Pro is trying to bait me into violating the description's rule by stating this:
I doubt Con's hyper toxic masculinity homophobic murder rappers are in touch with their feelings enough to have made a song on this side of the rap spectrum.
Paz has this side to his work but that side is largely away from the stuff he's done with Apathy. Furthermore, this line from Pro highlights a fundamental issue with Pro's entire case:
Nothing defines greatness so far in the debate. Nothing defines better.
Pro even sticks to 'rap' because Pro is fully aware that if we go into Hip-Hop itself, Golden BSP is a shithow joke of a sing-song mumble rapper and Eazy Mac (EM) is perhaps good but only slightly above average.
Paz and Apathy are gods both as rappers and influencers of a lot of HipHop. They never had the fame of Eminem or Jay-Z, true. They are not some new era Pac and Biggie but they are a duo that has pioneered a lot of underground rap and are much truer to the roots of Hiphop and rapping, than Eazy Mac and BSP.
I don't need to show you Apathy's ode to his dead father or Pac's emotional rapping or conscious rapping to prove they are better. As a duo, they specialised in horrorcore, battle-rap vibe stuff. Pure unfiltered aggressive rapping with slick flow and top tier lyricism. They led groups, united inside AOTP and separately with Paz leading JMT, AOTP and Heavy Metal Kings (a duo with Ill Bill) and Apathy primarily leading his group 'Demigodz' where he and Celph Titled are the 2 core members.
If you 'fact check me' Apathy didn't invent Demigodz but they dies out in 1997 and in 2000 he reformed them as the new leader with Apathy being the reason the Demigodz didn't die as he was an opener for Rakim and such at shows and Celph was pretty loyal too.
While Pro says you need to be on drugs to enjoy EM and BSP duo at their best, I say you can be not only sober but pissed off and unhappy and AOTP music will hit you in the feels. Yes, it's toxic, yes it's filled with hate and anger but much like 'metal' this form of rap they specialise in is euphoric for the unhappy.
It's not like you listen to AOTP and think 'oh let me be a gangster' ever. They don't sugarcoat the 'horror' of that life, it's part of why I appreciate what they do. They come out pure, unfiltered and show you the inhuman demonic aspects of being gangster, it's a different angle from a lot of battle rap. There is no way if you are a genuinely sane and tame citizen that you listen to AOTP music and want to become a ruthless gangster. Instead, you go 'wow they are nasty and that's a horrible life but fuck they rap sooooo good'. They actually have probably deterred many from going down the gangster route because they are so real about how a gangster thinks and feels.
It's battle rap, horrorcore rap... Hiphop itself at is purest, grimiest and lyrically peak performing level.
IDK what Pro meant about me going for Paz's earlier work. Paz has been around for a long, long time now as has Apathy. Their earlier work is 2000s stuff, even 90s. I actually think Paz in particular spat more annoying when he was higher pitched and less slick with the flow, I actually gave you later Paz in Round 1.
I want you to just sit back, relax and appreciate how incredible the rhyme schemes, wordplay and anunciation is from these rappers. Then listen to BSP whining in sing-song heee haww ding dong delivery and EM coming like hurrrdeeee hawww IDGAF yeah man chil chill puff puff passs lyrical skillz bruh.
Time to show you real rap at its peak:
FEEL THE PASSION, LET IT FLOW THROUGH YOU, PLAY HIGH VOLUME, WAKE YOUR GRANDMA UP (even from the afterlife if that's the case, RIP)!
Notice the flawless delivery, the way you can make out the words. The way even the few moments you can't it slides so seamlessly over the beat. The way you shudder, feeling both agony and cathartic sadness and rage and yet happy and peaceful all at once.
It's all an art. It's a fucking masterpiece.
Earlier track between them:
ALSO NOTICE HOW THEY BEGIN IN LATER WORKS TO TOTALLY BREAK OUT OF THE HIPHOP NORMS MELODICALLY, MUCH LOVE TO STOUPE MUCH LOVE TO ALL THE PRODUCERS INVOLVED!
The Game
Terrorstorm
youtube (timestamped link to skip intro)
Battle Cry
Never lazy, always encouraging high quality rhyme schemes, delivery and flow. Always.
Apathy and Vinnie were so indisputably skilled that often they'd actually not do too much together on AOTP because they knew each would hardcarry the other artists in tracks (but they still did have a lot of synergy when performing).
I am only showing you the masterpieces they did together.
If I had chosen AOTP instead of the duo, this debate would have been too easy for me.
Agony Fires
Now, for several from the same album (the one with Sumerians from Round 1). This album you really realise what Ap and Paz can do when together on majority of tracks in an album. It is PURE FIRE
In Death Reborn (album) (they aren't together in every track but this album was their brainchild and they are together here more than usual)
My personal fave? As fantastic as Sumerians was lyrically, it lacked in that WOOF I'M A DOG ABOUT TO BITE YOU vibe.
ONE OF MY FAVE RAPS EVER, it's from the album
Digital War
Paz and Apathy for life. Full respect.
Understand that I intentionally handicapped myself by not allowing me to use all AOTP stuff. There's so much fire there, so much. Apathy and Vinnie are only together in the same track sometimes as both were known to be monsters and hardcarry tracks with other artists on it but Listen to this:
Luxor Temple
Now for one of the quintessential ones. JMT, AOTP whatever you call it, this was a fusion, a unity between all the artists involved:
My man Apathy opens it <3
Now for something less usual, a slightly softer tracks from them (still rugged af):
Yeah you won anyways so you don't have anything to complain about. Aren't you glad I picked you as the winner? Sources would be pretty much tied. Arguments go to you.
Thanks for the vote anyway.
It was a debate, so the categories were literally:
Better arguments
Better sources
Better legibility
Better conduct
That being said, in the final Round, Pro shot himself in the foot by saying it should only be down to the music. I just know if it had been the other way around, I'd have been pretty pissed.
I feel you did better in all criterias. Plus I don't see any rules for point system for the voting in description or anything
You are supposed to vote on it as an actual debate not all 7 to winner. It was a debate.
Reminder
Memories like trauma or a party?
Please remind me in like 12 hours.
Drinking to drown out fireworks and memories.
Treat this as a debate (not a troll debate) and please vote.