Veganism

My argument is simply that any of us who have an easy choice of whether or not to purchase products that are made from animals should choose not to because of the enormous suffering the animals endure and/or because they lose their life.  Tell me why you disagree.

Okay, vegetarianism I understand.

But vegan?

How can you say no to yummy cheese?

It doesnt matter if cows have to die, because we get yummy cheese in return.

And I dont feel cow's pain, so no harm done to me.

Ok, so there’s a few points you made here, but, for now, I’d like to just hone in on one of them, your statement “It doesn’t matter if cows have to die, because we get yummy cheese in return”.  

So let’s assume we could get the same yummy quality of cheese from forcing women to produce milk.  I’m assuming, (and correct me if I’m wrong), that you would think we should avoid forcing a woman into years of pregnancy and milk production, and we should also avoid later sending her off to be killed in a slaughter house after only a fraction of her life has been lived out.  

If you do agree with this, then explain to me why we shouldn’t also avoid doing that exact same thing to a cow.  

Cow is not a woman, or human. Its not even smart enough to be useful to humans. I dont see why we shouldnt kill it, given the yummy cheese we get in return.

Plus, without milk, we lose a lot. Coffee with milk, chocolate with milk, chocolate milk...

Oh yeah, I am a horrible person... but its not my fault animal products are so tasty and the only vegan product that tastes good is bananas.

So, I think what you are saying is that the reason it’s ok to kill it and/or harm it is because it isn’t human.   But, why does it matter that it’s not human?   You mentioned intelligence.  Is that the reason being human matters?  Because we’re more intelligent than animals?

As I said, humans matter more. Animals matter less, or dont matter at all to be precise.

There doesnt need to be a reason for value, since all values are ultimately reasonless and dont require a reason.

Of course, humans matter more to humans.

If you could choose to save a human or a cow, you would go for human.

Now, excuse me I have to go eat some cheese and chicken.

If I had to choose to save only a human or only a cow, then, you’re correct- I would choose to save the human. The reasons are several, but the most relevant one to this discussion is that I personally feel more bonded to the human. I care more about a human’s demise than a cow’s, just like a cow would probably feel more concerned about other cows than other humans. But we’re not talking about a world where we have to choose. We’re talking about the world we’re actually living in; a world where both can live. When we have the option to prevent intense suffering and premature death to beings who, like us humans, just want to live and enjoy their lives, why on Earth would we so callously choose to ignore their wishes when there’s no need to do so?   

Fine. Your animal friends may live.

Excellent.  Thanks again for the discussion, Best.Korea.

Thank you for the debate.