Instigator / Pro

7000series

1511

rating

debates

38.64%

won

Topic

#6021

Dragonite is a B teir Pokemon.

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Winner

After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...

7000series

Tags

Pokemon

Parameters

Publication date: 03.20.2025 01:22PM
Last updated date: 04.01.2025 01:28AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Winner selection
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

player10034

1500

rating

debates

0.0%

won

Description

OPP wins the debate if they prove that Dragonite is in any tier other than B

Round 1

7000series

03.21.2025 09:55PM

Pro

Semantics:

For those unfamiliar with the tier system, it ranks things on a 6 point scale, with the “S tier” being absolutely supreme, and with the “F tier” being absolutely dogwater. Right in the middle, there is the “B tier”, meaning “good”.

This means that if I prove that Dragonite is good, then I win the debate. However, if OPP proves that Dragonite is either better or worse than good, then OPP wins the debate.

To measure “good”, I will be using the metrics of gameplay and marketability.

The gameplay experience of dragonite is good, but not great:

In the games, Dragonite fills the role of a highly offensive physical attacker. Due to “dragon dance”, Dragonite can buff itself to sweep the opponent’s entire team. In generation one, Dragonite was one of the most competitive pokemon. But as the games kept evolving, power creep slowly pushed Dragonite out of the competitive spotlight. This all changed back in the eighth pokemon generation released in 2019, and now Dragonite is powerful once again.

This brings me to my first problem with Dragonite. Across generations, Dragonite has been inconsistent. Is Dragonite defensive, offensive, or even good? Does Dragonite have many high accuracy attacks? Can Dragonite use dragon dance? The answers to all of these questions have changed across generations.

The marketability of Dragonite is good, but not great:

Dragonite was the first dragon type pokemon, and so Gamefreak took extra time on its design. The design of dragonite was originally simplistic, with light oranges and round lines. This design emphasized that Dragonite was the good-guy dragon, in contrast to scarier dragons such as Rayquaza. Fans loved Dragonite, and throughout the Pokemon anime, Dragonite’s personality was fleshed out into a Dragonite of loyalty, friendship, selflessness, and honor.

However, Dragonite is poised in the awkward limbo between a scary dragon powerhouse, and a Snorlax-esque cuddly pokemon. People who like big scary pokemon don’t choose Dragonite, they choose Gyrados. And people who like cuddly pokemon don’t choose Dragonite, they choose Snorlax or Pikachu. Ultimately, Dragonite proved to be not much more than a template for more unique later pokemon.

player10034

03.21.2025 10:12PM

Con

Ash Ketchum Dragonite literally won my heart

Literally a whole ton of people use dragonite in pvp. It being a Psuedo Legend With the 600 base stats and 134 attack stat, dragon dance will hit like a rock on anyone guaranteed. Even with 80 speed, it can still learn agility Also its design is amazing and can be labeled as cute and furious so stop trollingg

Round 2

7000series

03.23.2025 04:00PM

Pro

Counters:

Ash Ketchum Dragonite literally won my heart

This is irrelevant because out of one-thousand pokemon, every single one of them is the favorite of not just one, but many people. Even Flamigo has a fan-base, and Flamigo is literally a Flamingo.

Literally a whole ton of people use dragonite in pvp. It being a Psuedo Legend With the 600 base stats and 134 attack stat, dragon dance will hit like a rock on anyone guaranteed.

You have explained how powerful Dragonite is, yet you have not explained how Dragonite’s power increases the gameplay experience. As of the ninth generation, many people think that Dragonite is too powerful for fun. One in five teams use Dragonite, and many people are tired.

On the other hand, Dragonite is very flexible due to its large movepool, and dragon dance works to clear stalled boardstates. That is why Dragonite is B-tier, as in good but not great.

Even with 80 speed, it can still learn agility

This is not very impressive, as Nyble has a speed of only forty-five, and can still learn agility.

Also its design is amazing and can be labeled as cute and furious so stop trollingg

The design of Dragonite is inconclusive and confusing.

Dragonite looks derpy, yet supposedly has intelligence on par with a human.
Dragonite has disproportionately small wings, yet can supposedly fly around the globe in just a few hours.
In the games, Dragonite is known for knocking entire teams in six to eight turns, yet Dragonite supposedly spends its time swooping around, saving people lost at sea.

Still, the duality of Dragonite really resonates with some people. That is why Dragonite is B-tier, as in good but not great.

player10034

03.23.2025 04:16PM

Con

First off, Dragonite is top 20 minimum on fans favorite Pokemon based on surveys all around, so out of 1,025 its a top pick for many.

Second, people cant really get bored of using dragonite and other pseudo legendaries as they generally appear late in the game. Also back when battles were harder, these strong pokemon were needed to ensure you have a chance against a battle like Cynthia.

Thrid, the speed doesnt really matter with nymble as it is mainly irrelevant as its not evolved and just a small bug.

Finally, there are many people who love derpy and since the fanbase of pokemon is mainly geared towards children, it makes sense why a design would be like that

Overall Dragonite is much better in that respective right and giving it B is just wrong. Minimum it deserves A

Round 3

7000series

03.23.2025 11:55PM

Pro

Counters:

Dragonite is top 20 minimum on fans favorite Pokemon based on surveys all around, so out of 1,025 its a top pick for many.

This is a classic example of argumentum ad populum (appeal to popularity). To see why this is problematic, take cocaine, a massively popular drug among the upper and lower classes alike. Argumentum ad populum says that because cocaine is popular, then it must be good.

there are many people who love derpy and since the fanbase of pokemon is mainly geared towards children, it makes sense why a design would be like that

Dragonite’s derpness is not a design problem. Dragonite’s uninformed combination of mismatching personality characteristics is a problem. Pokemon is a kids game, so the characters should be clear cut and simple.

The design is fun and simplistic, but also confusing. Thus, Dragonite gets B-tier, for good but not great.

people cant really get bored of using dragonite and other pseudo legendaries as they generally appear late in the game.

Pokemon games are made to be enjoyed beyond the end of the game, through player-vs-player battles. Most serious players don’t stop playing the game after they have technically finished, they play against each other, and they still expect to have fun.

Dragonite does not meet this standard. Eighty percent of the Dragonites you see in pvp battles will have the same sweeper build, which is boring for both players.

But Dragonite is flexible, and can be loaded with surprise moves to make games more dynamic and interesting. That is why Dragonite is B-tier, as in good but not great.

Also back when battles were harder, these strong pokemon were needed to ensure you have a chance against a battle like Cynthia.

Generally, an informed stockpile of items combined with a well typed team will compensate for a lack of powerful pokemon. Gamefreak just likes to put win-condition pokemon in their games as a crutch for noob players.

player10034

03.25.2025 01:28AM

Con

You are trolling and thats all your doing. Dragonite is better that B, it is great and you are on crack

7000series

03.21.2025 10:08PM

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@player10034

That is embarrassing how I misspelled "tier" as "teir" in the very title of this debate.

Barney

03.25.2025 11:00PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Winner

1 point(s)

Reason:

This was a very uneven match, with con falling back on a compound error of Ad Hominem attack and No True Scotsman (saying anyone who doesn't love Dragonite must be trolling, since no true fan would say that).

Pro introduced the topic with a pretty simple metric, including two paths con could use to achieve victory. Con didn't really argue against pro's case that Dragonite is pretty good but not great, he just asserted that Dragonite is cool and popular.