Instigator / Pro

Best.Korea

1233

rating

408

debates

39.09%

won

Topic

#4820

Bible contradicts itself when it talks about God being good

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Winner

After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...

Mall

Parameters

Publication date: 08.07.2023 04:07PM
Last updated date: 08.24.2023 04:07PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 5
Time for argument: Two weeks
Max argument characters: 5,000
Voting period: Two weeks
Point system: Winner selection
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

Mall

1389

rating

414

debates

44.57%

won

Description

Definitions
God - All powerful and all knowing being

I must base my arguments on scripture alone.

Round 1

Best.Korea

08.07.2023 05:53PM

Pro

Thank you Mall for accepting this debate.

We are discussing specifically the scripture.

In the scripture, it says that God is good.

I am going to challenge that claim using scripture itself.

I am going to use standards which scripture uses to determine whats good, and then use the examples of God's actions in the scripture that dont fit in the definition of good provided by the scripture.

1. Standards for what is "good"

Bible psalm 145 9

"The Lord is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works."

Notice the part that I am going to focus on: "Good to all". That is the standard of the Bible, written in the Bible itself. God of the Bible must be beneficial to all. He cannot be more bad than good to someone. Also notice that everything which God does is tender mercy. Therefore, every God's action must display mercy. Every God's action towards everyone has to be merciful. That is what Bible defines as good.

2. God is not good to all

Bible Matthew 26:24

"But woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born."

We see that great eternal suffering will be experienced by Judas. It would be good for Judas, as admitted by Bible itself, if God never created him. God could destroy Judas immediatelly instead of torturing him. God knew that if he creates Judas, it will be very bad for Judas. God was not good to Judas when he decided to create him to torture him.

Conclusion

From this, God is not good to all, nor merciful to all.

Can you give answer to this? I kept it short, since I want to discuss this one point specifically.

Mall

08.07.2023 07:22PM

Con

"Bible psalm 145 9

"The Lord is good to all"

This is funny. The topic is not about "good to all people". Is God good period?

Scripture says taste and see that the Lord is good. Period. There's a period after good.

Do you see what I mean?

You can read that in the same book. Psalms 34.

It just tells you what He is.

You're going into about how He is treats all people. But what is He?

No wonder the original topic was along the lines of "completely good" but in that case, that topic could of been "Is the Lord God good to all people?"

I don't quite get what it is about Matthew 26:24 that relates to this.

Do you have scripture that says God is not good or evil?

Round 2

Best.Korea

08.07.2023 07:37PM

Pro

Lets go with this.

Merciful to all = good.

God of the Bible = Not merciful to all.

God of the Bible = Not good

It would be better for Judas if God never created Judas. Where is mercy in Judas's eternal torment?

Mall

08.08.2023 08:53PM

Con

What you're going with is twisting the topic. The topic is not the definition of God's goodness which is apparently according to you. Everything has to be based on scripture.

You're supposed to have scripture that says God is not good.

The scripture says taste and see that the Lord is good.

You're not sticking to your own rules out of desperation.

Where is the scripture that says God is not good?

I got more scripture.

1 Chronicles 16:34

"Oh give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; for his steadfast love endures forever!"

He is good. I'm not twisting that. Leaving that how it is. It doesn't say he is good to all people. Just says he is good. That is the topic. Is he good? I found scripture that say so. You would have to find an exact scripture that says he is not to appear like a contraction.

In regards to Judas , I don't have bible that says anything about mercy eternally.

This is off topic but I'll entertain for edification. Judas because of God's love, compassion, mercy allowed him to live each day before he decided to do what he did. So he brought it on himself.

Lamentations 3

"22 Because of the Lord’s great love we are not consumed,

for his compassions never fail.

23 They are new every morning;

great is your faithfulness."

In that regard mercy was given to Judas. Now it's your thought process to say God isn't good based on what you think about the end of Judas.

But the debate requires you to get scripture alone . So your thought process, what you think the Lord God being good means to you as far as the scripture is concerned is no good. No pun intended. No good as a lie. Scripture says let God be true and every man a liar. His words are pure, do not add unto them lest reprove you and be found a liar .

If you don't have the scripture saying God is not good, please admit you have nothing.

Round 3

Best.Korea

08.08.2023 08:58PM

Pro

I came here to debate specifically Judas case. Where is mercy in Judas eternal suffering, being better if he was never created by God?

Mall

08.09.2023 03:59PM

Con

Oh well the topic title should of been Judas ..... whatever. We can set that up, another debate on him.

Far as this, you don't have any scripture that says God is not good.

So looks like it's a wrap.

Round 4

Best.Korea

08.09.2023 04:04PM

Pro

God is not good if he is not merciful.

Sending Judas to hell where he will be tortured forever, as opposed to simply destroying him, is not merciful, therefore not good.

Mall

08.10.2023 12:43PM

Con

Let's read it.
Give me scripture that says what you just said.
See because remember, everything you give is supposed to be based on scripture alone.

Give book chapter and verse where it says "God is not good if he is not merciful."

You got to be able to read that or else you're just making this up according to your own philosophy.
Scripture says beware of philosophy.

Call book chapter and verse where we can read "God is not good".
I've been asking for this round after round.
You continue to give me your words. You're going to be found in violation of Proverbs 30.

Call book chapter and verse where we can read "God is not good".

Round 5

Best.Korea

08.10.2023 12:53PM

Pro

Good in the Bible is defined as being merciful, forgiving.

Where is mercy and forgiveness in eternal torment of Judas, as opposed to simply destroying Judas?

Bible says: "love your enemies, so that you may be perfect, like your father in heaven".

Where is love in eternal torment?

It would be better to destroy evil people than to torture them for all eternity. There is nothing good in eternal torture.

God knew that those people would be evil, still created them, gave them conditions which allowed them to create evil, and then punished them for being evil.

This makes God the creator of evil.

Mall

08.10.2023 04:07PM

Con

#10

Boy we went through this quick.
When you have a biblical based discussion or debate, have the scriptures ready.
Be prepared to give book chapter and verse.

Obviously you don't have any. If we do this again, just say you don't have any bible when you don't so that you can speak as the oracles of God.

culturally

08.11.2023 08:28PM

there are no contradictions in the bible

hey-yo

08.10.2023 06:43PM

I feel like b.k. needs to pace themself better.

Mall

08.10.2023 04:10PM

I'm willing to debate this with anyone but you have to have scripture to back up everything you put out.

Best.Korea

08.05.2023 01:04PM

-->

@Mall

Are you willing to debate this one?

Barney

08.10.2023 06:09PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Winner

1 point(s)

Reason:

BoP failure, which is well caught by con.

Pro’s case for Judas, fails to show that he is tortured according to the Bible; merely that someone regrets him being born. Even if we take him for granted, showing hell in the Bible is still needed to show the contradiction in character of God.