Instigator / Pro

Darshpreet

1500

rating

debates

62.5%

won

Topic

#5010

Free markets

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

Darshpreet

Tags

Socialism

capitalismo vs comunismo

free markets

libertarianism

Parameters

Publication date: 10.17.2023 11:12PM
Last updated date: 10.26.2023 09:47AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: One week
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

Best.Korea

1233

rating

403

debates

39.45%

won

Description

No information

Round 1

Darshpreet

10.18.2023 09:54PM

Pro

I believe that Free markets have the power to lift people out of poverty and give them more freedom, with very limited or no government intervention, like in Keynesian and Austrian economics. In a free market, consumers are the be all end all. we do not need government intervention to regulate the market, because we already have millions of regulators: the people.

The free market economy argument for climate change (and most problems) goes like this: if the people truly care about climate change enough that it's one of the main political talking points for a politician, I'm sure they care enough to pay 0.05c more for a box of strawberries if it means reducing CO2 emissions, right? This logic can be applied to nearly every problem except prices, which I'll get to in a minute. We can actually see this in practice with Bud light, where conservatives boycotted it in late April of this year for partnering with transgender influencer Dylan Mulvaney. As you can see, in early march, bud light's parent compony's stock fell dramatically, and it has not recovered since then. This shows the power the consumer has over the corporation, and not the other way around.

As for prices, competition lowers them. If there's only one producer, and 200 consumers, the producer can increase prices to however much he wants, so long as the consumer is still interested. This becomes a problem with essential products like food or housing. Thankfully, this issue resolves itself. let's say there's a a company called GoodFoodCo, who has a monopoly over potatoes. The people are upset because of the high prices, but potatoes are an essential part of their diet. A potato eater notices everyones dissatisfaction, and starts to produce potatoes under the name of FreshFarmsInc. he sells potatoes at a slightly lower price than GoodFoodCo. everyone comes flocking to him, and as a result, GoodFoodCo lowers their prices, and so on and so on. this drives food prices down. We can compare US average rent vs Canada's average rent to prove this. According to spring financial, canada is 100$ a month more expensive in canada in rent! the US has much more competition in the rental market with 59.9 out of 130 in national competivity score, according to RentCafe .

Another reason I believe in a free market is that it prevents Government officials to dictate what goes on in the economy. In a Mixed market system, nothing is stoping MP's or even the Prime Minister from voting for policies that better themselves and the stocks they buy instead of what's good for the people. If Bob was a senator and had a share in GoodFoodCo, he could hurt the rival compony, FreshFarmsInc, by introducing a new "safety" requirement in his state that targets FreshFarmsInc and the materials they use.

The free market also reduces taxes. private companies don't need Taxpayer dollars to function, whereas public companies do. the one major argument against this I see is questioning if taxation is bad at all, and the awnser: yes. thinking that you are entitled to someone else's labour for free where the labourer has no say in the exchange doesn't sound very moral, does it? It does not become justified if the slavery is used for cheeper hospital prices.

in conclusion, I believe the free market is the best type of economy because it gives the consumer total power, produces competition, prevents government officials from cheating the system, and reduces taxes on the average person.

Best.Korea

10.18.2023 10:20PM

Con

My opponent didnt define free market in the debate.

His ranting in comments should just be ignored, as it is not part of debate.

Free usually means that it costs 0 $.

Thats what free means when we talk about things and market is a thing.

I dont see how a market can cost 0 $.

Well, even if some do, on most markets you have to pay and that is correct because sellers wont sell unless you pay.

My opponent has this silly idea that things in store can be free.

I guess he went full communism. You never go full communism.

It is true that all countries currently in the world are Communist countries and that Communism is the only system that works.

But still, my opponent proposed full Communism where everything is free.

That is absurd, so voters should just vote for me without further reading the debate.

My opponent gave no definitions, so the only thing we can conclude from topic is what we find in most dictionaries.

Since all dictionaries support the definition I gave, definitions go to me so we are forced to use my definitions. Plus, my opponent didnt present any definitions, so there is no need to give importance to any of his ranting in round 1.

Round 2

Darshpreet

10.18.2023 11:15PM

Pro

contrary to my opponents belief, A free market is not free. I did not propose that. in fact, I proposed a system similar to Austrian economics, which is totally different from communism, in the line "with very limited or no government intervention, like in Keynesian and Austrian economics."

also, my opponents claim that more dictionaries are on his side, aside from being a appeal to authority argument, it is also wrong.

by Cambridge: an economic system with only a small amount of government control, in which prices and earnings are decided by the level of demand for, and production of goodsand services

by dictionary.com: an economic system in which prices and wages are determined by unrestricted competition between businesses, without government regulation or fear of monopolies.

Medium Webster: an economy operating by free competition

I conclude my rebuild with very little arguments because I find it hard to respond when my opponent has only provided one argument in their favour.

Best.Korea

10.18.2023 11:51PM

Con

My opponent still hasnt provided definition of a free markets in a clear way.

I am not even sure what he wants to debate at this point.

"an economic system in which prices and wages are determined by unrestricted competition"

So my opponent wants to abolish taxes, because they restrict competition. I think we will find how such idea is absurd, but the absurdity doesnt stop there.

" an economic system with only a small amount of government control, in which prices and earnings are decided by the level of demand for, and production of goodsand services"

Prices decided by demand? The only way to enforce that is to abolish taxes, because they affect prices.

I think my opponent needs to sit down and think what he actually wants to debate, because so far this has just been some rambling with two contradicting definitions being given.

He went from "unrestricted competition" to "small amount of government control (restriction)".

Well, anyway, since he didnt present an actual definition but gave two contradicting definitions in round 2, and since round 1 only had my definition, and since my definition is simple and non-contradictive and is same in every dictionary, the definitions go to me and with that, the debate too since my opponent conceded that markets should not be free.

Round 3

Darshpreet

10.19.2023 01:25AM

Pro

"only a small amount of government control"

By adding in that one word in the beginning, only, the context completely changes. It means the government does the bare minimum to make sure everything functions (like law enforcement).

As for taxes, it may not be such an extreme idea to reduce taxes significantly. When everything is privatized, the prices will sort themselves out due to competition (see argument 1) and we won't need as much taxes, only for law enforcement and military. In fact, in the libertarian (free Marketeer) world view, taxation is considered theft, a sentiment that I do agree with. it is an involuntary exchange of goods or money. if I want to donate to healthcare, I'll donate to healthcare by myself, thank you!

As for social programs, they can be abolished in favour of fraternal societies. you can look at this video if you want a more in depth overview, but basically, they are societies in which you join to receive benefits, but also takes a fee in order to be able to pay for other's benefits. they are a good alternative to taxation, and have been tried before and succeeded. They are completely voluntary and (mostly) have freedom of association.

anyways, I believe that's it. I hope I have persuaded you to vote for me, and my opponent that free markets are what I define them as and that they work (although the second one is highly unlikely)!

Best.Korea

10.19.2023 09:47AM

Con

taxation is considered theft

Okay, I think I win because of these absurd points.

Country cannot exist without taxes, that much is clear.

Extend all arguments.

Best.Korea

10.19.2023 07:07PM

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@Darshpreet

Yeah I plan to.

Darshpreet

10.19.2023 07:06PM

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@Best.Korea

Good debate! I hope the best debater wins.

Best.Korea

10.18.2023 10:24PM

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@Darshpreet

Well, you cannot have free market without the word free.

Each word has its own definition. You cannot define two words as one word.

Plus, the topic doesnt say free market.

It says free markets.

Anyway, since your definition is not present in most dictionaries, definitions go to me.

Darshpreet

10.18.2023 10:21PM

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@Best.Korea

a free market isn't free.

try searchingbthis up: free market definition
instead of free definition

Best.Korea

10.18.2023 10:03PM

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@Darshpreet

Free: without cost or payment

Source: All dictionaries

So since more dictionaries are on my side, I win.

Darshpreet

10.18.2023 09:56PM

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@Best.Korea

Free market ˌfriː ˈmɑːkɪt/ /ˌfriː ˈmɑːrkɪt/: an economic system in which the price of goods and services is affected by supply and demand rather than controlled by a government.

I think you just misunderstood the meaning.

source: Oxford dictionary

Best.Korea

10.18.2023 09:32PM

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@Darshpreet

Free usually means that it costs 0 $.

I dont see how a market can cost 0 $.

Well, even if some do, on most markets you have to pay and that is correct because sellers wont sell unless you pay.

Darshpreet

10.18.2023 09:26PM

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@Best.Korea

free market means no interference by government, not free as in for 0$. what do you mean??

Best.Korea

10.17.2023 11:14PM

I dont think things in market can be free. Thats silly.

Trent0405

10.19.2023 05:23PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Con puts forward an unorthodox definition of a free market, but instead of supporting his definition, he just conflates two meanings of the word "free." This is why Pro offered a definition of a "free market," a well established concept in economics, while Con simply defined the word "free," which can mean a wide variety of things depending on context. Hence, I will accept Pro's definition for the purposes of voting on this debate.

Pro puts forward an effective case arguing that free markets decrease prices, give consumers power, and subvert the inherent inefficiencies of government control. Con never really offers a response other than his ranting about the definition of a free market. Other than that, he just gets outraged at the idea of a society with no taxes without any substantiation as to why taxes are important. Pro responds by simply pointing out the dubious morality of taxation and the possible substitutes to government programs financed through taxation. These rebuttals are never addressed.

Basically, Con drops all of Pro's points and never offers a case of his own.