debate that isn't specifically about Christianity for once. Nothing against those debates. It's just there's soooo many of them.

David

03.27.2019 02:28AM

-->

@Yassine

@Alec

I’d rather debate the whether Judaism or Islam is true

Yassine

03.24.2019 09:39PM

- Yeah, sure. Why not.

Alec

03.24.2019 05:19PM

-->

@Yassine

@David

Maybe you both can debate this topic with each other if your both interested.

Alanwang123

04.04.2019 12:14PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Full forfeit

Melcharaz

04.02.2019 08:49PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Full forfeit, Also, pro shows signs of being anti semitic in his approach and shows terrible understanding of historical facts and understanding of the jewish people entirely.

killshot

04.02.2019 08:05PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

owned.....

oromagi

04.02.2019 06:57PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Full Forfeit

Ramshutu

04.02.2019 06:38PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Full forfeit