Instigator / Pro
1500
rating
0
debates
0.0%
won
Topic
#5957
The Big Bang didn’t happen
Status
Debating
Waiting for the next argument from the instigator.
Round will be automatically forfeited in:
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Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
1389
rating
406
debates
43.97%
won
Description
The big band and evolution are messed up propagandas the world tries to shove down our throats without enough evidence.
Round 1
Hi! Thanks for agreeing to debate with me!
People take the Big Bang theory for a fact while it remains as really just a theory. And most facts don’t match up with it, such as:
The odds:
The complexity of cells:
The Big Bang theory claims that essentially gas and particles were basically the only things in existence and they somehow made a big band that created life and matter.
I had a section in pages 70-81 in my book, “It couldn’t just happen” by Lawrence O Richards,
About the complexity of cells but I looked it up and found this online: http://www.esalq.usp.br/lepse/imgs/conteudo_thumb/The-Complexity-of-the-Cell.pdf it’s long and I didn’t read much of it, I’m not asking you to read it either it looks extensive but educational and I’ll probably read it eventually (it’s 24 pages).
But I couldn’t find a copy of my book’s text so I’ll quote some. In summary:
A lot goes into a living cell:
- A living cell needs 29 different kinds of amino acid for the protein. Scientists have tried to replicate those acids and have succeeded, but after 30+ years of experiments, 3 amino acids had not been made chemically-even in experiments designed to produce them! Also the way some of the acids must be made in a test tube, (using heat, gases, electricity, or ultraviolet rays) would destroy other amino acids (via the heat or other acids usually). So the chances of all 29 existing and surviving in the same place outside of a cell to create a cell is slim.
- Lipids: Cells need some “essential fatty acids” that cannot be produced in the body from other compounds but must come from eating proteins that already contain them.
- Porphyrin: An important molecule in hemoglobin, the element in red blood cells that carries oxygen. There must’ve been porphyrins for life to survive, without them oxygen breaks down the other chemicals in a cell. But porphyrin-like chemicals can only be made when there is free oxygen available. Amino acids can only be made where there’s no free oxygen, but Porphyrin is the opposite, so these two things could not have existed together to form the first cell. What’s more, many of these compounds will combine to destroy each other anywhere except within the living cell!
- DNA: To make DNA, you need DNA and all cells have it, where’d the first get it?
My book goes on to talk about proteins are chains of amino acids, with between 100 and 50,000 different amino links in each chain. There are an average of 400 amino acid links in the smallest living things. These acids have side groups, all in living things are on the “left side,” but half of the ones scientists produced were on the “right handed,” etc. I don’t understand it all. 😅
Using the probability theory, the chances of the smallest possible living thing just happening to have only left handed amino acids would be one in ten-followed by 123 zeros!
These chance of an amino acid chain with 400 units long happening by chance would be one in 10-followed by 240 zeros.
One mathematician figured that even if chemicals combined 150-thousand trillion times faster than they do in living things, and used all the chemical atoms on earth, there would only be one chance in the history of the earth!
If all the atoms in the universe were made into the chemicals from which DNA was formed, and were put together again and again at 8-trillion chains a second, the chance of a single DNA gene being formed would be ten-followed by 147 zeros years. To calculate that time another person imagined a snail moving so slowly that it took 3,810,000,000,000,000,000, years to travel one inch, if the snail carried one atom across the 30-billion light yeof our universe, it would take him about 4x10-followed by 125 zeros-years to produce a gene! Dr James F. Coppedge explains some of these in his book “Evolution: Possible or Impossible?”
Looking at the article I linked above it goes into detail on some things and adds a few I didn’t mention, if you want to check it out, here’s a little table of contents:
- “left handed cells” -pg. 5
- More odds: pg. 6-8
- DNA- pg. 15-17
Around 1953 Stanley Miller tried to create life in his lab and couldn’t, the details of his experiment are on pg. 10-13.
Placement and order
- The second law of Thermodynamics or the law of entropy says that anything that is organized tends to become disorganized and has been found to really apply to every physical process. The orderly world couldn’t have developed from chaos!
- If the world had been slightly closer or farther to the sun, bigger or smaller, we couldn’t exist, the settings are too perfect! The earth also ended up being the planet with all the resources to have everything we have today! Jupiter stops lots of asteroids from hitting us, etc.
- All humans, animals, and plants are interconnected to balance, feed, and support the ecosystems and each other, like in animals mutualism, when animals team up to help each other, etc.
Conclusion: It all points to a Creator
- Life can only produce life
- Such fine tuning isn’t an accident, there’s nothing that affects our living conditions on earth except death and sin. Even if the Big Bang was real, we’d probably be living in a harsh, hard to live in environment and the chances that we’d make it are so slim.
- The Bible points to God as the creator and sustainer of life.
It seems like Science is always changing, and making generalizations, what’s fact one second is proven wrong the next, it’s not a reliable source. However, the Bible has been unchanging for over 20 centuries.
Anyway What do you think?
(The “it couldn’t just happen book”, the Bible, and the link are the main sources I used I believe those are about it.)
"Anyway What do you think?"
I think there is no proof known that the "big bang" didn't happen.
Hence we're here and not just here but here in a parlay of it.
There is no proof broached and none presented by you.
So an assertive statement of it not happening is fallacious.
If you are going to argue a creator, an individual supernatural or Almighty entity is the cause of all existing, it still doesn't have to mean a bang didn't happen.
This entity could have done what people can refer to as a bang such as a bang of light and there was light.
So the two ideas don't have to contradict but can coincide, parallel, etc .
That's as about as far as it goes. If you say it can't, feel free to argue that next round.
Then there's the idea of parallel universes or multiple worlds and universes and the notion that everything always was.
You can explore that as well.
Round 2
“I think there is no proof known that the "big bang" didn't happen”
Yes, the truth is none of us can for sure stand with certainty and say they know what happened because yeah, we weren’t there. And I certainly don’t know for sure, and there’s no concrete ‘proof,’ what I meant was that the odds are slim and the world is shaped with such intentionality that it’s hard to believe it happened by mere chance.
“If you are going to argue a creator, an individual supernatural or Almighty entity is the cause of all existing, it still doesn't have to mean a bang didn't happen.This entity could have done what people can refer to as a bang such as a bang of light and there was light.”
Yeah everything is made to fit together in such a way that you can tell it’s intentional. Everything’s TOO precise to be an accident!
Fun fact: The Bible says “the heavens declare the glory of God,” and scientists have found stars singing!!
No, people try to justify the Big Bang around God but the Bible says that God spoke and there was light, If he’d wanted a big bang, he could’ve made it that way, but all he indicates is that he spoke. The Bible also says he commanded everything to produce after its own kind and that there was evening and there was morning, seven actual days. Refuting evolution. The Bible has been historically accurate, archaeologically accurate, translationally accurate, and more for more than 2,000 years!
Answers in Genesis is a great site full of answers to questions about creation, here’s one I just found, whether you believe in the Bible or not it has some ways that the Big Bang theory errors scientifically, just if you’d like to check it out: https://answersingenesis.org/big-bang/does-the-big-bang-fit-with-the-bible/
“Then there's the idea of parallel universes or multiple worlds and universes and the notion that everything always was. You can explore that as well.”
Well, I’m here to talk about the Big Bang mostly, that whole way of thinking is strange, I don’t believe it but idk any out of pocket facts to support or deny and idk what you believe and would like me to say. I’ll leave it there.
But really aren’t debates supposed to be two sided? What other facts/opinions/ect to you have to support your claim that the Big Bang happened or multiple universes exist? (If you’re on board with the multi-universe thing)
"what I meant was that the odds are slim and the world is shaped with such intentionality that it’s hard to believe it happened by mere chance."
This is different from the topic statement. The topic statement is presented and asserted as a matter of fact.
"No, people try to justify the Big Bang around God but the Bible says that God spoke and there was light, If he’d wanted a big bang, he could’ve made it that way, but all he indicates is that he spoke. "
Still doesn't mean when the light came it wasn't a bang . Scripture is not going to detail every single detail of everything.
"But really aren’t debates supposed to be two sided? What other facts/opinions/ect to you have to support your claim that the Big Bang happened or multiple universes exist? "
It depends on the terms of the debate. I see no where it was stated I had to prove anything. On top of that, I haven't made any assertive absolute statements to prove. However, you have in your short description and title. Now you're backpedaling on that.
So you haven't disproven the big bang. I have however demonstrated that the biblically account and an event called the "big bang" don't necessarily have to contradict.
.
Round 3
Not published yet
Not published yet
Nothing was ever created. It is not possible to create anything. Time isnt linear and time doesnt exist. Every "moment" in history always exists. There is no past, nor future.