Instigator / Pro
17
1500
rating
1
debates
0.0%
won
Topic
#5247

It is illogical to keep living & to create new life

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
30
Better sources
10
20
Better legibility
5
10
Better conduct
2
10

After 10 votes and with 53 points ahead, the winner is...

Benjamin
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Two weeks
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
Six months
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
70
1774
rating
98
debates
77.55%
won
Description

I am the creator of 2 unique philosophies, namely existential antinatalism (the idea that procreation is illogical) & existential promortalism (the idea that it is logical for any mortal living being to die as soon as possible).

I should start by differentiating existential antinatalism/promortalism from contemporary antinatalism/promortalism. The latter 2 are against procreation & continued living respectively, but on the basis of ethics/morality. Ethics/morality is a completely fictitious concept & this can be easily proven.

Firstly, David Hume’s “is-ought” gap can be solved, but the solution has nothing to do with morality. It can only be solved by determinism/causation e.g a ball that is held up in the air is let go. What ought to happen? It ought to fall down. The, “is” statement is the fact that the ball has been let go and the, “ought” statement is the fact that it must fall down. I state that morality is fictitious because it fails to solve what I call the, “ought-ought” gap. Since deriving an, “ought” from an, “is” has nothing to do with morality, the only other option to try & prove moral realism is to try to derive an, “ought” from another, “ought”. Unfortunately, this is impossible, because it results in an infinite regress of, “ought” statements. E.g If you try to justify, “ought” claim-1 with, “ought” claim-2, you are implying that, “ought” claim-1 requires justification, because it is an, “ought” claim. This further implies that, “ought” claim-2 requires justification as well. Attempting to do so with an, “ought” claim-3 results in the same problem, leading to an infinite regress of, unjustifiable, “ought” claims.

It argues in favor of both, with 3 arguments.

The first is called the argument from unnecessary complexity. It states that in the world there exist living things and non living things & both serve the same purpose, which is obedience of the laws of physics. However, the non living things can do this job by themselves, meaning that the existence of living things adds unnecessary complexity to the world. Thus, it is more logical to make the world simpler by removing the already existing living things & not bringing more new ones.

The second is called the argument from a lack of purpose. It states that it is impossible to prove that a living organism must continue living or that it must create new life, since this would amount to a moral claim & morality is a fictitious concept. As such, it is illogical to do something that you have no obligation to do. One could argue that there is no moral obligation to be dead either so being dead is illogical. This is false, because dead things do not exist any more & the characteristic of being logical or illogical cannot apply to the them.

The third is called the argument from a universal solution. It states that every living thing has to solve problems. The word, “problems” here, is used in a general sense, to refer to having desires. To have a desire simply means to want something. The nature of the desire, doesn’t matter. It could be anything, no matter how big (wanting to run for president) or small (wanting to go to the toilet). This argument states that it is illogical to create offspring who will have desires, since they did not need or want anything before they were born. It goes on to state that death is the most logical reaction to having any desires, because death gets rid of desires themselves. Consider for example, the fact that humans need to eat food to stay alive. Instead of dealing with your hunger by eating food, if you instead die, you would permanently, no longer even need to eat. On a larger scale, rather than governments spending huge amounts of money & effort on agriculture, it would instead be a more sensible action to organize a total genocide, to avoid the need for food production.

For more information, check out my Amazon published book, "Promortalism" that explores the topic in greater detail.

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

FoeForfeiture

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

I did not give Pro the better argument award because they did not participate in the debate. Additionally, neither side provided more reliable sources, making it difficult to determine the overall strength of their arguments. The same applies for legibility, as neither side demonstrated a superior understanding of the requirements. Therefore, I did not award a point for either better arguments or legibility. However, since Con was the only one who actively participated, I awarded them the better conduct

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Only Con made arguments, thus his arguments cannot be negated.

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Pro forfeited

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Full forfeit

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Pro Round 1
I don't understand the three arguements,
There is obediance to the laws of physics, whether one is complex or not.
If one follows some self created purpose, then they followed physics, logically they shouldn't/couldn't have done anything else, then their path was correct.
I don't why it is 'better to not have desires or problems, since Pro is big on the ought problem being solved by causation, what things 'should do, is what they 'do/have done.

Con Round 1
Makes an interesting argument, that even faulty arguments can be logical,
Though I assume most people extend the logic they are testing a argument with, to include new information. Arguments aren't closed boxes I mean.
All swans are white, that thing despite looking like a swan in every other way, is not white, therefore it is not a swan.
Why the logic follows in the box, most people add new information into the box.
Still, all this doesn't really matter, since I think Con makes a good arguement anyway, and Pro abandons any attempts to further their own arguements or attack Cons.

I vote Con because I followed their logic easier than Pro,
And Pro's logic seemed faulty to me,
Maybe it wasn't, but Pro didn't stick around to argue their case further.

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

pro didnt do one round

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

I will make a baby with Con's wife

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

It is illogical to vote pro

Criterion
Pro
Tie
Con
Points
Better arguments
3 point(s)
Better sources
2 point(s)
Better legibility
1 point(s)
Better conduct
1 point(s)
Reason:

Full forfeit