Instigator / Pro

Sir.Lancelot

1587

rating

182

debates

55.77%

won

Topic

#4772

THBT: In the United States, a college degree is essential for getting a good job.

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

Bella3sp

Tags

Education

Employment

Parameters

Publication date: 07.26.2023 11:00PM
Last updated date: 08.24.2023 02:03AM
Type: Rated
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Three days
Max argument characters: 10,500
Voting period: Two weeks
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open
Minimal rating: None

Contender / Con

Bella3sp

1524

rating

debates

74.07%

won

Description

The United States is seeing a disturbing amount of correlations regarding college degrees and high-quality employment.
Which is putting more of a need for a college degree in order to be successful.

College Degrees-

Associates Degree: A two-year college degree that you can obtain from a community college, junior college, online university.

Bachelor's Degree: Undergraduate degree in which you study a subject of your choice at an academic institution.

Master's Degree: Academic qualification granted at the postgraduate level to individuals who have successfully undergone study demonstrating a high level of expertise in a specific field of study or area of professional practice.

Doctoral Degree: A postgraduate academic degree awarded by universities and some other educational institutions.

Definitions:

Essential: Extremely important.

Good: To be desired or approved of.

Job: A paid position of regular employment.

Round 1

Sir.Lancelot

07.27.2023 12:40AM

Pro

Preamble

The topic is about college degrees and their importance to employment.

I will be arguing that college degrees are essential for getting a good job.

How do we determine if a job is good?

By identifying the following.

Stable career.
Good benefits.
High income & supporting salary.

Con must argue that college degrees are not a requirement to getting a good job by proving that there are a sufficient number of careers that do not demand a degree. If I prove that the majority of jobs do need a college degree, then I have solidified my case as Pro.

College Degrees versus High School Diplomas

Statistics show that the majority of cases involving college graduates usually end with them bringing in more wages and income, compared to their peers who only have a high school diploma.

The average salary for HS graduates is $39,000 while the salary for college graduates ends up being a total of $65,000. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the percentages for unemployment is also different depending on education. For diplomas, the unemployment rate totals 4% while bachelor's degrees are as low as 2%.

With this data, we know that on average.:

College graduates earn more than non-college graduates. A gap of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
There is a lower rate of unemployment for college graduates. 1

The Benefits

With price inflation, the costs of inflation are becoming increasingly harder to afford. Employer-provided coverage is more often given to those with a college education, studies find. 70% of workers with advanced degrees and 64% of employees with a bachelor’s degree had obtained employer-provided coverage, but it was found that only 52% of high school graduates had coverage.

Let’s infer the following information.:

Affordable health insurance is more accessible to those with a college education.
Workers with only a high school diploma are less likely to get health insurance than someone with a bachelor’s degree.

Qualifications

60% of the jobs in the United States require an education beyond high school in order to meet the bare minimum qualifications. 3/4th of all jobs that came into existence between 2010 and 2016 decided that a college degree was necessary to gain employment. But this percentage is expected to rise to 70% by 2027, according to predictions made by data. 2 3

From this, we can gather that.:

College education is the minimum qualification for most of the jobs in the United States.
The amount of jobs requiring this are gradually climbing.

Bella3sp

07.30.2023 12:40AM

Con

Point:

Case:

This will consist of a few things.

1) Desired is a lot of times consistent on steady income

2) Multiple job's without college degrees are "approved of"

3) Many people choose to work jobs instead of getting a college degree

4) Most Americans don't have college degrees

C1) Overall, a college degree is not needed in order to have a good job

Burden:

The burden is on both users.

Pro must prove that in the United States, a college degree is essential for getting a good job.

Con needs to prove that in the United States, a college degree is essential for getting a good job.

Definitions:

Essential: Extremely important.

Good: To be desired or approved of.

Job: A paid position of regular employment.

(All defintions are from description. And all definitions can be found on google aka: https://languages.oup.com/google-dictionary-en/)

Layout

This is the layout i'm following:

Round One: Arguments

Round Two: Rebuttals and Small Arguments

Round three: Last rebuttals and closing argument.

Challenging pro's framework

By identifying the following.

"Stable career.
Good benefits.
High income & supporting salary."

^ I agree with this, but other things also by the definition of good, support the resolution.

I do not fully support the idea of how pro's framework on how I will support my burden and how they will fully support their burden.

Yes, I will prove a great deal of jobs that don't require college degrees (that are also variations).

Not only but pro would not have "solidified" their case, even if they showed a majority of jobs need a college degree.

I purpose that pro needs to show the following:

A college degree is extremely important (basically needed) in order to get a desired job.
The majority of people work jobs that require a college degree (not jobs that require college degrees)

I will provide everything I said above in my case.

Contentions

Desired jobs

Most of the United States don't have a college degree

Most people in the United States don't have a college, so in terms of "a college degree is essential for getting a desired job.", that is not true.

It is not needed to have a college degree in order to have a desired job.

And if someone wanted to have a job, such as being a doctor they would've had done college.

Though there is many factors considering someone going to college.

But the numbers are quite low:

"10% had an associate degree as their highest level of school completed. 23% had a bachelor's degree as their highest degree. 14% had completed advanced education such as a master's degree, professional degree or doctorate."

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2023/educational-attainment-data.html#:~:text=10%25%20had%20an%20associate%20degree,degree%2C%20professional%20degree%20or%20doctorate.

Multiple jobs dont require a degree

The following but are not limited to:

- Patrol officer

- Exclusive Assistant

- Electrician

- Firefighter

- Home Health Aide

- Medical assistant

- Database administrator

- Pharmacy technicia

- Dental hygienist

- Paralegal

- Web developer

- Consultant

- Geological and petroleum technician

- Medical technician

- Business intelligence analyst

- Insurance agent

- Civil engineering assistant

- Mechanic

- Sound engineering technician

- Solar photovoltaic installer

- Welder

- Ultrasound technician

- Detective

- Dispatcher

- Farmer

- Postmaster

- Phone interviewer

For more on the same website, view:

https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/best-jobs-without-a-college-degree

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/jobs-without-a-degree

Clearly, many people have chosen to become the following above.

Therefore, it is not extremely important (needed) in order to have a good job.

We have not only determined "good" by your standards, but by desired and approved of.

The following things I have given on the list are both of those.

Let's use electrician, farmer, and detective for example.

I don't even think I have to explain them.

Steady income

I have to continue next round...

Round 2

Sir.Lancelot

08.01.2023 03:35AM

Pro

Framework

Instead of arguing whose framework is superior, as both mine and Con’s versions are applicable to the discussion and deserve equal consideration, I suggest we merge them instead.

Rather than shifting the majority of the BOP to Con, I agree to an on-balance BOP to encourage a fairer discussion.
While my definition of ‘good’ does mean desired or approved of. The problem is alternate variations of the word ‘good’ from other dictionaries would have the same or similar definition, meaning it is relative. We must avoid the fatal mistake of applying a subjective interpretation to the word, as it would turn into a conversation of me and Con arguing our own opinions, and nobody should have the final say of whether my preferences are more valid than Con’s or vice-versa.

I therefore urge Con to concede to the original half of the setup where we determine if a job is good based on the following.: Stable career, good benefits, high income & supporting salary.

As this gives us an objective standard to abide by and follow. So extending this specific part of my framework, I think the majority would agree that these three standards constitute what makes up a ‘good’ job. However, to determine what jobs fall under these categories, I propose a bulletproof method.:

We observe which jobs are the most sought after and which jobs are in high demand. This certainly proves objectivity to the subjectivity portion of the definition.

Most Sought After Jobs

Since these careers are what a huge demographic of citizens are pursuing in the United States, then it naturally stands that these are good jobs as they are both desired and approved of. According to CBS, here are the most sought after jobs.:

Communications manager.
Summer intern.
Entry level engineer.
Associate producer.
Corporate intern.
Corporate sales account manager.
Temp project coordinator.
Business strategy manager.
Project coordinator.

The competition in these jobs is consistent, so the standards of what makes a desirable candidate is always rising. This means the bare minimum qualifications include a degree from a college or university of some sort. People with only a high school diploma will never even be considered.

Jobs in High Demand

High demand generally means there are more open positions than candidates to fill them. So far, here are all the jobs.:

Computer Manager
Paralegal
Technical Writer
Web Developer
Financial Manager
Medical Assistant
Software Developer
Market Research Analyst
Substance Abuse Counselor
Health Services Manager
Statistician
Nurse Practitioner

Now with the exception of medical assistant which only requires a high school diploma, professional certification, and several years of training. All the other jobs on this list demand the need for a degree, as it is the only way to get hired.

Rebuttals

“Multiple jobs dont require a degree
The following but are not limited to:

- Patrol officer
- Exclusive Assistant
- Electrician
- Firefighter
- Home Health Aide
- Medical assistant
- Database administrator
- Pharmacy technicia
- Dental hygienist
- Paralegal
- Web developer
- Consultant
- Geological and petroleum technician
- Medical technician
- Business intelligence analyst
- Insurance agent
- Civil engineering assistant
- Mechanic
- Sound engineering technician
- Solar photovoltaic installer
- Welder
- Ultrasound technician
- Detective
- Dispatcher
- Farmer
- Postmaster
- Phone interviewer”

While technically not a requirement, as it differs by jurisdiction and some law enforcement agencies hire without any advanced education, a lot of them have decided to make it a requirement that recruits have an associate or a bachelor’s degree. It isn’t an absolute answer, but a lot of places use policies for their hiring decisions to only select candidates with a college education. 3

I believe my opponent meant *Executive Assistant. While an executive assistant only needs a high school diploma, this is considered an entry level position so most employees in this field are looking to advance which means this position is temporary and not something people look to settle for permanently. Advancing or leveling up to a higher job usually means going to college to prepare for the next stage. 4

Some electricians do get their training early on in life and sometimes only need a high school diploma. However, there are a lot of electricians that lack the early resources or training, so they have to go to a technical college and obtain their electrician degree. 5

Since the fire-fighter field is very competitive, a lot of would-be firefighters will need to get a background and a degree in studying fire science. That’s for getting the job, but a lot of current firefighters go back to get their degree to level up to their rank and job title of choice. A lot of departments are also biased towards those with a paramedic license or those who perform intellectually at a college aptitude.

Jobs like becoming a detective almost certainly demand a degree. While it is true that qualifications differ, a lot of law enforcement agencies have biases that favor applicants with the credentials such as a degree in criminal justice, criminology, or sociology. 6

So in conclusion, while there are a few jobs on Con’s list that don’t technically require a college degree, obtaining one is still necessary to be looked at more favorably than other candidates. Statistics show that employers prefer candidates with a bachelor's degree to those with a high school diploma or GED. Including paralegal, business intelligence analyst, and a web developer. With only a high school diploma or GED, it is nearly impossible to obtain employment let alone be successful in any of these fields.

Bella3sp

08.04.2023 03:17AM

Con

Rebuttals:

I've gotten into the habit of just posting the title of the instigators/contenders rebuttals instead of quoting and rebuttaling to their every sentence.

Most Sought After Jobs

Like I said in my previous contentions, most people dont go to college.

In terms of the most jobs, yes, most jobs currently that are being held are high level jobs (or schooling that is alternative but not college) for adults.

And keep in mind the link you provided was just "The most-viewed jobs on LinkedIn".

I have two problems with this.

Not everyone goes on LinkedIn (for example, I don't myself)
Viewing jobs does not mean applying for the job

Jobs in High Demand

I'm not sure if these are jobs in high demand in the US, but like with my other contention, most people don't go to college. Which means in terms of the job being occupied the most, it would be jobs without a college degree.

Regardless of high demand, people are still getting good jobs without degrees.

Not Needed

And I want to reinstate the fact that just because some jobs are in high demand that require college degree(s) doesn't mean that it is necessary/extremely important to get a good job.

I want to keep repeating that you can get a good job without a college degree. Even if there are good jobs out there that require a college degrees, others don't.

Rebuttals:

I will be only using what I think is the main part of the rebuttals.

So in conclusion, while there are a few jobs on Con’s list that don’t technically require a college degree, obtaining one is still necessary to be looked at more favorably than other candidates. Statistics show that employers prefer candidates with a bachelor's degree to those with a high school diploma or GED. Including paralegal, business intelligence analyst, and a web developer. With only a high school diploma or GED, it is nearly impossible to obtain employment let alone be successful in any of these fields.

Those are multiple options. And I won't spend time explaining all the jobs, I will say, you still don't need a college degree to get those jobs. Regardless of some of the jobs being competitive, multiple people don't have a college degree nor is it necessary.

You may say that one would be looked at is more qualified, sure.

However, this debate regards "a college degree is essential (extremely important/requirement) for getting a good job".

And that's not true. If this debate was "a college degree is essential to have a higher chance of getting a job compared to people without degrees", sure.

But in this case it only regards having a good job. And the jobs I listed are good jobs.

According to you:

"Stable career.
Good benefits.
High income & supporting salary"

I believe the jobs I listed can have good benefits, is a stabe career, and possible high income.

High incomes varies from person to person. High income doesn't nessarically mean a good job.

I think stable income to be able to support yourself (and possibly loved ones) is enough for considering a good job.

I believe it comes down to this and maybe even cutting some of these down:

Stable career
Good benefits
Stable/steady income

The jobs I provided do clear the above. ^

I'll clear a bit more next round..

Round 3

Sir.Lancelot

08.07.2023 03:17AM

Pro

Forfeited

Bella3sp

08.10.2023 02:03AM

Con

Since Sir.Lancelot obviously couldn't respond to my rebuttals, or anything revolving around my contentions this round i'll make it a short remark.

An essential job is something that supports yourself enough to where you can make a living and be able to take care of your basic everyday needs.

In terms of a good job, that's everyones goal. To be able to survive, and when we see people on the street. We ought to think, "is a good job being able to make a living rather than being homeless?".

This especially revolves around familes. They want to make enough money to support their familes.

A desired job is being able to pay for what you need in everyday life.

And I can say without a doubt, you don't need a college degree in order to take care of yourself and make a living.

In fact, Bill Gates has made a great living without a college degree. However, once again, i'm going to refer to above ^.

I mentioned in round one most people don't go to college.

And look at that, familes, and others can strive without a college degree.

It is not extremely important to get a college degree in order to get a good job.

A high school degree itself is perfectly fine to get a good job.

Barney

08.21.2023 03:19AM

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@Average_Person

“ eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee”

even without assigning points, this vote fails to imply any knowledge of the debate, and could indeed be said of every debate. As such. It’s deleted.

Sir.Lancelot

08.18.2023 02:05AM

-->

@SkepticalOne

@Athias

@Savant

Hey guys!
Are you guys interested in voting?

3 rounder and a pretty quick read. I forfeited the last round because I was banned, so hopefully that makes it a little less lengthy.

Dr.Franklin

08.07.2023 04:11AM

This debate really bogs down into what is "essential" and what is a "good" job

Sir.Lancelot

07.27.2023 12:15AM

-->

@Bella3sp

Deal.

Bella3sp

07.27.2023 12:13AM

-->

@Sir.Lancelot

Three days?

Americandebater24

08.10.2023 02:32AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Con effectively proved that a college degree is unnecessary for a good Job. Pro Did make a good point that having a college degree will make you seem more favorable. Con counter this by defining a good Job as being able to provide for your basic needs and that a college degree is not required to have a good job. Even giving Bill Gates credit for his success despite lacking a degree. Pro also forfeited in the last round. Everything else was a tie.