Instigator / Pro

GetSniped

1500

rating

debates

0.0%

won

Topic

#5958

Free will is a lie

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Winner

After 4 votes and with 4 points ahead, the winner is...

vi_777

Parameters

Publication date: 02.17.2025 05:39AM
Last updated date: 02.24.2025 11:03PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Two hours
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Winner selection
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

vi_777

1500

rating

debates

66.67%

won

Description

No information

Round 1

GetSniped

02.17.2025 02:48PM

Pro

Forfeited

vi_777

02.17.2025 03:03PM

Con

1. Logic: The Importance of Free Will in Human Action

Argument: Free will is essential to moral responsibility and personal agency. Without free will, actions lose meaning because people would not be accountable for their choices. Logic dictates that responsibility requires choice: if individuals cannot choose their actions, it would be irrational to praise or blame them.

Supporting Points:

Responsibility and Accountability: If free will is a lie, the concepts of moral responsibility and justice become meaningless. We cannot hold someone accountable for something they had no control over. For example, we punish criminals because we assume they had the free will to commit their crime and could have chosen differently.
Choice and Ethics: In ethical discussions, the ability to choose freely underpins all moral decisions. If free will were a lie, there would be no ethical system that makes sense because it depends on the idea that people can make moral choices.

2. Philosophy: Free Will and Moral Philosophy

Argument: Major philosophical frameworks support the existence of free will. Notable philosophers argue that we do have the ability to act independently and make choices based on our desires and reasoning.

Supporting Points:

Immanuel Kant: Kant argued that moral agency requires free will. In his "Critique of Practical Reason," he emphasizes that for people to be held accountable for their actions, they must have the freedom to choose between different courses of action. Without free will, moral judgment loses its meaning.
Jean-Paul Sartre: Sartre’s existentialism posits that humans are condemned to be free. This "condemnation" means that humans have no choice but to choose and that this capacity for choice defines human existence. This indicates that freedom is fundamental to human life.

3. Science: Neuroscience and Psychology

Argument: While neuroscience shows unconscious brain activity before conscious decisions, this does not eliminate free will. The brain’s preparation to act does not negate conscious reflection and choice.

Supporting Points:

Neuroscience (Libet’s Experiment): Yes, the Libet Experiment suggests that unconscious brain activity precedes conscious awareness of decision-making. However, this does not eliminate free will. Libet himself concluded that while brain activity may "prepare" decisions, conscious veto power remains. We have the ability to stop or modify the actions the brain is preparing, which indicates some level of free will in our decisions.
Self-Reflection and Consciousness: Neuroscientific theories show that while unconscious processes influence our behavior, conscious thought and decision-making are central to human experience. Our brain doesn’t just react to external stimuli; it also reflects, deliberates, and acts based on reasoning, which suggests freedom of choice.

4. Compatibilism: Reconciling Free Will with Determinism

Argument: Free will can coexist with determinism, and the existence of determinism doesn’t negate human freedom. Compatibilism suggests that while our actions might be influenced by genetics or environment, we still retain the capacity to make independent choices within those influences.

Supporting Points:

David Hume (Philosophical Compatibilism): Hume argued that freedom is compatible with determinism. He defined freedom not as the absence of causes, but the ability to act according to one's desires and intentions. For instance, even though our desires may be influenced by our environment, we can still choose actions that align with those desires in meaningful ways.
Human Agency: Just because a person’s actions are influenced by their environment, biology, or past experiences doesn’t mean they have no free will. People can still act based on self-reflection, reasoning, and choices that feel autonomous to them, showing that free will exists within a framework of determinism.

5. Real-Life Examples: Free Will in Action

Argument: Free will can be seen in everyday actions and decisions, from personal habits to societal changes. People actively make choices based on their beliefs, values, and reflections, indicating that free will is a functional part of human existence.

Supporting Points:

Breaking Habits and Addiction: Many people successfully break free from addiction or unhealthy habits, showing that even when biology, environment, or past experiences influence their actions, individuals can make conscious decisions to change their behavior. This demonstrates autonomy and free will.
Social Change Movements: Individuals have made significant choices to challenge established norms—whether in civil rights, gender equality, or environmentalism. These movements are based on individuals’ choices to resist or alter societal norms, which highlights that free will plays a role in how we shape our future.

6. Conclusion: The Realness of Free Will

Argument: Free will is not a lie because it is essential for personal agency, accountability, ethics, and human progress. Philosophical arguments, scientific findings, and real-world examples all point to the fact that, despite the influences on our behavior, we still have the capacity to choose and exercise free will.

Round 2

GetSniped

02.17.2025 05:03PM

Pro

Forfeited

vi_777

02.17.2025 07:03PM

Con

Forfeited

Round 3

GetSniped

02.17.2025 09:03PM

Pro

Forfeited

vi_777

02.17.2025 11:03PM

Con

Forfeited

vi_777

02.19.2025 01:19AM

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@fauxlaw

i didn't see that, so........

fauxlaw

02.18.2025 07:14PM

-->

@vi_777

Then why did you accept the challenge as is? Why didn’t you ask Pro to change argument time before accepting the challenge?

vi_777

02.18.2025 12:14AM

-->

@fauxlaw

well the rzn of our forfeiture is that pro didn't set the time limit quite right<newbie> so with just 2 hours of time, we didn't get to express anything.

vi_777

02.17.2025 11:20PM

-->

@Best.Korea

well, yes ofc, so as long their actions weren't under them, it would be irrational.

Best.Korea

02.17.2025 08:24PM

"if individuals cannot choose their actions, it would be irrational to praise or blame them."

Exactly. It is irrational to blame anyone.

vi_777

02.17.2025 03:05PM

but well since u r a beginner, then no worries.
(｡◕‿◕｡)

vi_777

02.17.2025 03:03PM

-->

@GetSniped

DUDE, U SHOULD HV SET THE TIME CORRECTLY/

Lemming

02.18.2025 08:38PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Winner

1 point(s)

Reason:

RFV Forfeit by Pro

Lemming Thoughts
1. Logic: The Importance of Free Will in Human Action,
I'm not sure that something being important to humans, means it is 'true.
Actions losing meaning and people no longer being accountable. I'm not sure relates to the question of free will being true or not.
Also actions can arguably still be meaningful and people held accountable, even with a lack of free will.
Depends what one means by choose, 'or free will, I suppose.

Responsibility and Accountability,
We 'can still punish criminals, if we want to remove them from the population at large due to danger they exhibit.
Or if we think punishment will decrease likelihood others will preform said crime.
Even if we assumed we had not free will, we would still be a partial vessel or agent of causes and effects.

Choices and Ethics,
I think I've heard of religions and ethics that don't believe in free will though.

2. Philosophy: Free Will and Moral Philosophy,
I've nothing new to say.

3. Science: Neuroscience and Psychology
Libet Experiment, interesting, though Con might do well if they included sources and quotes.
Self reflection argument isn't bad, but all of that stuff 'in a person, some would argue get's 'placed there from without.

4. Compatibilism: Reconciling Free Will with Determinism
I like these arguments, Con appears to be going for a shotgun approach initially, as Pro has not defined or set goal posts for Free Will in debate.

5. Real-Life Examples: Free Will in Action
That only 'some people make said choices, would imply to some something 'different in said people that allows/caused said choice.
But again, depends on how one defines Free Will.

6. Conclusion: The Realness of Free Will
Free Will being essential for certain human actions, I think is Cons weakest argument.
Believing in something false can cause ends that would not result if not for belief in said falsehood, but such does not make said falsehood 'true.

tigerlord

02.18.2025 05:13PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Winner

1 point(s)

Reason:

Forfeit by pro

MAV99

02.18.2025 12:28AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Winner

1 point(s)

Reason:

Forfeiture by Pro.

I will say that Con presented an excellent moral argument for its existence.

fauxlaw

02.17.2025 11:29PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Winner

1 point(s)

Reason:

Full forfeiture by Pro, but also, an excellent first round argument by Con, with sufficient supporting sourcing, which was never challenged by Pro. For the future, suggest Con demonstrate a waive of every round forfeited by opponent so the rounds by Con are not considered forfeitures, themselves.