Instigator / Pro
17
1442
rating
52
debates
58.65%
won
Topic
#5534

Women do not have a Constitutional right to abortion

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
3
9
Better sources
6
8
Better legibility
4
4
Better conduct
4
3

After 4 votes and with 7 points ahead, the winner is...

Barney
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
4
Time for argument
Two weeks
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
24
1815
rating
53
debates
100.0%
won
Description

No information

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

I was going to write a more in-depth RfD for this debate, but actually, I think I can keep it relatively simple yet complete.

The way I see it, there were two main issues at stake here. First, the idea of abortion not existing as a longstanding tradition in the US. Con, for whatever reason, brings up the Dobbs decision, which said that the Constitution provided no guaranteed right to abortion, but tries to argue that by the decision's own reasoning, it should be a Constitutional right. While I see what argument Con was going for, I don't think bringing up the decision helped them out in the end, as they referred to an actual decision on the matter of Constitutional law which directly contradicts their own case. Pro also points out the contradiction in saying that abortion was typically allowed before the quickening, but also that many enslaved women were forced to remain pregnant. I feel like this point goes to Pro.

The other major point for me was slavery. Con argues that pregnancy does count as a form of labor, and if a pregnant woman has no legal way to stop being pregnant, that is forced labor, which is slavery and outlawed by the 13th amendment. Pro's response to this argument feels fractured and I don't fully understand it. He tries to make a separation between institutional slavery and sex slavery, claiming that the 13th amendment specifically outlawed the former, but Con points out that the 13A outlawed all forms of slavery. Con also points to how, historically, female slaves were forced to remain pregnant and give birth specifically because it was financially advantageous to the slaveholder, meaning it was for the benefit of another person. In the end, I feel like Pro could have won on this point, but their arguments were just not it.

Since both sides agree that the Constitution does not specifically say that abortion is not a civil right, all Con needed was to demonstrate unconstitutionality through one good line of reasoning, and I think they managed to do that in this debate. Con wins.

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vi7wGmJhi7kMUBxz_QbRrAFPgo3m4zjKqmz3-7vnoXI/edit?usp=sharing

Long story short, I think a lot of the debate got mired in definitions, which ended up making it harder for Pro to focus on the more vulnerable elements of Con's argument. Given the burdens of the debate and what Pro had to do to meet them, Con only had to win one argument, and I think he did with the 13th Amendment.

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

https://youtu.be/Mfq98FqnxOQ

You can skip to the last 5 to 7 minutes for the vote

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

This debate took a while to read through. I will judge on what personally resonated with me.

Con provided a thorough and detailed analysis. They referenced multiple constitutional amendments, court cases, and historical context to argue that denying abortion is akin to slavery. They argued that the 13th Amendment prohibits involuntary servitude, which they extends to forced pregnancy. Pro focused on refuting Con's claims and provided counterarguments related to the 13th Amendment and the nature of abortion rights.

Pro's arguments were more compelling to me. Their effective rebuttals led to a more persuasive presentation of their case. I found their counterarguments offered a clearer interpretation of legal texts. The contradictions brought up personally made sense. When Con made an attempt to address those contradictions, the explanations did not fully resonate and make sense to me.

Con cited various sources, from historical documents to legal definitions, which greatly supported their case. Pro used legal and historical references to challenge Con's points. However, the sources often seemed less focused on directly supporting their counterarguments. The sheer amount of sources on Con's side was also a persuasive element.

The conduct point was given to Pro because Con included vulgarity and a highly emotional approach. It certainly impacted my evaluation of their overall performance. Pro’s adherence to a more respectful approach contributed positively to their evaluation of conduct. Con's authoritative approach may have very well resonated with other judges, but not with me.