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YouFound_Lxam's avatar
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YouFound_Lxam
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Topic
#5167

The Prophet Muhammed was a Pedophile.

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Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

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After not so many votes...

It's a tie!
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Religion
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Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
Three days
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Two weeks
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shotgun_mastif's avatar
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shotgun_mastif
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Description

This debate is about the Prophet Muhammed who is (according to the Qur'an) the pattern of conduct for all Muslims, and whether or not he is considered as a Pedophile.

Definitions:
Pedophilia - sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object.
(Thats really the only definition I feel I need to define, for this debate).

Rules:
1 free forfeit is allowed (NOT in the introductory argument).

Layout:
Pro Introductory argument
Con Introductory/Rebuttal argument

Pro Rebuttal
Con Rebuttal

Pro Rebuttal/Conclusion
Con Rebuttal/Conclusion

Round 1
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
Pro
#1
Before I began my opening argument, I would like to thank my opponent shotgun_mastif for accepting my challenge. Hopefully this will be an interesting and thought-provoking debate.

Context
Firstly, I would like to add some context to those who might be unfamiliar with the topic:
According to Islams most trusted sources (which will be provided during my argument), Muhammed the prophet of Islam (and the pattern of conduct for all Muslims according to Islam) married a girl who was six or seven years old. And he consummated the marriage with her (had sex with her), when she was nine years old, and he was 54. 

Now this debate as you might have read in the title, is not about the morals of such a thing. This debate is about whether or not Muhammed was a pedophile.
The definition of pedophile (according to Merium Webster Dictionary) states the following:
"Sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object."

Islams most trusted sources

The Qur'an supports child marriages in Islam, if the right standards are met. This is according to Surah 65:4 where it says, and I quote:


The waiting period of those of your women who have lost all expectation of menstruation shall be three months in case you entertain any doubt; and the same shall apply to those who have not yet menstruated. As for pregnant women, their waiting period shall be until the delivery of their burden. Allah will create ease for him who fears Allah.
This verse is clearly talking about girls, who have not yet menstruated, aka, little girls who have not reached puberty, and the Quran is explaining that men can marry, have sex with, and then divorce little girls, before puberty. 


The Tafsir of Ibn Abbas also supports child marriage by commenting the following on the matter:

(And for such of your women as despair of menstruation) because of old age, (if ye doubt) about their waiting period, (their period (of waiting) shall be three months) upon which another man asked: “O Messenger of Allah! What about the waiting period of those who do not have menstruation because they are too young?” (along with those who have it not) because of young age, their waiting period is three months. Another man asked: “what is the waiting period for those women who are pregnant?” (And for those with child) i.e. those who are pregnant, (their period) their waiting period (shall be till they bring forth their burden) their child. (And whosoever keepeth his duty to Allah) and whoever fears Allah regarding what he commands him, (He maketh his course easy for him) He makes his matter easy; and it is also said this means: He will help him to worship Him well.


The Tafsir of Ibn Kathir (one of the most respected Muslim scholars of all time) supports this as well by saying the following, commenting on Surah 65:4:

The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. see 2:228 The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause.


The Tafsir of Al-Jalalayn also says:

And [as for] those of your women who (read allā’ī or allā’i in both instances) no longer expect to menstruate, if you have any doubts, about their waiting period, their prescribed [waiting] period shall be three months, and [also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months — both cases apply to other than those whose spouses have died; for these [latter] their period is prescribed in the verse: they shall wait by themselves for four months and ten [days] [Q. 2:234]. And those who are pregnant, their term, the conclusion of their prescribed [waiting] period if divorced or if their spouses be dead, shall be when they deliver. And whoever fears God, He will make matters ease for him, in this world and in the Hereafter.


And these are just a couple sources. If my opponent wishes I can find more during the debate. 


Now was Muhammed a pedophile. Well according to our definition, he was. According to Islamic Scholar Ustadha Shazia Ahmad on Islam QA:
 
The Muslims knew that Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace) loved `A’isha, so if any of them had a gift and wished to give to Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace), he would delay it, until Allah’s Messenger, (Allah bless him and give him peace), had come to `A’isha’s home and then he would send his gift to Allah’s Messenger, (Allah bless him and give him peace), in her home.
The group of Umm Salama discussed the matter together and decided that Umm Salama should request Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace) to tell the people to send their gifts to him in whatever wife’s house he was. Umm Salama told Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace) of what they had said, but he did not reply. Then they (those wives) asked Umm Salama about it. She said, ‘He did not say anything to me. ‘They asked her to talk to him again. She talked to him again when she met him on her day, but he gave no reply. When they asked her, she replied that he had given no reply. They said to her, ‘Talk to him till he gives you a reply. ‘When it was her turn, she talked to him again. He then said to her, ‘Do not hurt me regarding `A’isha, as the Divine Inspirations do not come to me on any of the beds except that of `A’isha. ‘On that Umm Salama said, ‘I repent to Allah for hurting you. ‘
Then the group of Umm Salama called Fatima, the daughter of Allah’s Messenger, (Allah bless him and give him peace), and sent her to Allah’s Messenger, (Allah bless him and give him peace), to say to him, ‘Your wives request to treat them and the daughter of Abu Bakr on equal terms. ‘Then Fatima conveyed the message to him. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, ‘O my daughter! Don’t you love whom I love? ‘She replied in the affirmative and returned and told them of the situation.
They requested her to go to him again, but she refused. They then sent Zainab bint Jahsh who went to him and used harsh words saying, ‘Your wives request you to treat them and the daughter of Ibn Abu Quhafa on equal terms. ‘On that, she raised her voice and abused `A’isha to her face so much so that Allah’s Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace) looked at `A’isha to see whether she would retort. `A’isha started replying to Zainab until she silenced her. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), then looked at `A’isha and said, ‘She is really the daughter of Abu Bakr. ‘”[Bukhari]


Reference
Now for reference let's look at Muhammeds other wives:

Khadija
Around the age of 25, Muhammad wed his wealthy employer, Khadija, the 28-or 40-year-old widow, and daughter of a merchant.

Sawdah
There are disagreements in Muslim tradition whether Muhammad first married Sawdah or Aisha, but Sawda is usually regarded as his second wife, and she was living with him before Aisha joined the household. Sawdah was about 30 years old at the time.

Hafsa and Zaynab
Close to Aisha's age, (but still older) the two younger wives Hafsa and Zaynab were welcomed into the household. Sawda, who was much older, extended her motherly benevolence to the younger women.

Umm Salama
Umm Salama, also a devoted Muslim, had none but her young children.  She married Muhammad around the end of 4 AH.

Rayhana Bint Zayd
Rayhana Bint Zayd was a Jewish woman from the Banu Nadir tribe. In 627, the Banu Qurayza tribe was defeated, and Rayhana was enslaved. Ibn Sa'd wrote that Rayhana went on to be manumitted and subsequently married to the prophet upon her conversion to Islam. (can't fully convert unless reached puberty).

Juwayriya Bint al-Harith
Consequently, she was married to Muhammed, the Islamic Prophet when he was 58 years old and she was 20.


Now for sake of time and words, the rest are actually adults.
If you would like me to address them next argument, I will. 

Now here is the point:

If Muhammed preferred his youngest wife, who was a prepubescent child, over his adult wives, then by definition, he was a pedophile. 
shotgun_mastif's avatar
shotgun_mastif
Con
#2
I will start my argument by pointing out the last line you said
If Muhammed preferred his youngest wife, who was a prepubescent child, over his adult wives, then by definition, he was a pedophile. 
While there are several different recordings of Aisha’s age when she was betrothed and subsequently married to Mohammed, the consensus is that Aisha was around six when she was first betrothed to Mohammed and seven to nine years old when she was officially married to the Prophet (Spellberg 1994). However, Mohammed did not immediately consummate the marriage during his wedding night. This particular detail about Mohammed and Aisha’s marriage, as well as when Mohammed did indeed consummate the marriage, were both very explicitly recorded by several early Islamic scholars, almost as if the scholars predicted the very controversy this chapter discusses. Mohammed was said to have “consummated” his union with Aisha when she permanently moved into his home, after living separately for several years.  Mohammed was recorded to have waited “until Aisha had reached puberty” to consummate the marriage (Armstrong 2006: 93).
with these ideas in mind, I can put the fact that Muhammad didn't prefer Aisha over his other wives and thus he doesn't fall into the definition of pedophile you have given, hence he was not a pedophile.
Khadija
Around the age of 25, Muhammad wed his wealthy employer, Khadija, the 28-or 40-year-old widow, and daughter of a merchant.
Mohammed’s first marriage was to a distant relative: a recently widowed, wealthy businessman named Khadijah. Many early Islamic scholars insist that Mohammed’s marriage to Khadijah was indeed a marriage born out of respect and love, as well as opportunity. Mohammed lost his mother at a very early age, and many early Islamic scholars believe that this trauma caused Mohammed, on some primal level, to seek motherly support from his marriage to Khadijah (Armstrong 2006). This motherly aspect of Mohammed’s relationship with Khadija eventually developed an element of stewardship. Khadijah provided much-needed mental and financial support to an otherwise talented, poor man trapped in a culture that pressed those without means into a cycle of misfortune.
Khadijah not only supported Mohammed politically and financially but also encouraged him to strive for his image of a dominant Islamic religion; she was even the first to speak the shahada (a ritualized oath through which its speaker confesses obedience and acceptance of Allah as the one and only god and Mohammed as Allah’s messenger) and convert to Islam (Hazleton 2013).
with this in mind, I can argue that Muhamad preferred Khadija over Aisha, this also acts as an exception to the definition you've given of a pedophile.
"Sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object."
let us use this definition one more time,  As per my knowledge:
Aisha was recorded as aged around 64 years when died. She was 6 years old when she was married to Prophet Mohammad, She lived about 50 years after the death of Prophet Mohammad 
She had 14 years of marriage but there were no kids  Mohammad had with Aisha
Prophet had 7 kids in total. 3 sons and 4 daughters.
Daughters were: Fatima, Ruqayya, Zainab and
 Umme Kulsoom
And sons were:  Abdullah, Al-Qasim, and Ibrahim.
All the kids  Mohammad had been with His first wife Khadija except one son Ibrahim. Who was recorded to have with Maria, the 11th wife after Khadija
with this idea, I can also argue that Aisha was not the preferred sexual object of the prophet Muhamad because they didn't have a single child together.
Khadija
Around the age of 25, Muhammad wed his wealthy employer, Khadija, the 28-or 40-year-old widow, and daughter of a merchant.
I am going to bring up her name one more time, Muhmad had four daughters and at least two sons (both of whom died as infants) with Khadijah and probably another son (who also died young) by a later wife or concubine, Mariyah. with all the previous arguments in mind, I can say that Muhmad preferred Khadija over all of her other wives as he had the most amount of children with her. After she died in 619 CE, he married a total of 10 women over the remaining years of his life. From these wives, two bore him children: Khadijah and Maria al-Qibtiyya.
with all of these ideas in mind, I can hence conclude that Aisha was not the preferred sexual object of Muhmad, he consummated her after she had reached puberty but still wasn't the preferred object in any case or scenario.

The relatively large amount of time that Mohammed took to consummate the marriage, while not the modern perception of the acceptable age of marriage, does display recognition of Aisha’s relative immaturity and displays a sense of honor that a “pedophile” would lack (Spellberg 1994). This sense of honor that Mohammed shows toward his relationship with Aisha not only attests to his tremendous sense of morality but also introduces an even more important element to the relationship between the two. Based on Mohammed’s altered behavior due to Aisha’s age, we can infer that the marital relationship between Aisha and Mohammed was characteristically different from normal marital relationships of the time.

HONOR OF MUHAMMAD
Zayd was a slave gifted to Mohammed by his first wife Khadijah; but, when Zayd’s family came to ransom him back, Zayd begged to stay with Mohammed. Mohammed was so touched by the boy’s affection that he decided to free Zayd and adopt him. Similarly, Mohammed adopted Ali, the son of Abu Talib, Mohammed’s uncle and surrogate father. After Abu Talib had fallen under considerable financial constraint, Mohammed gladly adopted Ali to ease his troubles. Mohammed was recorded as caring for both of his adopted wards equally and “treating them as his sons” (Armstrong 2006: 27). This overt love and compassion towards children, in particular, seems to show that, while Mohammed may have married Aisha, he did not forget that she was still a child. How could Mohammed, a man who cares so deeply for children, agree to enter a sexual relationship with a young girl the same way as he would a woman his age? There is documented proof that Mohammed perceived his early relationship with Aisha to be that of a mentor or caretaker rather than a sexual partner: “he was sensitive to her situation, allowing her to still play with dolls and even joined her in play” (Roded2006: 58).

With all of these arguments in mind, I can henceforth claim that Muhamad was indeed not a pedophile.
Round 2
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
Pro
#3
Thank you to my opponent for their well thought out response!
I will be using my second argument to provide a rebuttal for Cons arguments.  

Con uses 4 main points to refute my arguments:
1. According to the waiting period of 3 years to consummate the marriage, Muhammed (allegedly) waited until Aisha had reached puberty to consummate the marriage.
2. Muhammed favored his wife Khadija over Aisha. 
3. Muhammed never had kids with Aisha but did have kids with Khadija. 
4. Muhammed cared for kids in other ways than sexual, so he couldn't be a pedophile.

I will be refuting these points one at a time based on Cons rebuttal. 




1. According to the waiting period of 3 years to consummate the marriage, Muhammed (allegedly) waited until Aisha had reached puberty to consummate the marriage.

Con stated:
"Mohammed was said to have “consummated” his union with Aisha when she permanently moved into his home, after living separately for several years.  Mohammed was recorded to have waited “until Aisha had reached puberty” to consummate the marriage (Armstrong 2006: 93).
with these ideas in mind, I can put the fact that Muhammad didn't prefer Aisha over his other wives..."
(Please provide more elaboration on what you mean by Armstrong 2006: 93, because I could not find anything based on that, that related to the subject)

Con claims that Mohammed was recorded to have waited until Aisha had reached puberty to consummate the marriage. This in fact is untrue according to many sources. 

According to Sahih al-Bukhari (which is one of the most valued and respected Hadiths in Islam):
"Narrated `Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for `Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fath-ul-Bari page 143, Vol.13)"
According to one of Islams most respected and valued Hadiths, Aishia is said not to have hit puberty at the time she was with Muhammed. We know this was at the same time or after the consummation of the marriage with Muhammed, according to Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3311 which states:
"‘Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (May peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old."

So, the claim that Aisha had reached puberty at the time she had consummated the marriage with Muhammed is evidently false when we look at the Hadiths. We can clearly see that according to the most valued and respected sources of Islam, Muhammed engaged in sexual relations with a pre-pubescent little girl, who was still playing with dolls.




2. Muhammed favored his wife Khadija over Aisha. 

Con stated:
"Many early Islamic scholars insist that Mohammed’s marriage to Khadijah was indeed a marriage born out of respect and love, as well as opportunity. Mohammed lost his mother at a very early age, and many early Islamic scholars believe that this trauma caused Mohammed, on some primal level, to seek motherly support from his marriage to Khadijah (Armstrong 2006)...
...Khadijah not only supported Mohammed politically and financially but also encouraged him to strive for his image of a dominant Islamic religion; she was even the first to speak the shahada (a ritualized oath through which its speaker confesses obedience and acceptance of Allah as the one and only god and Mohammed as Allah’s messenger) and convert to Islam (Hazleton 2013).
with this in mind, I can argue that Muhamad preferred Khadija over Aisha,"
(Again, please provide elaboration on what Armstrong 2006 means, thank you).

Con is making the claim that since Muhammed (allegedly) went to seek motherly support from his marriage to Khadija, Khadija supported him politically and financially, encouraged him, and was the first to speak the Shahada, this means that Muhammed favored Khadija over Aisha. This claim is false.

1. According to Sahih al-Bukhari 3662:
"The Prophet (ﷺ) deputed me to read the Army of Dhat-as-Salasil. I came to him and said, "Who is the most beloved person to you?" He said, " `Aisha." I asked, "Among the men?" He said, "Her father." I said, "Who then?" He said, "Then `Umar bin Al-Khattab." He then named other men."
Muhammed was explicitly asked who he loved the most. He replied to Aisha's name. 
This is a clear indication that Muhammed preferred Aisha over his other wives, given the fact it was her name that was stated, not the others. 




3. Muhammed never had kids with Aisha but did have kids with Khadija. 

Con stated:
Aisha was recorded as aged around 64 years when died. She was 6 years old when she was married to Prophet Mohammad, She lived about 50 years after the death of Prophet Mohammad 
She had 14 years of marriage but there were no kids  Mohammad had with Aisha
Prophet had 7 kids in total. 3 sons and 4 daughters.
Daughters were: Fatima, Ruqayya, Zainab and
 Umme Kulsoom
And sons were:  Abdullah, Al-Qasim, and Ibrahim.
All the kids  Mohammad had been with His first wife Khadija except one son Ibrahim. Who was recorded to have with Maria, the 11th wife after Khadija
with this idea, I can also argue that Aisha was not the preferred sexual object of the prophet Muhamad because they didn't have a single child together.
Con is making the claim that since Aisha had no kids with Muhammed, Muhammed must have not used her as a sexual object as much as the wives he had many kids with.

Muhammed didn't seem to have kids with Aisha, but sexual object (which is the terminology you used) does not necessarily mean having intercourse with. There are many Hadiths that explicitly show Muhammeds relationship with Aisha, when they do things other than have intercourse. For example:

1. Muhammed allowed Aisha to wash off his semen according to Sahih Muslim 2:572:
"Narrated 'Aisha: I used to wash the semen off the clothes of the Prophet and even then I used to notice one or more spots on them."

2. Muhammed fondled Aisha according to Sahih Bukhari 1:6:298:
"Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me."

3. Muhammad sucked Aisha's tongue according to Sunan Abu Dawud 13:2380:
"Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Prophet (peace be upon him) used to kiss her and suck her tongue when he was fasting."

4. Muhammeds wife Sawda was scared of Muhammed divorcing her, so on a journey, where each wife would take turns having sex with Muhammed, Sawada gave up her turn to Aisha in order to please Muhammed according to Sahih Bukhari 3:47:766:
"Whenever Allah's Apostle wanted to go on a journey, he would draw lots as to which of his wives would accompany him. He would take her whose name came out. He used to fix for each of them a day and a night. But Sauda bint Zam'a gave up her (turn) day and night to 'Aisha, the wife of the Prophet in order to seek the pleasure of Allah's Apostle (by that action)."
This Hadith actually shows that Muhammed actually preferred Aisha as a sexual object rather than the other wives. Why would Sawda give up her spot to Aisha in order to please Muhammed rather than any other wife?

This evidence clearly shows that not only was Aisha used to please Muhammed sexually in other ways than intercourse, but Muhammed also preferred Aisha as a sexual object over his other wives. 

 


4. Muhammed cared for kids in other ways than sexual, so he couldn't be a pedophile.

Con stated:
"Zayd was a slave gifted to Mohammed by his first wife Khadijah; but, when Zayd’s family came to ransom him back, Zayd begged to stay with Mohammed. Mohammed was so touched by the boy’s affection that he decided to free Zayd and adopt him. Similarly, Mohammed adopted Ali, the son of Abu Talib, Mohammed’s uncle and surrogate father. After Abu Talib had fallen under considerable financial constraint, Mohammed gladly adopted Ali to ease his troubles. Mohammed was recorded as caring for both of his adopted wards equally and “treating them as his sons” (Armstrong 2006: 27). This overt love and compassion towards children, in particular, seems to show that, while Mohammed may have married Aisha, he did not forget that she was still a child. How could Mohammed, a man who cares so deeply for children, agree to enter a sexual relationship with a young girl the same way as he would a woman his age?"
Con is making the claim that since Muhammed cared so deeply for children, he couldn't have entered a sexual relationship in the same way as a woman his age.

Well obviously, as we have already proven in past evidence, Muhammed did enter a very explicit sexual relationship with a young girl. Let's not forget that all the examples of Muhammed "caring for children" were all of boys. Obviously, the Prophet Muhammed wouldn't involve himself in a sexual relationship with a boy. Con never provided evidence of Muhammed taking in the care of a little girl without having intercourse with her. 



That concludes my rebuttal.
Thank you to Con for being so involved in the discussion.
I can't wait for your next reply!
shotgun_mastif's avatar
shotgun_mastif
Con
#4
Forfeited
Round 3
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
Pro
#5
Well it seems that my opponent has exercised his free forfeit for the debate. 
Judges please respect that fact that he has the right to exercise his 1 free forfeit. 

Conclusion:
With all due respect to my opponent, I do not believe that they have brought up a strong case for defending the Prophet Muhammad. 

If Islam and all of its sources are to be trusted, we can know from the sources without a shadow of a doubt, from the majority of Sunni Muslims, that:
1. Muhammad married a 6 or 7 year old
2. Muhammad had sex with a prepubescent 9 year old girl to consummate his marriage with her. 
3. Muhammad preferred his prepubescent wife sexually, and romantically over his other adult wives.

According to this criterion, I can confidently conclude, that the Prophet Muhammad (the pattern of conduct for all Muslims) was a pedophile according to Islams own sources. 

Thank you to my opponent for accepting this debate. I wish you the best of luck. 

shotgun_mastif's avatar
shotgun_mastif
Con
#6
Forfeited