Instigator / Pro

7000series

1515

rating

debates

39.13%

won

Topic

#5365

Data doesn't lie.

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Winner

After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...

RationalMadman

Tags

Data

Parameters

Publication date: 03.15.2024 05:36PM
Last updated date: 04.19.2024 08:19PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 2
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 5,000
Voting period: One month
Point system: Winner selection
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

RationalMadman

1702

rating

574

debates

67.86%

won

Description

I will be arguing that data never lies.
To win this debate, you must prove that data sometimes lies.

Round 1

7000series

03.16.2024 08:12PM

Pro

The Oxford dictionary defines a lie as:

A lie is a statement not in accordance with the mind of the speaker, made with the intention of deceiving.

A spreadsheet is just a set of numbers without thoughts or emotions. Data does not have the intent to deceive.

Key takaways:

Data does not lie.
Data cannot lie.
PRO wins this debate.

And before you bring up a counter-definition, you should know that a British lexiographer wrote this really interesting blog post on why the Merriam Webster dictionary is garbage.

RationalMadman

03.18.2024 07:43PM

Con

My opponent defines a verb as a noun. If you observe his abusive definition that should make you puke upon your screen, it is so rigged it isn't fair.

I can dance but I can't dance if dance means the dance event or sport itself.

Data does lie.

One of many applicable definitions of the verb 'lie' is:

a
to occupy a certain relative place or position
hills lie behind us

b
: to have a place in relation to something else
the real reason lies deeper

c
: to have an effect through mere presence, weight, or relative position

merriam-webster

Data lies wherever it is stored and/or presented. Then one can even argue it lies in the memory of oneself in an intangible manner such as one who memorised their phone number, name etc.

Let's also define data to stop this abuser of semantics making this debate and unlovable trap for Pro. How filthy of them, vote against Pro without any mercy.

1
: factual information (such as measurements or statistics) used as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or calculation

2
: information in digital form that can be transmitted or processed

3
: information output by a sensing device or organ that includes both useful and irrelevant or redundant information and must be processed to be meaningful

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/data

Round 2

7000series

03.18.2024 10:16PM

Pro

Data lies wherever it is stored and/or presented.

This argument is so weak, even I could do better.

Data is an abstract concept, it doesn't take up physical space.

RationalMadman

03.20.2024 08:19PM

Con

This argument is so weak, even I could do better.
Data is an abstract concept, it doesn't take up physical space.

This is false.

To present data always requires a physical form in which it's stored, even if it's stored as memory space in the brain it's abstrace but taking up memory storage.

Savant

03.16.2024 04:03AM

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/263543/on-which-occasions-in-star-trek-the-next-generation-has-data-lied

baggins

03.15.2024 06:38PM

-->

@7000series

I think Benjamin said pretty much everything that could be said about this topic unless you wanna change your title?

7000series

03.15.2024 06:25PM

-->

@Benjamin

Shhhh

Benjamin

03.15.2024 06:07PM

-->

@7000series

Data doesn't lie. People lie using bad data. Lying requires intent.

Savant

04.02.2024 02:11AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Winner

1 point(s)

Reason:

Con argues that data "lies" wherever it is stored. Pro responds that data is an abstract concept, but Con points out that data is stored in physical forms. Technically Con brings this up in the last round, but it's in response to a last-round argument from Pro. Plus, Con had already implied that data could occupy physical space with the phrase "wherever it is stored." (They imply that data is stored tangibly by contrasting this storage with "intangible manners" of remembering things.)