THBT: Chess utilizes the highest forms of intelligence.
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After not so many votes...
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Rated
- Number of rounds
- 4
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
- Minimal rating
- 1,650
Definitions:
Chess- A board game of strategic skill for two players, played on a checkered board. Each player begins the game with sixteen pieces that are moved and used to capture opposing pieces according to precise rules. The object is to put the opponent's king under a direct attack from which escape is impossible ( checkmate ).
Highest- Higher in station, rank, degree, importance.
Forms- Versions or variations.
Intelligence- 1. The ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills. 2. The capacity of a person , for learning, reasoning, understanding.
Rules:
bop is shared
1. 1 forfeit = loss of conduct point. 2 = concession
2. No kritiks
3. Definitions are just examples of what the topic is about.
- What forms of intelligence are used, and why they are the highest.
- How chess applies its use and whether it is an accurate way of detecting/measuring said forms of intelligence.
- Memory: The power or process of reproducing or recalling what has been learned and retained.
- Attention: A condition of readiness for such attention involving especially a selective narrowing or focusing of consciousness and receptivity.
- Problem-solving: The process or act of finding a solution to a problem.
- Critical thinking: The act or practice of thinking critically (as by applying reason and questioning assumptions) in order to solve problems, evaluate information, discern biases.
- Language: Human speech including the units, nature, structure, and modification of language.
- Spatial Reasoning: The understanding of how objects can move in a 3-dimensional world.
- Executive Function: A set of mental skills that include working memory, flexible thinking, and self-control.
- Intuition: The ability to understand something immediately, without the need for conscious reasoning.
- Pattern Recognition: Identification of similarities within a particular data set, sequence, or even in comparison to other problems and solutions.
- Calculation: An assessment of the risks, possibilities, or effects of a situation or course of action.
Chess is a specialist game. You specialise in it, it has not got that many transferrable skills in life because life is full of incomplete information scenarios more like a poker table has. It's not full of complete information like Chess where there's no chaos meaning luck or variance and in real life there are many hidden factors at play.Chess in real life would work as a transferrable proof of intelligence if we as humans functioned in a world where we literally knew everything about the weather, what people feel, what words to put into a job application or report out of a limited number of moves etc. Instead, we live in a world of chaos with a lot of chaotic options and ways things can go.You don't just think about logical chains such as:this takes that piece and that piece then has to go here or there etc, you think damn I don't know where this piece is, that piece may have an agenda against both kings and this knight is currently having the flu but is willing to put in work anyway, though with obvious endurance issues.That kind of thinking and strategising around that would make Chess a far superior game to at least say represents real life intelligence. Instead, Chess is only a specific type of intelligence or 2 and those types are pattern recognition and resource management. They're only represented in a situation where you can see absolutely everything and no luck other than your opponent playing badly is the chaotic variance to factor in.
To get great at Chess you need to only study Chess players of the past, you don't even need to understand why they did what they did, you just need to memorise game after game, opening after opening, endgame after endgame and in the midgame have some nuance but not much. What separates the greatest from the above-average-but-not-that-great is they have excellent pattern recognition skills and memorised a lot.If you really were a genius, you'd actually resent Chess eventually. Chess limits you to a situation where you can't bluff your opponent, you cannot use your opponent's skills against them ever. There is absolutely no cunning in Chess at the highest level, instead cunning and creative moves work better at the lower levels because misdirection works better against opponents that know or practised less with Chess.
... this is not what a true genius would regard as the best way to show themselves to be it, ever. I have never once heard Bobby Fischer himself nor Magnus Carlsen of the modern era say they're GOATs due to their raw intelligence. Bobby Fischer was probably the most arrogant leader while he was ahead and had good reason to be, he said very bad things about Jews and has severe views on women being worse than men in Chess and such (that he watered down before losing his mind and taking up again later with fervor). If Fischer thought he was a genius, he'd have said it, yet he himself did not say this. He was asked what he'd be instead and said an athlete (I can't be bothered to find the specific interview right now).Here are some highlights of his most outlandish and/or arrogant statements:He regarded himself as many things, a genius itself wasn't one of them.In actual fact, Hikaru Nakamura, one of the world's current best bullet and blitz player (fast chess) explicitly says it's wrong to constantly associate intelligence with Chess.It's debatable where exactly in the top 3-4 to rank Nakamura in blitz and rapid variants of Chess but everywhere regards him as 2-3 or at worst 4.Now, despite this, Nakamura has come out and shockingly told us that his only (unofficially) tested IQ is 102 (he obviously is higher, but how much higher exactly?)this is a humorous example of him proving that outside of Chess he does struggle (this is not a skit at all he was genuinely trying):The reality is that Chess is about visual intelligence and awareness of resource exchange. The whole vibe you can think way past that if you're a genius and crack it down to pure logic is only true for AI supercomputers, not humans.
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The resolution says 'highest forms' which already is a contradiction as there is only 1 highest anything of anything unless they're somehow tied 2nd or 3rd together with no first. I knew this didn't matter because Pro's debate description defines 'highest' instead as 'higher'. However, I ask you to forcefully insert the word 'all' into the debate title to counteract this filthy play, otherwise Pro can't lose since they banned Kritiks.'all higher forms' where higher is defined as the top 49% of intelligence forms is the only fair interpretation of the resolution that allows Con a path to win. Otherwise, Con is forced to Kritik that there is no true ranking of forms of intelligence, which is banned by the 'no Kritik' rule or Con is forced to have to state which form is the one highest, only to be told by Pro that the debate description defines 'highest' as 'higher'.
To get great at Chess you need to only study Chess players of the past, you don't need to understand why they did what they did, you need to memorise game after game, opening after opening, endgame after endgame, in the midgame have some nuance but not much. What separates the greatest from the above-average is they have excellent pattern recognition skills and memorised a lot.If you really were a genius, you'd resent Chess eventually. Chess limits you to a situation where you can't bluff your opponent, you cannot use your opponent's skills against them ever. There is no cunning in Chess at the highest level, instead cunning and creative moves work better at the lower levels because misdirection works better against opponents that know or practised less with Chess.
The GOATs have genuinely never prided themselves on being genius intellect. When I say never, I mean never.
Language: Human speech including the units, nature, structure, and modification of language.
The chess bots that outperform human players possess each of the three skills that every chess player has, but only to a maximum degree. That, I said, is pattern recognition, intuition, and calculation.
3. Intuition and contextual understanding
When was the last time you saw a friend and immediately thought, “There’s something wrong here.”? You have no prior knowledge, no reason to think that there’s a problem before seeing them, and yet you take one look at them, and know that something is off. But then you asked them, and it turned out you were right.
This is a classic case of intuition, the ability to arrive at an opinion, decision, or understanding without conscious analysis. Most experts agree that intuition is a product of natural cognitive processes that stem from life experiences, pattern recognition, and prior (and possibly unrelated) knowledge. Essentially, having a gut feeling is your mind processing all incoming information, taking all contextual details, comparing it against the index of everything you know, and coming up with a conclusion — all of it subconsciously.
AI is incapable of this type of intuitive decision-making because its logical processes are intrinsically rigid and tied to its programming. It’s great at spotting patterns based on large-scale data and has been seen to imitate intuitive behavior, but that’s all it is: an imitation.
- Linguistic/philosophical reasoning
- Creativity and lateral thinking
- Comprehending incomplete information and making gambles (not gambits with pure calculation and complete information but gambles in fog of war poker cards face down type stuff)
- Intuition
Difficult to vote on. I think pro made the topic too open ended and did abuse some things here and there.
TBH more than intelligence, it needs a higher level of foresight and attentiveness.
24 hours is enough to give your wife the most mindblowing orgasm of the past 3 weeks, to have worked your best day at work after or before it (do the sex after, early morning sex is only that hot in the movies/series, you're more ready than she is as females gain libido throughout the day, males have it somewhat more earlier) and to have a great meal that you yourself cooked.
I ask you is this that day? If not the time is there. Just kidding, do a workout don't waste time here.
Don't know if 24 hours is long enough for me to get through and vote on this, but I'll try.
Please vote on this debate.
tagging u just incase your interested in this subject
i think this is a quick read if u guys would like to submit a vote
Meant the word aggressive is changed to offense, was distracted when I typed that.
I am interested in that debate if the word defense is changed to offense.
Longer times chess is where people bad at chess have the largest skillgap.
Shorter times chess at it's extreme also hurts them but blitz (3-5 mins or 3 mins with 2 seconds added per move), is one of the best formats to give your brain tiny bursts of thinking while the opponent can't think too deep still.
Bullet is generally 1 min per game or 1 min with 1 sec per turn added. Both are TOO fast for an inexperienced player to cope.
Go for blitz. It has the highest rate of 'upset wins' AKA underdog wins of all chess time formats.
im also out of my depth because i dont play chess or speed chess
the debate is just discussing theory
I dont think I would be much challenge there, since speed chess is far out of my abilities.
btw, i had another debate in mind.
the resolution is "aggression is better than defense in speed chess"
would any of u debate this? id like to be pro
I believe that the term "ranking" should've been used in the description instead of the term "rank" because it fits the definitions much better and flow better when in comparison. The word "Highest" is already a word that also indicates relevancy to the word "comparison" and that is because if "highest" is used as a superlative adjective as defined by "great, or greater than normal, in quantity, size, or intensity." then the word is used when compared to things or objects in space and time due to the fact that superlative adjectives are also used to describe an object which is at the upper or lower limit of a quality (the tallest, the smallest, the fastest, the highest). Superlative adjectives are used in sentences where a subject is compared to a group of objects.