Instigator / Pro
7
1553
rating
77
debates
55.19%
won
Topic
#4671
God probably exists
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...
FishChaser
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Rated
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
- Minimal rating
- None
Contender / Con
4
1486
rating
10
debates
45.0%
won
Description
No information
Round 1
In the beginning there was either something, nothing or a meta-state between nothing and something. Something can't come from nothing and something probably can't "just exist" . The answer is probably the third option: In the beginning there was a nothing-something that evolved into somethingness as we know it. The first something that was a something-something was probably God. Underlying what we perceive as reality, the nothing-something is still very present as the default reality that exists without God's intervention.
Reality is nothing but virtual units of somethingness popping in and out of existence simultaneously without God. There are probabilities and possibilities but they exist and don't exist simultaneously. Building a tangible reality on top of quantum foam is like building a house on quicksand. The only thing that has the capability to turn this into an actually stable universe is a God that appears in the foam as a Boltzmann brain.
I accepted this debate without realizing which side I was on, but all shall be well because pro did not specify what con is arguing for.
Pro: God probably exists
Con: God does not probably exist
Pro's claim
In the beginning there existed a nothing-something that is known as quantum foam, and from it came God, because only a God could stabilize the universe
Arguments
Con did not define "God", but I am supposing that they are assuming it to be "a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people" (Britannica) and not, "the perfect and all-powerful spirit or being that is worshiped especially by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the one who created and rules the universe."
From this perspective, God is not all powerful, but must be subject to a higher power because he was created. But what is this higher power? According to con, it is quantum foam, however this doesn't line up with con's statement that the "nothing-something" is not something.
Something can't come from nothing and something probably can't "just exist" . The answer is probably the third option: In the beginning there was a nothing-something that evolved into somethingness as we know it.
This doesn't make sense because the nothing-something is still something.
Conclusion
God definitely exists and is all powerful
Round 2
In your worldview did God create themselves or did they just exist?
Unlike a complicated and tangible structure such as a God, quantum foam doesn't need to be created. It is the most likely thing to "just exist" out of anything that could have possibly existed before everything else. It's almost like saying "the possibility of God existing existed before God".
What you are saying is that God existed before the possibility of anything existing whereas I am saying that existence is virtual possibilities but God can make a stable and tangible shared simulation.
Unlike a complicated and tangible structure such as a God, quantum foam doesn't need to be created. It is the most likely thing to "just exist" out of anything that could have possibly existed before everything else. It's almost like saying "the possibility of God existing existed before God".
What you are saying is that God existed before the possibility of anything existing whereas I am saying that existence is virtual possibilities but God can make a stable and tangible shared simulation.
I believe that God exists without reference to time.
I also believe that Quantum foam cannot "just exist".
1. quantum foam has matter
2. everything with matter must exist
3. everything that exists must be created
4. quantum foam must be created
Although the visual particles are constantly blinking, they still have matter and therefore must be created.
Round 3
Quantum foam does and doesn't have matter. Matter is usually just a virtual manifestation of quantum fluctuations that doesn't remain stable/tangible for any real amount of time.
You have put more BOP on yourself by taking the position that God definitely exists.
Quantum foam consists of fluctuations that terminate as soon as they come into existence, therefore they never fully exist under normal conditions. Your idea of God however is an incredibly complex metaphysical structure that somehow happens to exist with no basis. Quantum foam is the simplest, most fundamental, most likely thing to simply pop into existence out of nothing in which more complex and tangible structures can momentarily form before disappearing. Disappearing unless they have the power to stabilize quantum fluctuations that is, like God would.
You have put more BOP on yourself by taking the position that God definitely exists.
Quantum foam consists of fluctuations that terminate as soon as they come into existence, therefore they never fully exist under normal conditions. Your idea of God however is an incredibly complex metaphysical structure that somehow happens to exist with no basis. Quantum foam is the simplest, most fundamental, most likely thing to simply pop into existence out of nothing in which more complex and tangible structures can momentarily form before disappearing. Disappearing unless they have the power to stabilize quantum fluctuations that is, like God would.
Exist definition: To have real being whether material or spiritual
Nonexistent definition: Not in actual or present occurrence; not existing
Something cannot both exist and not exist - it would be a contradiction.
Yes, God is very complex, but the complexity of something has nothing to do with how likely they are to exist. Following my argument that a nothing-something cannot exist, there must have either been something or nothing in the beginning. To quote pro, "Something can't come from nothing", so there must have been something. And what else could that something be other than God?
