Instigator / Pro
1
1524
rating
54
debates
74.07%
won
Topic
#4644

Prophet (SAW) from Islamic Religion was a Pedophile.

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Winner
1
0

After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...

Bella3sp
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Two weeks
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Winner selection
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
0
1500
rating
5
debates
50.0%
won
Description

Resolution: Prophet (SAW) from Islamic Religion was a Pedophilia or Hebephilia.

Pro: Prophet (SAW) from Islamic Religion was a Pedophilia or Hebephilia.
Con: Prophet (SAW) from Islamic Religion was not a Pedophilia or Hebephilia.

Willing to change definitions if asked. Otherwise, these are the current set definitions.

Pedophile: a person who is sexually attracted to children.
https://languages.oup.com/google-dictionary-en/

Child groomer: Grooming is when someone builds a relationship, trust and emotional connection with a child or young person so they can manipulate, exploit and abuse them.
https://www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types-of-abuse/grooming/

Child: A child is a human being who is not yet an adult.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/child

Adult: An adult is a mature, fully developed person.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/adult

Any other definitions should be stated in the beginning of round one (unless introduced later on), other than that, any other words should be used in there primary context.

--

I'm also willing to recreate this debate for judges, if needed.

Rules:
1. Only one person can accept this debate, tigerlord. Unless specifically mentioned in the comments of a change, or he declines. Either way.
2. Burden is shared.
3. Anyone who accepts besides tigerlord (unless stated otherwise in comments) results in an automatic concession.

Me outa here

I think the challenge to this debate will be to compare in a convincing way how the cultures of today and those in early 600 AD are similar with respect to minor attraction and how that differs from young matrimony. I mean you don't have to go back that far in American history to see adult men marrying minor-aged women.

-->
@tigerlord

Alright.. It's been sent. Up to you to accept.

I can argue for Islam better than you can, Tigerlord, it is very likely.

I will do atheism vs Islam as a legal system as in Secular vs Sharia.

-->
@tigerlord

Yeah, I wanted a challenge, but I soon read the rules, and I eventually came to the realization that I was too impulsive on accepting this challenge. However, I will try to debate, so I can learn something. Once again, sorry! And thank you for the recommendation.

-->
@tigerlord

I do find it fun to hear the other side of people. That's why I wanted you and Sir Lancelot to duke it out about religion. There should be no reason to get angry over someone who makes fun of your prophet or God. Are they not big enough to take care of themselves or do they need you to do it for them?

-->
@TheElephantInTheRoom

I would suggest check my islam vs anthing2 debate and get all the information you need. Just use basic knowledge which is needed to form any argument to do this debate.

-->
@TheElephantInTheRoom

It's weird, if you did not have enough information, then why accepted it? That is how you give people wins, and they consider themselves high and might debaters.

-->
@Best.Korea
@tigerlord

I'd rather concede. I don't know enough sufficient information to form an argument about the topic.

-->
@Best.Korea

Already mentioned it in my previous debate. It's in resources. Where I showed what was custom and rules in England and Europe. I did not have much space in round, I deleted specific paragraphs about Jews Christians and other religions like Hindu and Muslim and some other cultural societies. Everything is there in debate. Also, I have said it before on this topic or any other topic I can write 100s of pages, and it won't stop even then. When you have habit of removing skin from hair then, you can do it. Removing skin from hair is the translation of a proverb in my language.
The thing is i could take this debate and could win even more easy then the previous one. But i have my own preferences, this debate was instigated without my consent. so i am not obliged to accept it. I have my own plans and schedules. I wanted to do offensive debates where i am questioning someone else believe or countering it with mine. this topic is defensive and whatever i have done i consider it enough for people to know about the case so far. Later maybe i will put more light into it if i feel there is need and can instigate debate myself on my terms. Though from previous debate i have found out that a voter can ignore any rule which i have set. like in last debate, barney just put BOP on me and rejected my own set rule.
While in previous debate the rule set by me for forfeit costed me my debate. A hypocritical approach. i feel very un safe with this biased and hypocritical attitude.

-->
@TheElephantInTheRoom

Oh, dont worry lol

They were about to make another debate anyway, from what I understand.

-->
@TheElephantInTheRoom

you can do it if you want.

Sorry y'all. I misread the rules and accepted this debate. I am going to find a way to opt myself out.

Edit: Unfortunately, I could not do that.

-->
@tigerlord

Have you, by any chance, watched Daniel's debate on Modern Debate on YouTube regarding child marriages? There were other debates about Aisha's marriage, but Daniel exposes how anyone condemning such marriage is also condemning his ancestors, as ancestors all approved of it.

Daniel is a muslim debater and one that I found very interesting, as he posts lots of content.

https://youtu.be/n4joxQUkf-w

-->
@Sir.Lancelot

I didn't pick any judges, and I was already going to send the challange. I just got busy.

on the other hand you are Taoism, I want to debate with atheist or agnostic.

When someone blocks someone, then it shows there is no concern with each other. rational mad

Tigerlord, vs me then

-->
@DavidAZ

Do you think it's fun to Debate about this topic? Do you think it's a children's game? Do you think slandering a prophet and His pious wife has no consequences? If you think that way then you are wrong. I have done it properly and in good manner. There is still a lot of information and data to analyze and use in this regard, but i do not feel any need of it right now.
I shall debate on topics which are more pressing, and I have expertise on them as well. Probably Islam vs atheism.

-->
@Bella3sp
@tigerlord

A fair debate with only unbiased and objective voters is something you guys both need.

Discuss this in dms. Tigerlord chooses 2 voters and Bella chooses 2 voters. If both of you agree to all judges, then Bella can recreate the challenge with those judges and Tigerlord freely accepts.

No point in negotiating the terms here in the comments because this will take forever. Either the chosen judges accept the invite or they don’t.

-->
@tigerlord

I told you. I tried to base it on the overall, but like you said, there should not have been points for conduct since there was no conduct field.

EVERYBODY has bias. It is up to you to sway the bias.

Anyways, are you going to debate this one too?

-->
@Bella3sp
@tigerlord

I'll take Slainte's place.

-->
@Bella3sp
@tigerlord

I am removing myself as a potential judge for this debate.

-->
@DavidAZ

Then why gave tie? You know if I would have gotten justice on that debate I would have accepted mormons debate and this one without hesitation. But I saw biased, that is why I am hesitating.
Even winning this is not big deal.

-->
@tigerlord

I suppose the conduct point was not warranted if there were no conduct points to give. Either way, if you can best your opponent here on arguments then you can be the victor on the debate.

Good luck. I really think your last debate with SL was won due to him not being on his game on that one, but your position is hard to defend and Bella seems a mighty opponent.

I'm not sure you are up to debating this one.

(49:11) O believers! Do not let some ˹men˺ ridicule others, they may be better than them, nor let ˹some˺ women ridicule other women, they may be better than them. Do not defame one another, nor call each other by offensive nicknames. How evil it is to act rebelliously after having faith! And whoever does not repent, it is they who are the ˹true˺ wrongdoers.

https://quran.com/49?startingVerse=11

rational mad man, are you sincere when you're saying it? Or it's just trolling with me?

-->
@DavidAZ

I have already given names for judges
voting period 6 months.
I will add a bit of my own rules. Some of them you guys are already familiar. But I will it again, why I should be defensive. I have done debate about this topic in great detail. this debate is nothing but to frame me.
even though I am not that easy to be framed. But still with biased votes and arrogant behavior, winner to come looser is not very hard.
david in last debate why not you voted in my favor while you admitted “Though I do appreciate Con and his abilities, but I think he fell short on this one, however Pro's extreme stance and his conduct would make this a tie”
I do not think a conduct should give a tie, because in 1 point system there is no conduct points.
you should have given me argument points.
Con fell short, then why tie?

-->
@Bella3sp
@tigerlord

I'd like to judge in this one if Tigerlord doesn't chicken out.

To mock people as 'tard' and dismiss them for that is Haram.

https://islamonline.net/en/the-prophets-care-for-people-with-special-needs/

https://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa-birmingham/19452/bullying-in-islam/

Be humble, do not judge and taunt fellow creations of Allah.

By saying that, you are trolling me?
By the way, what is the grand plan?
Islam is as simple as Nature. Islam is made up on Nature, we call it fitrah.
Do not try the same approach you do with Christians.
why I am not taking debates any more you wanna know?
Well as I can't wait for your answer so let me tell you any way.
As I said in comment section at the end of my last debate that, I will go on offensive stance, not any more defensive.
I can do this debate easy peasy, and can win even. But why not take a better approach.
The thing is you see anything happens within Islam whether it's in earlier time or even nowadays is with the will of Allah.
If I can prove Islam is true religion and Allah is creator of everything and everything happens with his will and in every process or event there is something good from him. Then it will be easier to convince, that something was destined from Allah to happen in the way it happened. Probably you can call it that grand plan, if you were referring it to be.
In short, if you are a Muslim, it will be easy to make you accept things which seems different for you now.
No matter how much solid argument I present, it won't affect you much, so why not try to convince you in a way I have already mentioned above.
In the last message, I tagged the wrong person.
as rational mad man has blocked me i cant tag him.

-->
@juniorrationalmadman

By saying that, you are trolling me?
By the way, what is the grand plan?
Islam is as simple as Nature. Islam is made up on Nature, we call it fitrah.
Do not try the same approach you do with Christians.
why I am not taking debates any more you wanna know?
Well as I can't wait for your answer so let me tell you any way.
As I said in comment section at the end of my last debate that, I will go on offensive stance, not any more defensive.
I can do this debate easy peasy, and can win even. But why not take a better approach.
The thing is you see anything happens within Islam whether it's in earlier time or even nowadays is with the will of Allah.
If I can prove Islam is true religion and Allah is creator of everything and everything happens with his will and in every process or event there is something good from him. Then it will be easier to convince, that something was destined from Allah to happen in the way it happened. Probably you can call it that grand plan, if you were referring it to be.
In short, if you are a Muslim, it will be easy to make you accept things which seems different for you now.
No matter how much solid argument I present, it won't affect you much, so why not try to convince you in a way I have already mentioned above.

-->
@tigerlord

It is Haram to ridicule or insult the mentally hindered with phrases such as 'tard minds'.

They are part of Allah's masterpiece, chosen to exist now as they are, in his almighty grand plan.

-->
@Bella3sp

Word forms: plural ˈchildren
1. an infant; baby
2. an unborn offspring; fetus
3. a boy or girl in the period before puberty
4. a son or daughter; offspring
5.
a. a descendant
b. a member of a tribe, clan, etc.
often used in pl.
children of Israel
6. a person like a child in interests, judgment, etc., or one regarded as immature and childish
7. a person identified with a specified place, time, etc.
a child of the Renaissance
8. a thing that springs from a specified source; product
a child of one's imagination
9. Archaic
childe
10. British, Dialectal
a female infant

i do not know why you want that? i have done whole 5 round debate about it already. and i have made everything clear in it.
its just tard minds who cannot understand.

-->
@Barney

Still wasn't going to explore that as part of the definition, but hey, thanks. I'll change it.

Just ask them "What do you think I should do now?".

That pretty much stuns them and makes them think you are taking them seriously.

But if you tell a therapist what they want to hear, they dont bother you anymore.

-->
@RationalMadman

Eh, therapists were mean to me in prison.

-->
@Barney

And that is wrong and part of the stigma driving MAPs to be too afraid to open up to therapists ending up with seriously repressed urges that only the higher EQ can self-therapise their way out of.

Nobody who experiences that will open up about it, they will bury it and that can lead to bursts of feeling the need to act on it whereas if they were more open about it and able to be comfortable with feeling such taboo urges, they could finally come to terms with the fact that it's a choice, acting vs wanting to and that fantasy is a safe area, acting isn't.

It sounds simple, the ending of what I just wrote, but is not simple. People learn to bury the urges, never having fantasies in their heads and scared shitless to come to terms with their sexuality. This does NOT help them control the urges.

FYI: the current description for the pedo tag reads:
The deplorable mental illness of adults desiring sexual relations with children; along with closely related behaviors.

I don’t consider there to be a need for nuanced semantics. In English common usage a pedo is a creeper attracted to pre-adults of any age.

Kritik: he was both! 🤣

-->
@Bella3sp
@tigerlord

I can judge if you are selecting judges

Somebody could win this by clai.ing he is both not or. This would force I stigator to argue against their own points

-->
@Bella3sp

It still says "Hebephilia" instead of hebephile.

-->
@Best.Korea

Better, along with the definition change or should I change the resolution a bit more?

-->
@Best.Korea

Yep, im figuring out a resolution/changing the definitions now.

-->
@Bella3sp

While tigerlord might not care, I will. I will literally vote based on the topic as it is. So unless you prove that Muhammad was a sexual attraction, I give win to Con without even reading what Con writes.

-->
@Best.Korea

I just said im fixing it to where that's not assumed.

It is same as saying

Muhammad was hunger.