Instigator / Pro

Pevensie

1500

rating

debates

56.25%

won

Topic

#4748

According to Christianity, unbaptized Infants going to Hell is possible

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 3 votes and with 11 points ahead, the winner is...

Pevensie

Tags

theology

Parameters

Publication date: 07.21.2023 12:39AM
Last updated date: 02.17.2024 02:14PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: One week
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: Six months
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

YouFound_Lxam

1472

rating

debates

45.59%

won

Description

No information

Round 1

Pevensie

07.21.2023 03:12PM

Pro

Definitions:

Christianity is defined as a "major religion stemming from the life, teachings, and death of Jesus of Nazareth (the Christ, or the Anointed One of God)"[1]

Possible is defined as "being what may be conceived, be done, or occur according to nature, custom, or manners"[2]

The Catholic Church

The Catholic Church has more members that all other Christian denominations combined.[3] Therefore, its theological claims should be taken seriously.

According to the Catholic Church:

It is clear that the traditional teaching on this topic has concentrated on the theory of limbo, understood as a state which includes the souls of infants who die subject to original sin and without baptism, and who, therefore, neither merit the beatific vision, nor yet are subjected to any punishment, because they are not guilty of any personal sin...It remains therefore a possible theological hypothesis.[4]

Limbo refers to the limit or edge of Hell.[5] It is part of Hell, although it lacks some of the unpleasant qualities, such as pain infliction. Limbo, like all of Hell, institutes complete separation from the beatific vision. Since the Church that represents the majority of Christians has stated that my opposition is "a possible theological hypothesis" I believe my position has been established as correct.

St. Augustine

Augustine of Hippo, a Doctor of the Church, has argued that "infants who die without Baptism are consigned to hell."[6] St. Augustine does not only affirm that my position is possible, he does further and states that it is certain.

Ecumenical Councils

In 1442, the Ecumenical Council of Florence stated:

With regard to children, since the danger of death is often present and the only remedy available to them is the sacrament of baptism by which they are snatched away from the dominion of the devil and adopted as children of God...[7]

This seems to agree with the position of St. Augustine and, therefore, my position that it is merely possible has been strengthened.

Additionally, the Ecumenical Council of Trent, which lasted from 1545 to 1563, states that beyond baptism there is no means of salvation for infants.[8]

Conclusion:

As Pro, I merely have to prove that unbaptized infants going to Hell is possible. Of course, there are other possible theories presented by the Catholic Church and other Christians churches as well. Their existence and possibility does not threaten the fact that my position is, at least, possible.

YouFound_Lxam

07.24.2023 04:36AM

Con

Firstly, I would like to thank my opponent for creating this debate.

So, first off, I do have a problem, and I am also a bit confused about how and why you defined Christianity.

You have to first understand that there are denominations in Christianity.

Opponent:

Christianity is defined as a "major religion stemming from the life, teachings, and death of Jesus of Nazareth (the Christ, or the Anointed One of God)"[1]
Possible is defined as "being what may be conceived, be done, or occur according to nature, custom, or manners"[2]

Now, I don't disagree with the definition, but the basis of your argument on top of this definition is quite confusing to me.

Catholicism is not a part of Christianity perse.

Catholics worship Mary, which breaks them off of Christianity, since Christianity claims that we must only worship one God.

So, you are basing your argument off of Catholic theology, not Christian theology.

Therefore, your statement/claim is proven to be false.

Round 2

Pevensie

07.30.2023 05:05PM

Pro

First, I am very excited that my opponent suggests that if Catholicism is a Christian denomination, then he agrees with my stated position. There are many denominations within Christianity and they all disagree to some extant on theology. Do not doubt that some Christians would claim that Catholicism is not a ligament denomination, although they are biased. My opponent states that Catholicism is not a Christian denomination because Catholics worship Mary. According to DynamicCatholic.com:

Catholics don’t worship Mary. We pray to Mary, but not in the same way we pray to God—and not to worship her as a god.[1]

Therefore, my opponent's argument concerning Mary is not valid.

As I previously stated:

Christianity is defined as a "major religion stemming from the life, teachings, and death of Jesus of Nazareth (the Christ, or the Anointed One of God)

My opponent is okey with the definition:

Now, I don't disagree with the definition,

The Catholic Church believes the four Gospels, which contains "the life, teachings, and death of Jesus of Nazareth," to be divinely inspired.[2] The Pope claims to be the Vicar of Jesus Christ.[3] Therefore, Catholicism is a form of Christianity according to the definition provided.

My opponent states:

Christianity claims that we must only worship one God.

This statement is very vague and I do not know what my opponent is arguing. I think he is arguing that Christianity is monotheistic. Catholicism is monotheistic.[4] Therefore, Catholicism only worships one God.

Therefore, Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity and its theology is possible.

YouFound_Lxam

08.06.2023 05:05PM

Con

Forfeited

Round 3

Pevensie

08.06.2023 05:19PM

Pro

Pass.

YouFound_Lxam

08.13.2023 05:19PM

Con

Forfeited

YouFound_Lxam

02.17.2024 02:14PM

-->

@Pevensie

Got busy.
My apologies.

Pevensie

07.21.2023 01:45AM

-->

@Bella3sp

I think evangelicals would generally disagree with this idea.

Bella3sp

07.21.2023 01:09AM

'Nothing's' impossible with Christianity and without it being comfirmed, of course it is possible.

Mharman

02.05.2024 06:05AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

FF, 2/3 rounds

Average_Person

08.14.2023 03:55PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

haha ff go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

the_quiet_poet9

08.14.2023 03:30PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Bop was mostly on con, as he had to prove that unbaptized infants going to hell is impossible, whereas pro just had to prove that it could be possible. Pro gave arguments for his stance, but con gave none and ended up agreeing with pro after trying to argue about an unrelated subject. Con also forfeited.