Instigator / Pro
0
1553
rating
76
debates
55.26%
won
Topic
#4687
It is more rational to assume the earth is flat than round without direct evidence of the earth's shape (For Devon only)
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After not so many votes...
It's a tie!
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Rated
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
- Minimal rating
- None
Contender / Con
0
1482
rating
24
debates
41.67%
won
Description
No information
Round 1
For every universe that is capable of harboring advanced lifeforms, there are multiple simulations making the simulations more numerous than actual universes. Most of these simulations are primitive models of universes which aren't complete enough to harbor life, such as those humans currently make. Assuming it is easier to create advanced artificial intelligence than it is to fully model an entire universe and knowing that it takes more energy and space to model an entire universe, the second most common types of simulations are bound to NOT be entire universes but instead simulations of life/intelligence which can be made to appear like universes from the inside to an extent. Based on sheer probability we are less likely to be in a real universe than in a simulation of one and less likely to be in a fully simulated universe than a very scaled one which is created for life itself rather than life being a byproduct of the simulation. The simulation we are probably in is probably more similar to a video game map than a planet/solar system which are easy to fake in a simulation but more difficult/costly to fully model.
Framework
I will be arguing that the earth is not flat
Pro will be arguing that the earth is flat
Nowhere in Pro's opening argument does he talk about the earth being flat, only simulations so there's nothing for me to rebuttal as it's off topic. On to my argument.
Argument
If the earth was flat, it would effect gravity, time, the seasons and life on earth in many ways.
Gravity
Hypothetical point: Since the earth is supposedly flat, then it must have edges. If the earth is flat, the center of the earth would feel normal, but as you move toward the outer edges of the earth, gravity would begin to push you back towards the center of the earth. Gravity pulls objects toward the center. On a round planet, it pulls you toward the ground, but on a flat planet gravity would pull you toward the center of the flat disc-like earth. This means as you got closer to the edge, it would pull you backward toward the center. It would feel like a sensation of climbing up a steep hill, or perhaps carrying excessive weights. Plant stems also grow opposite to the direction of gravity. If the earth were flat, as you got closer and closer to the edge, plants would begin to grow at an angle. The further away from the center, the more intense the angle plants would grow. If you reach the edge of the disc, would you fall off and into space? No. You wouldn't fall off to space just as you wouldn't on a spherical earth. Gravity keeps you stuck to the earth.
Realistic point: The spherical earth. A person can walk forever on earth, and it will never end. Why? Because 1. The earth is round. 2. Gravity keeps them bound. 3. If the earth was flat, there is no way that a person can continuously walk the earth or jog for miles, because if they reach the edge of the earth they won't be able to continue. There is a marathon runner named Dean Karnazes who basically ran majority of the earth. This is just a taste of what he's done. (1)
- - Ran 350 miles (560 km) in 80 hours and 44 minutes without sleep in 2005
- - Single-handedly completed "The Relay", A 199-mile (320 km) run from Calistoga to Santa Cruz, Eleven times.
- - Ran a marathon to the South Pole in −13 °F (−25 °C) temperatures without snowshoes in 2002
- - Ran a marathon in each of the 50 states in 50 consecutive days in 2006.
That alone effortlessly debunks the earth being flat. If the earth is flat how is he able to run half the world? If the earth is flat, it would be impossible or extremely difficult for him to jog that much.
Time
If the earth were flat, time would also be affected. Currently everyone on earth sees sunrises and sunsets at different times, but if the earth were flat, time zones wouldn't exist. Because of longitude, someone in New York sees the sunrise approximately 3 hours before someone in California and every point in between New York and California the sun rises at a different time. This is because the earth is round. If it were flat, everyone would see the same sunrise and sunset and everyone on earth would set their clocks at the same time.
Seasons
Our seasons would also be drastically different if the earth were flat. Everyone on earth would experience summer, winter, spring and autumn at the same time. You know how when it's summer in the United States it's winter in Australia? This is because the sun's rays which are perfectly parallel strike the earth at different angles during different parts of the year. If the earth were flat, the sun would always strike the earth at the same angle which would mean that everyone on earth would experience the same seasons at the same time of the year.
Lunar Eclipse
We would also not be able to see lunar eclipses in the same way we do now. The shape of our round earth's shadow is what creates the lunar eclipse. If the earth were flat that means there's only one possible orientation that the sun moon earth alignment would create a circular shadow. Lunar eclipses would only occur at a midnight position, but the sun, earth and moon perfectly aligned.
Other planets
Since the earth is flat, how are the other planets round? Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. Or are you saying that they are flat too? If the earth is flat why has nobody ever been able to find the edge or even document it?
The earth is not flat. It is very round, a perfect sphere.
Sources:
Earth Images | NASA - If NASA has supposedly faked thousands of images of the round earth, why isn't there even one picture of the edge?
Round 2
Nowhere in Pro's opening argument does he talk about the earth being flat, only simulations so there's nothing for me to rebuttal as it's off topic.
The earth is most likely to be flat because a round earth makes less sense in a simulation. Even if the earth becomes round in an illusory way from a certain vantage point the holographic earth is technically flat. Mainstream physicists often admit the universe is flat and holographic, you just have to scale it down to a more realistic model according to my framework and you have flat earth. The world we inhabit is flat and the universe part is like the out of bounds areas in minecraft.
We’ve known about gravity since Newton’s apocryphal encounter with the apple, but we’re still struggling to make sense of it. While the other three forces of nature are all due to the activity of quantum fields, our best theory of gravity describes it as bent space-time. For decades, physicists have tried to use quantum field theories to describe gravity, but those efforts are incomplete at best.
One of the most promising of those efforts treats gravity as something like a hologram — a three-dimensional effect that pops out of a flat, two-dimensional surface. Currently, the only concrete example of such a theory is the AdS/CFT correspondence, in which a particular type of quantum field theory, called a conformal field theory (CFT), gives rise to gravity in so-called anti-de Sitter (AdS) space. In the bizarre curves of AdS space, a finite boundary can encapsulate an infinite world. Juan Maldacena, the theory’s discoverer, has called it a “universe in a bottle.”
But our universe isn’t a bottle. Our universe is (largely) flat. Any bottle that would contain our flat universe would have to be infinitely far away in space and time. Physicists call this cosmic capsule the “celestial sphere.”
The more of the universe actually consists of fully rendered "chunks" the more space and energy it takes so why would the aliens simulate an entire universe just for us? At most they would simulate parts of it but then the earth and the universe is still technically a flat hologram.
If the earth is flat, the center of the earth would feel normal, but as you move toward the outer edges of the earth, gravity would begin to push you back towards the center of the earth.
This is a moot point as it assumes gravity isn't simulated in the first place. Gravity can be whatever the programmers want it to be.
If it were flat, everyone would see the same sunrise and sunset and everyone on earth would set their clocks at the same time.
Not necessarily? Again the sun can be set to any distance or trajectory so prove it would necessarily work out this way.
If the earth is flat why has nobody ever been able to find the edge or even document it?
Because there's a whole lot of Antarctica out there and not many people, if any have the capacity to get through it. It could technically go on forever.
This is a moot point as it assumes gravity isn't simulated in the first place. Gravity can be whatever the programmers want it to be.
Gravity isn't simulated though. How can gravity be who whatever it wants to be by "programmers"? That's impossible. Gravity is gravity.
Not necessarily? Again the sun can be set to any distance or trajectory so prove it would necessarily work out this way.
How could the sun be set to any distance? You say it as if someone can control the sun which isn't true.
Because there's a whole lot of Antarctica out there and not many people, if any have the capacity to get through it. It could technically go on forever.
Not true. We have planes in the sky, drones, satellites all types of things and devices that can be utilized to document things. There's also people to who travel and explore. Like I was saying in my first round Dean Karnazes ran a marathon majority of the world. Ran a marathon to the South Pole in −13 °F (−25 °C) temperatures without snowshoes in 2002. Antarctica is in the South Pole.
If the earth is flat why and how have people sailed ships around it twice over without ever falling off?
It's possible to see the effect of the curvature of the earth from sea level (ships disappearing over the horizon). Proof that the earth is not flat and is a sphere.
If you are high enough in an airplane, the curvature of the earth is very apparent. Airplanes overlap the earth. More proof that the earth is not flat.
If the earth is flat, what happens to the oceans? Wouldn't they just spill over the edge?
How would seasons work? How would GPS and satellites work on a flat earth?
Why would so many people be pretending that the earth is round? What benefit of lying about the shape of the earth serve? What exactly would it gain?
The earth's layers. The inner core, outer core, mantle and the crust, something of which the spherical earth does have. If the earth is flat, then what's inside the flat earth? Is the inner core still in the center?
Round 3
Forfeited
Thanks for the debate
bump
I don't have the ability to vote quite yet and If I could I would vote for Devon. And my question to the pro is: What proves this is a simulation and who created the so called "Programmers". Thanks for reading if you have.
More rational to assume from perception. That's what much of our perception is . It's assumption from our standpoint, a flat surface, from the ground view, terrain and skyline.