Instigator / Con

Mall

1389

rating

413

debates

44.55%

won

Topic

#5915

Is the God of Abraham a murderer?

Status

Voting

The participant that receives the most points from the voters is declared a winner.

Voting will end in:

Tags

Bible

death

scripture

plague

Parameters

Publication date: 01.25.2025 10:00PM
Last updated date: 03.06.2025 05:48PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 5
Time for argument: One week
Max argument characters: 30,000
Voting period: Six months
Point system: Winner selection
Voting system: Open

Contender / Pro

JudgeHolden

1500

rating

debates

0.0%

won

Description

Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.

Send a message for questions on the topic.

Please do not accept if you foresee yourself not having time to participate.

Round 1

Mall

01.28.2025 04:21PM

Con

The onus scripturally is on the affirmative side.

Please go to website address:

https://youtube.com/@j.talkstothepeopleradio6008

There is a most recent video called Is God evil I believe.

Check it out. Critique and compare to this exchange.

So to the opposing side, the floor is yours.

JudgeHolden

01.28.2025 10:29PM

Pro

To justify the claim that the God of the Bible is guilty of murder I think it would be good for us to define what it means to be a murderer. The definition that I would hold to and believe to be fairly normative is that murder is the crime of unlawfully and unjustly killing a person. To commit murder is not merely to kill but do so without sufficient moral reason and in violation of the law. I argue that the killings contained in the Bible perpetrated directly or indirectly by God do not fit under that definition and that it is impossible by the very nature of who God is to commit an unjust or illegal killing.

To the vast majority of Jews, Christians, and even Muslims, God is defined as omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient among other qualities.. God is aware of the totality of possible knowledge and the consequences of every potential action or inaction. He is also infinitely loving and has a perfect understanding of moral knowledge. Human beings are very much unlike God in this sense, we are far from omniscient or infinitely loving and we possess an imperfect understanding of morality. We are as a result unable to act anything like God nor can we hold him to our legal standards. An example that gives insight as to why this is true is that of a citizen without legal jurisdiction catching someone shoplifting. If that citizen proceeds to kidnap and hold such a person in their house as punishment and forces the shoplifter to pay a fine then they are clearly engaged in a crime themselves even though the police routinely do similar without consequences

Police are equipped to carry out and exercise the law in a way that a regular person can not. They recieve years of training and have the resources to effectively detain a person. Our legal process and courts are also equipped to judge a persons guilt and sentence them to punishments proportional to whatever crime they committed.

God is like this but on an infinitely larger scale. If God performs a killing his infinitely loving nature and perfect understanding and appreciation for moral law preclude that killing from being unjust. We also don't have all the circumstances and information that would lead to God commanding a killing. Perhaps if a person or people group were to continue existing millions more would perish in the far future as a result. In that situation it would be in at least some moral ontologies immoral for God to not kill while possessing such knowledge.

The simple reality is that if God is who the Bible says he is any killing that he ordered or carried out must have been justified in a way that salsifies his infinite love and goodness in coordination with his perfect moral judgement. Since humans possess none of theses attributes we cannot accurately label God as a murderer

Round 2

Mall

01.29.2025 10:41PM

Con

Your position is yes, God is a murderer by being "pro".

So do you just agree with my side of "no" to the question?

JudgeHolden

01.29.2025 10:59PM

Pro

My bad I misread the topic. I think it would be best for me to forfeit

Round 3

Mall

02.01.2025 03:35PM

Con

I have another topic challenge out.

If you believe and or can argue that Jesus supported divorce , let's discuss it out.

JudgeHolden

02.08.2025 03:35PM

Pro

Forfeited

Round 4

Mall

02.08.2025 10:25PM

Con

I take that as no .

This site wasn't what it used to be.

JudgeHolden

02.15.2025 10:25PM

Pro

Forfeited

Round 5

Mall

02.21.2025 02:08PM

Con

Don't be a stranger.

JudgeHolden

02.28.2025 02:08PM

Pro

#10

Forfeited

fauxlaw

01.27.2025 10:44PM

-->

@Mall

Voting period ought not exceed 30 days. No, there is no standard suggested, but six months is excessive.

Mall

01.26.2025 06:46PM

You guys getting sharp huh, getting wise .

Barney

01.25.2025 11:44PM

Really depends how murder is defined. That said, miscarriage is considered murder in some places, and God takes responsibility for all of those.

Mall

01.25.2025 11:09PM

In reference to the time to vote, give plenty of time for thoughts and mind changing.

Best.Korea

01.25.2025 10:35PM

By US law, yes he is.

Skipper_Sr

01.25.2025 10:16PM

-->

@Mall

May I hear your thoughts on why you chose for the debate voting time to be six months?

It's a genuine question. I've seen others do this, and it seems like a very long time to wait for the debate to be finished

fauxlaw

03.06.2025 05:48PM

Criterion

Con

Tie

Pro

Points

Winner

1 point(s)

Reason:

Both Pro's [JudgeHolden] R1 and R2 arguments were sound, and would have been successful arguments against the Resolution, but for the fact that Pro misread the Pro and Con sides of the argument, and, therefore, fully forfeited the debate. R1 by Pro was a brilliant piece of argument against the Resolution. By the way, I did not like Con's R1 at all, introducing an outside reference rather than merely using the referenced YouTube device in his own words as argument against the Resolution.

tigerlord

03.06.2025 05:23AM

Criterion

Con

Tie

Pro

Points

Winner

1 point(s)

Reason:

FF from pro