Veganism

My argument is simply that any of us who have an easy choice of whether or not to purchase products that are made from animals should choose not to because of the enormous suffering the animals endure and/or because they lose their life.  Tell me why you disagree.

Hi, username505, thanks for joining me in this discussion.  I guess I’ll just begin by showing you statements made by many prestigious dietetic institutions across the globe that clearly state that vegan diets can be perfectly healthy.  

“It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity. Low intake of saturated fat and high intakes of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, soy products, nuts, and seeds (all rich in fiber and phytochemicals) are characteristics of vegetarian and vegan diets that produce lower total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels and better serum glucose control. These factors contribute to reduction of chronic disease. Vegans need reliable sources of vitamin B-12, such as fortified foods or supplements.”  Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (formerly, the “American Dietetic Association”)https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886704/


“Anyone can follow a vegan diet – from children to teens to older adults. It’s even healthy for pregnant or nursing mothers. A well-planned vegan diet is high in fibre, vitamins and antioxidants. Plus, it’s low in saturated fat and cholesterol. This healthy combination helps protect against chronic diseases.  Vegans have lower rates of heart disease, diabetes and certain types of cancer than non-vegans. Vegans also have lower blood pressure levels than both meat-eaters and vegetarians and are less likely to be overweight.”  Dieticians of Canada https://www.unlockfood.ca/en/Articles/Vegetarian-and-Vegan-Diets/What-You-Need-to-Know-About-Following-a-Vegan-Eati.aspx (beginning at paragraph 5)

“One of the UK’s longest-standing organisations that represents dietetics and nutrition, the British Dietetic Association, has affirmed that a well-planned vegan diet can ‘support healthy living in people of all ages’.”  British Dietetic Association https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/british-dietetic-association-confirms-well-planned-vegan-diets-can-support-healthy-living-in-people-of-all-ages.html


“You can get the nutrients you need from eating a varied and balanced vegan diet including fortified foods and supplements.”  British National Health Service https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/how-to-eat-a-balanced-diet/the-vegan-diet/


“There are many different forms of vegetarian diets. All vegetarian diets prioritise foods that come from plants. They limit or avoid foods from animals. People follow vegetarian diets for a range of reasons — health, environmental, ethical, religious, or economic.”

(then, after summarizing all the different types of vegetarianism, including vegan…)

“A varied and well-balanced vegetarian diet can supply all the nutrients needed for good health. You can match your vegetarian diet to meet the recommended dietary guidelines. Such as eating plenty of vegetables, fruits, legumes and whole grains.”  Dieticians of Australia. https://dietitiansaustralia.org.au/health-advice/vegetarian-diet



“Vegetarian diets can meet all the recommendations for nutrients. The key is to consume a variety of foods and the right amount of foods to meet your calorie needs. Follow the food group recommendations for your age, sex, and activity level to get the right amount of food and the variety of foods needed for nutrient adequacy. Nutrients that vegetarians may need to focus on include protein, iron, calcium, zinc, and vitamin B12.” (Further specifically lists vegetarian and vegan dietary options for these nutrients, only B12 does it fail to specifically say the word “vegan”, but does suggest foods fortified with B12, including soy milk which is obviously a vegan item).  U.S. Department of Agriculture. http://web.archive.org/web/20161201071116/https://myplate.gov/tips-vegetarians


“Appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthy and nutritionally adequate. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the lifecycle. Those following a strict vegetarian or vegan diet can meet nutrient requirements as long as energy needs are met and an appropriate variety of plant foods are eaten throughout the day”.   National Health and Medical Research Council (Australia)
- https://nhmrc.gov.au/about-us/publications/australian-dietary-guidelines
(pg 35)


“With planning, a vegetarian diet can meet the needs of people of all ages, as well as people who are pregnant or breastfeeding”.  (then goes on to talk about the various types of vegetarians, including vegans).  Mayo Clinic (U.S.). https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/vegetarian-diet/art-20046446


“Vegetarian and vegan diets can provide all the nutrients you need at any age, as well as some additional health benefits. Vegetarian diets often have lower levels of total fat, saturated fat and cholesterol than many meat-based diets, and higher intakes of fibre, magnesium, potassium, folate and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E.”  The Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada. https://www.heartandstroke.ca/healthy-living/healthy-eating/specific-diets/for-


“Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.  According to the American Dietetic Association, ‘appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases’.”  Harvard Medical School (U.S.). https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/becoming-a-vegetarian

As far as the issue of whether or not farm animals feel pain and suffering, I’m sure I could find a bunch of scientific research to support my claim that they do, but isn’t it just obvious that they do?   I think we can pretty safely assume that any creature who desperately cries out and tries with all of its might to escape a dangerous situation is a conscious being who values its life, has the ability to feel pain and who wants, more than anything, to live, just like you and me.

Olá, não precisa agradecer e obrigado pela cordialidade. Quanto as fontes que você mandou, elas são específicas a dietas vegetarianas e não a inclusão do modelo vegetariano como um todo. Eu poderia mandar (e caso seja exigido eu mando) fotos de pessoas desnutridas (aparência) e totalmente adeptas ao veganismo. As plantas não cobrem todos os benefícios da carne, podem substituí-la temporáriamente mas malefícios virão consequentemente, somos seres carnívoros e a carne à nossa adaptação (sal, não crua, etc) é intrínseca para o desenvolvimento humano

I’m not sure I understand what you meant by your statement that the sources I sent to you  “are specific to vegetarian diets and not the inclusion of the vegetarian model as a whole.”  (Perhaps something is getting lost in translation?  I’ve been copying and pasting your content into Google translate, converting Portuguese to English; is Portuguese the language you are speaking?). I’m specifically talking about vegan diets which are clearly, on the whole and when done properly, completely healthy.   The sourced information clearly states this.   Additionally, veganism is often associated with better health than a meat-based diet.  “Epidemiologic studies consistently show lower disease rates, such as lower incidence of cancer and cardiovascular disease” and veganism “improves insulin resistance and dyslipidemia and associated abnormalities”.  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31895244/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31895244/

As far as photos of malnourished people on vegan diets, of course there will always be some people who don’t eat properly, whether they are vegan, vegetarians, or meat eaters.   I could just as easily send you pictures of vegan body-builders, but these photos (yours and mine) would just be anecdotal evidence that doesn’t show the whole picture of what these diets do for the population at large.

And as far as nutrients are concerned, the only one I know of that isn’t possible to get from plants in the proper quantity is B12, but with supplementation, vegans normally don’t have any issues, as the sourced information I sent earlier explains.  

Are you still there?