Instigator / Pro

aql_reason

1500

rating

debates

37.5%

won

Topic

#5150

Islam

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After not so many votes...

It's a tie!

Tags

Religion

Parameters

Publication date: 12.27.2023 07:30PM
Last updated date: 01.04.2024 07:33PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 5
Time for argument: One week
Max argument characters: 500
Voting period: One week
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

Best.Korea

1233

rating

403

debates

39.45%

won

Description

Any position that you hold against Islam is welcome and can be criticized. Please list a few (1-3) main topics you disagree with about Islam. The contender should be genuine in their questions. Since Islam is a religion, the assumption here is that God exists, so this is not a debate about (existence) God.

Round 1

aql_reason

12.27.2023 08:01PM

Pro

Topic: Circumcision is a generally good thing. It's benefits outweighs the risk according to a lot of research. Even if an individual doesn't have consent to the matter, it's still the moral thing to do. For example, someone consents to suicide but society will not allow such a thing. Do you have an argument against Circumcision?

Best.Korea

12.27.2023 08:26PM

Con

The healthiest countries in the world dont circumcise.

Round 2

aql_reason

12.27.2023 08:51PM

Pro

Circumcision is practiced in some predominantly Christian countries... Anglosphere countries, the Philippines, the Middle East, South Korea and Oceania have high circumcision rates (Wikipedia)

According to worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/healthiest-countries Anglosphere countries are included in that list like Australia. UK and Israel are also inlcuded. Evidence disapproves that claim: "Healthiest countries dont circumcise". Also, correlation does not equal causation.

Best.Korea

12.27.2023 09:37PM

Con

Also, correlation does not equal causation.

Causation is correlation.

The only benefits which you think circumcision has are derived from correlations.

Japan is the healthiest country on Earth. Japan doesnt circumcise.

Next.

Round 3

aql_reason

12.27.2023 11:00PM

Pro

Causation is correlation.

Logical Fallacy

The only benefits which you think circumcision has are derived from correlations.

Not the only benefit (it is a good deed regardless of consequences).

Japan is the healthiest country on Earth. Japan doesnt circumcise.

I already gave a counter-example: Israel. You argue from pragmatism: truth is based on what is successful in practicality.

Best.Korea

12.27.2023 11:50PM

Con

Japan has longer life expectancy than Israel.

So I am afraid that I win.

Round 4

aql_reason

12.28.2023 12:03AM

Pro

Japan has longer life expectancy than Israel.

First you said healthiest countries don't do X. Then I gave a counter-example of a country that does do X. Now you moved on to life expectancy. Even taking your logic, South Korea and Japan have the same life expectancy (84). SK has high rates of Circumcision.

Best.Korea

12.28.2023 01:45AM

Con

South Korea and Japan have the same life expectancy (84). SK has high rates of Circumcision.

Which proves that circumcision is unnecessary pain and people can live just as good without it.

Also, most of the healthiest countries dont circumcise.

But most of the unhealthiest shitholes do, especially muslim shit holes.

Round 5

aql_reason

12.28.2023 07:09PM

Pro

"If one country does X (let's say circumcision) and another doesn't but both achieve the same goal (i.e healthiest countries) then is X necessary?"

If my argument was that X was for health then X is not necessary. But that wasn't my argument. Also, X can't be a control variable. Two countries don't have all the same factors but just X different.

The last lines, I answer in comments.

Best.Korea

12.28.2023 07:33PM

Con

#10

Comments dont count in debates, so rejected.

"Two countries don't have all the same factors but just X different"

As I said, on average, uncircumcised countries are healthier, proving that mass circumcision is unnecessary pain caused by islam.

aql_reason

12.28.2023 07:43PM

-->

@Best.Korea

Sure. The same points were repeated in the arguments anyway. I would just like to say to the voters: The contender changed the argument (straw-man): "If one country does X (let's say circumcision) and another doesn't but both achieve the same goal (i.e healthiest countries) then is X necessary?" But my argument was not X is healthy (or necessary for health). My argument was its good because the benefits outweigh the risk.

Best.Korea

12.28.2023 07:36PM

-->

@aql_reason

Comments dont count in debates, so I dont have to answer it.

aql_reason

12.28.2023 07:34PM

-->

@Best.Korea

You don't have to debate in comments. You can answer the comment in your argument. I mistakingly limited the word count so I can't explain all my points in the arguments page.

Best.Korea

12.28.2023 07:30PM

-->

@aql_reason

Sorry, I wont debate in comments.

aql_reason

12.28.2023 07:15PM

-->

@Best.Korea

"Also, most of the healthiest countries dont circumcise.

But most of the unhealthiest shitholes do, especially muslim shit holes."

Sure. But circumcision is not the reason these countries are unhealthy as I explained before. Most unhealthiest countries are in Africa and mostly Christian. You are thinking pragmatically - you believe the truth of ideas comes from success in practicality. Which is not a logical way of thinking.

aql_reason

12.27.2023 11:19PM

-->

@Best.Korea

For the 2nd point: The health benefits are correlated with circumcision. But I never claimed they were the cause of it. One healthy country does X the other ones doesn't do X. Therefore, we can't judge that X is bad based off that.

aql_reason

12.27.2023 11:02PM

-->

@Best.Korea

I can't change the word limit so that's unfortunate