Instigator / Pro

SethBrown

1525

rating

debates

58.7%

won

Topic

#4955

The quran should be considered myth.

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

Intelligence_06

Parameters

Publication date: 09.24.2023 07:03AM
Last updated date: 10.10.2023 01:59AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 4
Time for argument: One day
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: Two weeks
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

Intelligence_06

1737

rating

172

debates

73.26%

won

Description

The definition of myth we will be using:
"a widely held but false belief or idea:"

I believe the quran should be considered objectively false

Round 1

SethBrown

09.24.2023 06:05PM

Pro

Id like to start off by thanking Intelligence for accepting this debate, I will now move onto my argument.

As I stated in the description the definition of myth im going off of is "a widely held but false belief or idea:" Id consider the quran being true a widely held belief (considering its one of the largest religions and is still growing) so my burden of proof is to show it holds beliefs contradictory to what is true.

In these arguments ill list the surah (in number form so for example surah 4 would be An-Nisa) and then the verse in that surah. Ill be using Dr. Mustafa Khattab's translation, the Clear Quran.

quran 36:40

It is not for the sun to catch up with the moon, nor does the night outrun the day. Each is travelling in an orbit of their own.

Here its saying the sun cant catch up to the sun, because each is travelling in an orbit of their own. Well this is contrary to scientific understanding of our solar system where instead we orbit the sun, this suggests that the author believed in Geocentricism which is not true, and would make the Quran false as its supposedly the words of Allah and therefore should be perfect. Other verses such as 21:33 & 31:29 also share this same message of the sun & the moon orbiting us.

quran 65:12

Allah is the One Who created seven heavens ˹in layers˺, and likewise for the earth. The ˹divine˺ command descends between them so you may know that Allah is Most Capable of everything and that Allah certainly encompasses all things in ˹His˺ knowledge.

Here it says Allah created seven heavens, and likewise for the earth. If Allah created 7 heavens and did the same for earth, that means he created 7 earths (or planets). This is once again problematic to science since there is 8 planets (plus 5 if you include dwarf planets) in our solar systems and quite literally billions outside of our solar system, its evident that the Quran is contradictory to what science has proved.

quran 86:5-7

Let people then consider what they were created from! ˹They were˺ created from a spurting fluid, stemming from between the backbone and the ribcage.

The Quran says that people were created from a spurting fluid (sperm) that stems from between the backbone & the ribcage. This is contrary to biology where we know sperm is created in the seminal vesicles, prostate gland and urethral glands. [1] All 3 of these aren't between the backbone & the ribcage.

There are many other verses I could delve into but ill end it there.

sources:

[1] - Wikipedia contributors. (2023). Sperm. Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm

Intelligence_06

09.25.2023 12:15AM

Con

1. The topic

The first thing I, or anyone, should do when approaching a topic is to figure out whatever the hell it means. I'm gonna do just that.

The quran should be considered myth.

Since the term "should be" implies that is what the condition shall be optimally, this topic is essentially

Ideally, the Quran is Myth.

Meaning that essentially in order to prove Pro correct or Con false, the Quran must be proven to be

"a widely held but false belief or idea:"

I have no idea where this is from, but seeing that Pro quoted this definition entry BEFORE the first round rather than in, I see no reason why we won't use this one here.

This means that the topic is

The Quran should be considered as a widely held but false belief or idea.

2. "belief/idea"

In order to prove that the Quran is a widely held but false belief or idea, we first must prove that it is a belief or idea. Is it?

: a formulated thought or opinion
2
: whatever is known or supposed about something
a child's idea of time
3
: the central meaning or chief end of a particular action or situation
Idea Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

Well, the Quran is a book, not an "idea". We also know the Quran isn't a belief, since Islam is what is the belief. We can say that people'd believe in the Quran, but nobody would consider the Quran to be its own belief. It is not widely-held nor a belief, because fundamentally it isn't being held as one.

You can run the kritik since it exists, it exists as an idea. But the thing is: even if the Quran qualifies as an idea, it cannot be "held" as one then be “false"(You can't prove that the Quran is a false "idea", could you?). In summary, the Quran, as an idea, should probably be widely-held and true: as we all just assume that the Quran is something that exists.

3. Conclusions

The Quran is not an idea or belief that is both widely held and proven to be false.
The topic is proven wrong as of yet, vote CON.

Round 2

SethBrown

09.25.2023 01:06PM

Pro

I suppose I phrased the topic poorly so I’ll concede the debate

Intelligence_06

09.26.2023 12:17AM

Con

Oh ok. Now we know where we'd go, don't we eh?

Round 3

SethBrown

09.26.2023 12:56AM

Pro

Yeah thats my mistake, thanks for the discussion although it was short lived.

Intelligence_06

09.26.2023 01:11AM

Con

Basically.

Round 4

SethBrown

09.26.2023 01:15AM

Pro

Well thanks for correcting me

Intelligence_06

09.26.2023 01:59AM

Con

Sounds like that's it.

SethBrown

09.25.2023 08:11PM

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@Metalgeekzy

Hey metal. The topic was poorly phrased (hence why I conceded in the debate) although if you take the idea I intended that the Quran contradicts science I think there is alot of texts that do, I But I don’t think all texts contradict science, I think it’d be ignorant if I said so since there are soo many religious texts