There Is Good Reason To Deport Illegal Immigrants

The main argument against deportation is that America is built on immigration, so it is something that we shouldn’t try to restrict.

Yes, America is a nation of immigrants. I'm an immigrant, you're an immigrant. We're all descended, in one way or another, from immigrants. But, as Barack Obama once said, we're also a nation of laws. The American dream is not free. There are many who say that people like Trump were born into citizenship, so they don't understand the hardships as much. It's true. Most of us US-born Americans don't understand just how hard it is. But then again, US-born citizens also do understand that to live the American dream, you have to pay taxes. You have to learn English. You have to know at least enough history so that you can love your country and in that way, give back to it in exchange for the dream you are so lucky to have.

A good amount of people I know have family members who immigrated to this country. My grandma came here from a foreign country. She had to stand in line, learn the language, the history, and work hard day in and day out. That's a testament to just how much people are willing to work for the American dream. So you want the dream? You want to be a law-abiding citizen who can be a functioning, contributing member of society? Prove it. Pay your taxes, learn English, learn enough so that you can function and contribute to society.

And yes, many of those who enter the US are good people who just want a better life for their families. There are also the criminals and terrorists who would, could, and have taken advantage of an open border, entered the country, and done damage to American property and killed and raped innocent American citizens. So we at least need good screening at the border to ensure that FBI watchlist criminals don't enter the country, or members of globally-designated terrorist organizations. We need guards at the border to keep harmful narcotics from flowing into the country and hurting innocent people and children who don't know what they're getting themselves into. There's no way around that.

So you want to become an American? You can! By all means, become one. Trump doesn't aim to keep people out of the country just because of their race or culture. It isn't a racially-based thing. It is a legally-based, national security-based initiative that most straight-thinking politicians with just a little bit of common sense can understand.

I appreciate your thoughtful reply. Though I understand the points you make about the U.S. immigration history and the need for security, I must say I respectfully disagree with several parts of your argument.
To suggest that undocumented immigrants do not contribute to society or pay taxes is simply inaccurate. Research clearly indicates that these individuals pay a considerable sum of money in state and local taxes annually—taxes that go to fund the very services they and their families use. Studies also show that they contribute to Social Security through payroll taxes. Yet, as I indicated earlier, they don't get to reap any of those benefits because they can't claim them.
Second, with respect to language acquisition, research shows that today's immigrants are mastering English at the same rate or a faster clip than prior generations. The belief that they stubbornly cling to their mother tongues and eschew English isn't borne out by actual statistics. Most of them know full well that if they want to enjoy the fruits of a successful economy, they'd better get a handle on English.
While your worries are perfectly reasonable, they aren't quite right. Numerous studies indicate that immigrants, including those without papers, break the law much less than people born in this country. The idea that the uncontrolled southern border allows in would-be terrorists is not backed by the facts. Most of the terrorists we know about came here through legal points of entry.
The immigration system is broken. Too many people who want to legally immigrate range from the very old to the very young, with most prime-age and essential workers stuck in the middle, waiting for visas. Indeed, wait times can exceed two decades, and there are no practically effective legal pathways for many prime-age workers that could help solve our labor shortages.
Not only would mass deportation be inhumane, but it would also have a devastating economic impact. It would cost hundreds of billions of dollars, wreak havoc on several industries, and tear apart millions of mixed-status families, many with U.S. citizen children.
We should not emphasize deportation but rather direct our efforts toward comprehensive immigration reform. I mean by this a reform that is both practical and secure: practical in that it creates legal pathways for the millions of people living here without papers, and secure in that those pathways do not compromise the safety of our communities.

Thank you, McMieky for participating in this debate with me. It is fairly difficult to find respectful, clear-thinking debaters on this site. And I thank you for that, you provided a clear-minded, kind, and respectful response.

That being said, in almost every other sentence, you used the terms "research indicates," and "studies show." Your entire argument was backed up by research. But I can't take that research, or, for that matter, your argument seriously until you cite the studies that you have used and actually specify where you found those so-called "facts." 

You may be right about taxes, but I am having a very hard time finding any official government reports that support your "facts." I am not going to give a full response to that until you give me a good source that can actually back up what you said. And regarding language, I am not of the belief that they "stubbornly cling to their mother tongue." I simply said that that is one of the things that people need to do to become a functioning American citizen. I never said that they don't do it. It's also kind of funny that you're putting what I said under fire with the phrase "isn't born out of actual statistics," despite the fact that literally everything you have said is born out of statistics that I have yet to be shown, including your mysterious, unseen research that shows that today's immigrants are mastering English at the same rate or a faster clip than prior generations. Keep in mind that I am not saying that this research doesn't exist, just that I haven't seen it and therefore can not yet believe it.

According to a report released by U.S. Customs & Border Protection (Works Cited 1) shows us that last year, there were 17,048 illegal immigrants arrested on counts of crimes such as assault, larceny, fraud, driving under the influence, homicide, illegal drug possession and trafficking, illegal entry, illegal weapons possession, and sexual offenses. Granted, many more US-born Americans commit crimes than illegal immigrants. That makes perfect sense. Do you know why? Because there are 11 million estimated illegal immigrants living in the US compared to an over 340 million population. It's a matter of proportion. There are more US-born citizens committing crimes because there are way more US-born citizens than illegal immigrants. 

In response to what you said about terrorists, the idea that would-be terrorists and violent gang members legally enter the country is not true. Lately, the arrests of members of violent gangs and globally-designated terrorist organizations, such as MS-13 and Tren de Aragua, have been all over the news. Here's one ABC article (Works Cited 2) detailing the arrest of 25 members of the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua, who are currently being punished for illegally entering the country and committing violent crimes. Sure, some terrorists and violent criminals enter the country legally. But it's much harder for terrorists who are already on FBI, DHS, and CBP watchlists to enter the country legally than illegally, and it is also impossible to argue that of the estimated 11 million illegals who currently reside in the United States (as stated in Works Cited 3), none of those who entered are dangerous criminals or terrorists. It is just common sense to know that when the border is open and available for anyone to cross, someone is going to take advantage and enter America not for the American dream, but to harm the country. This fact has been well-known by Republican leaders (such as Trump) and Democrat leaders (such as Obama & the Clintons) alike for a long time. There are plenty of Venezuelan nationals from Tren de Aragua who have entered this country to actively harm people.

I also notice that you didn't say anything in response to what I said about illegal narcotics being brought into this country by illegal immigrants. The CDC showed in report (Works Cited 4) that drug overdoses in the United States have significantly spiked over the past several years, particularly in males. That all-time high of drug overdoses seems to coincide with a spike in seizures of illegal narcotics at the border (Works Cited 5). Granted, that could just be wild speculation, but it does seem fairly suspicious that drug overdoses hit an all time high at the same time that drug seizures spiked at the border, and then both of those statistics lowered almost in sync at the start of 2023.

I am with you all the way that the immigration system needs to be fixed so that the wait time isn't too long. It also needs to be fixed from the Biden-era open border that was so fast that it allowed millions to pour in illegally, including a mix of those who posed a threat to national security. And I do also agree that some tactics used in deporting illegal immigrants are inhumane and need to be fixed. I don't think that means we should stop with the notion of mass deportation, however. Instead, we should fix the transportation methods to make it more humane. 

But as far as economic impact goes, I'm going to have to say I disagree with your outlook. Sure, it would cost a lost of money. Sure, it would harm several industries. But illegal immigration has also already caused devastating economic impacts on some of the typically most prosperous cities in the United States. According to a report on illegal immigration by the House Budget Committee (Works Cited 6) that was filed at the start of last year, New York City had to put together $12 billion to pay for housing, food, healthcare, and other taxpayer-funded services for illegal immigrants. There were not enough undocumented workers who paid their taxes so that the city had to make a 5% budget cut across "a range of services, including sanitation, public education, and the police department." Similar reports have been made about Chicago, Denver, the District of Columbia, and multiple other major urban areas in the U.S. that have been forced to take in a massive number of illegal immigrants. Illegal immigration has already economically harmed America. American citizens' taxpayer dollars in major urban areas are now going more to helping illegal immigrants than helping actual American citizens.

1. https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics/criminal-noncitizen-statistics

2. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/25-members-tren-de-aragua-arrested-ice/story?id=118194113

3. https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/unauthorized-immigrants/estimates-unauthorized-immigrant-population-residing

4. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db522.htm#:~:text=After%20the%20age%2Dadjusted%20rate,5.7%25%20from%2019.4%20to%2018.3.

5. https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/drug-seizure-statistics

6. https://budget.house.gov/imo/media/doc/the_cost_of_illegal_immigration_to_taxpayers.pdf

Thank you, McMieky, for your thoughtful response. It's nice to have someone to debate with who actually participates.

On the topic of taxes, ITEP (Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy) is the sister organization to the liberal think-tank Citizens for Tax Justice. ITEP has been characterized as a liberal think-tank, and has historically favored the left rather than provide cold-hard stats that could go either way. And on your stats from the Social Security Chief Actuary, how does the Social Security Administration have any authority over addressing illegal immigrant taxpayers? If you're an illegal, you can't even get a social security number. So I don't think we should look at Social Security statistics.

My statistics on criminal arrests are actually not false. They were provided by a government agency that handles criminal arrests of illegal immigrants. There is nothing in there that is false. And you, once again, used a biased think tank. The Cato Institute is a libertarian think tank that, by no stretch of the imagination, can be used to compete with statistics provided by a government department. And it's not a question of which group (illegal immigrants or Americans) commit more crimes. The point is that when we let millions of illegal immigrants pour through an open border, it opens the door for criminals to come across the border, too, criminals who could be prevented from entering the country, but aren't just because a couple people want the American dream but refuse to go through the citizenship process. It's not a question of who commits more crimes, it's a question of how to prevent more crime from happening. 

On the drug crisis, you're probably right. It was false correlation. As I said: "this may just be wild speculation..." I didn't provide it as a serious part of my argument, I just showcased it as a possible argument. 

I don't get why you needed to put the word illegally in quotation marks. Were you trying to say that the distribution of deadly fentanyl among the American people without a medical license or medical reason is not illegal? Because it is. It's completely illegal. And as for this whole DEA report; I don't see it. Where's the report? You're not providing your sources again. You provided reports from Congress and the CDC, nothing from the DEA and nothing explaining points of entry for illegal drugs. 

The American Action Forum is also biased. I want to see an actual government report in place of these ITEP, Cato, and AAF things. I totally agree with you on a more streamlined legal path, better border technology, and employment verification systems. But we need to send a message: if you want the American dream, you need to go through the citizenship process. In reality, it's a small price to pay for the right to live in such a great country. 

I also agree that some of the methods used for transporting deportees is inhumane (such as when they shackled deportees to the wall of transport planes), but that doesn't mean that we should stop, we should merely revise those inhumane practices that can be avoided. 

 

And that last paragraph that you wrote injected so many statistics yet there wasn't even a mention of where you got them. Once again, I can't take your argument seriously if it's built on stats from non-existent sources. Sure, illegal immigrants can add to our GDP. But they can also drain law enforcement resources or, as the City of New York experienced, cause American governments to have to cut funding in programs for actual American citizens in order to help those who didn't bother to go through the citizenship process.

I appreciate your participation and the logic you attempt to use in your arguments, but the logic is worthless when it's backed up by mysterious ghost sources and statistics from biased think-tanks.

I really wish we could have continued with this debate, but I suppose you probably have a good reason to not do so.