Instigator / Pro
0
1287
rating
347
debates
39.91%
won
Topic
#5742
4 year-old boy has a right to change his gender and to completely transition if he wants
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After not so many votes...
It's a tie!
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 4
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
0
1500
rating
2
debates
75.0%
won
Description
No information
Round 1
Okay, so by accepting this debate, you have already agreed that 4 year old boy wants it.
He wants it. He wants to transition.
So he should be allowed to transition completely.
Everyone has freedom and passion.
Ok, I don't understand how I agreed that he wants it but whatever, let's go with that.
Children don't have the mental capacity to decide to alter their genitals. They can transition once their brain develops.
If a 4-year-old wanted to end their life, then should we let them do that? Should we let them get into cars with pedophiles if they want the candy they were offered? If they want to do crack, then should we let them?
It's absurd to let children potentially ruin their lives to further your agenda. If the child realizes at a later age that they've made a terrible mistake, then there's no going back for them.
I think that you're incredibly creepy for wanting to influence kids to transition. You sound like a pedophile the way you talk about kids knowing about sexuality and gender at such a young age. I really thought the hate your community gets was undeserved, but now I get it. You're a bunch of chomos trying to legalize and justify your grooming practices. I reserve the right to bear arms so that I can deal with despicable pedophiles like you if you ever come for my kids. You said trans people get bullied and attacked in our last debate. Maybe it's because your community has vastly overstepped their bounds when it comes to peoples' kids. If you really want to be so involved with the genitals and sexuality of preschoolers, then I hope you get bullied and attacked because that's what pedophiles deserve. Not because your trans but to protect children. It's sad that the movement of gay people's rights has been infected by you creeps because they're a lot more reasonable. Thank you for opening my eyes to the despicable nature of your movement. All I've heard you say that trans people want is to alter toddlers' genitals. Now if I see a trans person getting attacked then I won't help them because I'll just assume they're a pedophile like you.
Round 2
Ok, I don't understand how I agreed that he wants it but whatever, let's go with that
Its literally in the topic. It says "if he wants".
Thus, debate already establishes as truth that he wants it.
Do people even read topic before they accept?
Oh well, I guess I should only make topics with 3 words so its not too complicated for people.
I understand that not everyone is on my level. Not everyone can be as good as me, but still when stepping into debating topic, one should probably read the topic before accepting. One should read the whole topic, not just first few words.
Children don't have the mental capacity to decide to alter their genitals. They can transition once their brain develops.
By accepting this topic, my opponent has already conceded that boy wants it, which means he also logically has mental capacity to want it.
Even if he cannot decide, it doesnt change the fact that he wants it, so he should be allowed to and has right to.
If a 4-year-old wanted to end their life, then should we let them do that? Should we let them get into cars with pedophiles if they want the candy they were offered? If they want to do crack, then should we let them?
I am not going to discuss irrelevant topics. The topic is transition. Really, people need to learn to stay on topic.
I can easily demonstrate why your logic is stupid tho.
Here, lets look at basic premises:
1. Suicide is bad
2. Transitioning isnt suicide
C. Transitioning isnt bad
It seems that my opponent is promoting transition by pointing out how its better than things he mentioned.
However, nothing my opponent says changes the fact that 4 year old boy wants to transition, thus he has right to.
Him not having right to suicide when he wants to doesnt change that he has right to transition if he wants to. Thus, 4 year old boy has a right to completely transition. People should support his transition. Want of transition and transition is most important thing in the world, thus it stands as undeniable fact that 4 year old boy has right to transition.
It's absurd to let children potentially ruin their lives to further your agenda. If the child realizes at a later age that they've made a terrible mistake, then there's no going back for them.
Some children ruining their lives with transition doesnt change the fact that transition should happen. They want transition, thus it should happen. Its their right. Everyone should tell them that they have right to choose what they want to be.
Many lives are ruined by child birth, and transition prevents procreation, so we could say transition prevents ruined lives.
I think that you're incredibly creepy for wanting to influence kids to transition. You sound like a pedophile the way you talk about kids knowing about sexuality and gender at such a young age. I really thought the hate your community gets was undeserved, but now I get it. You're a bunch of chomos trying to legalize and justify your grooming practices. I reserve the right to bear arms so that I can deal with despicable pedophiles like you if you ever come for my kids. You said trans people get bullied and attacked in our last debate. Maybe it's because your community has vastly overstepped their bounds when it comes to peoples' kids. If you really want to be so involved with the genitals and sexuality of preschoolers, then I hope you get bullied and attacked because that's what pedophiles deserve. Not because your trans but to protect children. It's sad that the movement of gay people's rights has been infected by you creeps because they're a lot more reasonable. Thank you for opening my eyes to the despicable nature of your movement. All I've heard you say that trans people want is to alter toddlers' genitals. Now if I see a trans person getting attacked then I won't help them because I'll just assume they're a pedophile like you.
None of these personal attacks change the fact that boy wants to transition. He should be allowed to transition.
If my opponent wants to debate about pedophiles, then he probably should have asked to debate that topic and not this one.
However, he is trying to debate irrelevant topics here, and does personal attacks, so there goes the conduct point.
"He wants it, so he should be allowed to and has right to."
Just because someone wants to do something doesn't mean that they have the right to do it. There are plenty of things I'd like to do that I don't have the right to. There are plenty of things I wanted to do as a kid that I didn't have the right to do. Is there any other reason why transitioning is a right besides "they want to"? Wanting to do something is not a good enough reason to be considered a right.
"Boy wants it, which means he also logically has mental capacity to want it."
Just because someone is capable of wanting something doesn't mean that they grasp the consequences. Children have to be protected because they don't understand the weight of the consequences of their actions, and therefore, aren't able to consent to certain things. That's why statutory rape is a crime.
"They want transition, thus it should happen. Its their right"
Just because you want something doesn't mean it's your right.
"Some children ruining their lives with transition doesn't change the fact that transition should happen."
I disagree with this statement in its' application to the boy. I think we should protect children from ruining their lives, especially really young ones.
I apologize for my earlier personal attacks. I'm very passionate about protecting children from abusers and I personally view the act of altering a preschooler's genitals as sexual abuse whether or not they consent because children can't consent to sexual acts. Do you think children are mentally capable of wanting or deciding to have sex? I would argue that changing one's genitals requires the same, if not more mental capacity and decision-making ability than consenting to sex would. Do you think it requires greater decision-making ability to consent to sex or to change one's gender?
Round 3
Just because someone wants to do something doesn't mean that they have the right to do it. There are plenty of things I'd like to do that I don't have the right to. There are plenty of things I wanted to do as a kid that I didn't have the right to do. Is there any other reason why transitioning is a right besides "they want to"? Wanting to do something is not a good enough reason to be considered a right.
Someone not wanting something not meaning that they have right to do it doesnt change that boy wants to transition, thus he should be allowed to. Transition is more important than any other thing, thus not having right to some other thing doesnt mean not having right to transition.
Just because someone is capable of wanting something doesn't mean that they grasp the consequences. Children have to be protected because they don't understand the weight of the consequences of their actions, and therefore, aren't able to consent to certain things. That's why statutory rape is a crime.
Children not grasping consequences and being unable to consent doesnt change that if a 4 year old boy wants to transition, then he has a right to.
Just because you want something doesn't mean it's your right.
Wanting something not meaning its your right doesnt change that 4 year old boy wants to transition, thus its his right. Transition is most important. "Something" is not equal to transition.
I disagree with this statement in its' application to the boy. I think we should protect children from ruining their lives, especially really young ones.
Protecting children from ruining their lives doesnt change that transition is their right and that they want it. Its crucial that every child knows that they can be whatever they want to be when it comes to gender.
I apologize for my earlier personal attacks. I'm very passionate about protecting children from abusers and I personally view the act of altering a preschooler's genitals as sexual abuse whether or not they consent because children can't consent to sexual acts.
Even if children cant consent to transition, they still want it, so it is their right.
You saying that transition is sexual abuse doesnt change that children want to transition.
Do you think children are mentally capable of wanting or deciding to have sex? I would argue that changing one's genitals requires the same, if not more mental capacity and decision-making ability than consenting to sex would. Do you think it requires greater decision-making ability to consent to sex or to change one's gender?
This topic isnt about sexual activities. Transition is obviously more important than a sexual activity. Even if children cant consent to change gender, but they want to transition, so it is their right.
Children maybe can consent to sex, given how many sex offenders are children, but thats irrelevant to transition or this debate.
Wow, you actually just said that. I'm not even going to quote it, but the last line. You just outed yourself.
"Even if children can't consent to change gender, but they want to transition, so it is their right."
Ok, I think I might be confused with this line. When you say transition do you just mean wear the opposite genders clothes, and other appearance related choices? I don't really care if anybody does that because there's no permanent effects. I'll concede stuff like that to you. I'm really only concerned about the cases where their hormones or something else is altered permanently. Everything else is fine so long as it's age appropriate as far as I'm concerned. When you argue for trans rights, I assume your arguing for a right that you don't have yet. The only right that trans people don't have is permanently altering themselves at a young age. Just like as a guy who likes guns, I wasn't allowed to own one at age 10, but under proper supervision, I could shoot one that my family owns. That's because it would be absurd to let a child own their own gun but it's not bad for a kid to shoot one under proper supervision. I have the right to own guns, but just not at a young age, because they aren't toys.
My point is I don't care if a young boy wears some lipstick or if a girl wants to shave her head. They can do that if they want, and it doesn't bother me or any other reasonable person at all. They're allowed to do that currently and it is their right. I'll concede simple things like haircuts, lipstick, dresses, and other age-appropriate cosmetic choices to you. That is a right and I have no issue with it. Permanently altering the body at a young age and sexualizing children is wear I draw the line. Do you concede that permanently altering the body at a young age is bad?
Round 4
Wow, you actually just said that. I'm not even going to quote it, but the last line. You just outed yourself.
I dont know what is my opponent talking about, but anyway, as this is the last round, I guess I can just ignore his personal attacks and conspiracy theories about me and him judging entire group of trans people because of me, and I am not even completely trans, just partially, so if you are going to judge millions of people like that, then I guess nothing I can do about it. You would judge anyway, you just needed the excuse.
Ok, I think I might be confused with this line. When you say transition do you just mean wear the opposite genders clothes, and other appearance related choices? I don't really care if anybody does that because there's no permanent effects. I'll concede stuff like that to you. I'm really only concerned about the cases where their hormones or something else is altered permanently. Everything else is fine so long as it's age appropriate as far as I'm concerned. When you argue for trans rights, I assume your arguing for a right that you don't have yet. The only right that trans people don't have is permanently altering themselves at a young age. Just like as a guy who likes guns, I wasn't allowed to own one at age 10, but under proper supervision, I could shoot one that my family owns. That's because it would be absurd to let a child own their own gun but it's not bad for a kid to shoot one under proper supervision. I have the right to own guns, but just not at a young age, because they aren't toys.My point is I don't care if a young boy wears some lipstick or if a girl wants to shave her head. They can do that if they want, and it doesn't bother me or any other reasonable person at all. They're allowed to do that currently and it is their right. I'll concede simple things like haircuts, lipstick, dresses, and other age-appropriate cosmetic choices to you. That is a right and I have no issue with it. Permanently altering the body at a young age and sexualizing children is wear I draw the line. Do you concede that permanently altering the body at a young age is bad?
When I say allowing complete transition, I mean allowing surgeries and transition as desired by a boy. It says so in the topic. It says complete transition.
Well, what's great is that the voters can read what you said, and I see that you just joined a debate where you've taken the stance that child marriage is acceptable, so you further prove my point. You were right when you said I shouldn't judge millions because of you, but I certainly can judge you.
"When I say allowing complete transition, I mean allowing surgeries and transition as desired by a boy. It says so in the topic. It says complete transition."
At age 4, a child can't reasonably make the decision to permanently alter their body, and it is not a right they have as a child. It's unethical to let them do that to themselves. Your views on children are frankly disgusting and concerning. I'm tolerant of all people, except pedophiles. I'm very libertarian, meaning pretty much everyone is ok in my book, but I draw the line when it comes to children. Today, you've exposed yourself for being a pedophile. I don't care if the voters see it, but I certainly do and I'm calling you out on it. You're disgusting and I hope you get caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
So no arguments. Heh
"Children maybe can consent to sex"
What your opponent said wasn't a 'conspiracy theory,' you said it yourself. If you think a child can consent to sex, then you're insane.
That's disgusting.
"You're disgusting and I hope you get caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law."
Damn was that really necessary? I dont see why there are so many debaters who have to resort to this in a debate.
I guess the idea of formal and peaceful debate died long time ago.
There just needs to be made clear by rules if I am also allowed to use insults like these or not, or how much insults are allowed, because obviously these new people are not interested in formal and peaceful debates.
If they want to trade spam and insults as if this was YouTube, then they should probably come to forum and not pollute formal debates like this.
I have no problem with using spam and insults, but I was trying to distance myself from that for a long time to create better formal debates, but it seems some others still want for debate section to turn into sea of insults and spam as if that will help them somehow.
This debate was angry lol
Heh, I can make same challenge later.
Frick, i would have taken the challenge
You seem to hate pedophiles a lot, so would you like to debate if sex offenders should be severely punished?
Both
change gender as in socially or as in medically and physically?