Rap Battle: Sir.Lancelot vs RationalMadman
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 11 votes and with 21 points ahead, the winner is...
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Rated
- Number of rounds
- 4
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 10,500
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
- Minimal rating
- 1,750
(RationalMadman: You aint on my level. We never rap battled as each other, btw. Try it.)
Okay, deal.
------------------
This will be a No-Hold's Barred.
To avoid any errors or confusion, there will be rules and a framework set-up for voters.
Above all else, anyone can vote. But read the rules with careful consideration.
Rules:
1. This is a No-Hold's Barred between both myself and Rational.
2. The actual track for music itself does not count as actual points. Meaning neither me nor Rational can be penalized for choosing a beat the voters do not approve of.
3. All 7 points are assigned to whoever you think won.
4. Voters are not expected to know much about rap, so here are the following qualities you will judge on for both rappers in your RFD.
(On a scale of 1-4)
Lyricism:
Flow:
Diss:
Rhyme:
You will be required to actually read the raps from both sides and analyze your favorite lines.
5. No troll votes or vote-bombing.
You are expected to read the entire rap battle to even be voting.
(Any changes can be made before the acceptance of the debate at the request of Con. No one else aside from RationalMadman can accept, unless stated otherwise by me in the Comments.)
“Then they fucked me over twice in an election, then the owner returned to do the most shit update he could have to the rating system and cucked all us noobsnipers. It catapulted me to the ending you see now.” 1
Because you start fights and run fast.
I mass-debated before you tried it, I said I'd make a new site on the Discord server like a couple weeks before you thought of doin' it yourself with some guy payin' 1K to be a Henchman's sidekick,
You try rated rap battles 'cause you liked my idea and I challenged you and you knew the last win wasn't real 'cause Bella held back a vote, you're easy to provoke and just can't hide it,
Love a sycophant tryna mock his opponent showing love for Barney while having Whitesmoke and Shillton in a gangbang, all at once, stuffed piggy with a wilted chode down the throat...Fucking fake-ass supporter backstabbing failed abortion, sorta dude who's only resource in a battle rap's telling his opponent to choke,
- You incited harassment while a lynch mob did your bidding, just so you could claim you were winning.
- Threatening people who vote against you with retaliation.
- Blackmailing people by threatening to dox them if they don't stop saying mean things to you online.
Great job to both.
Lancelot needs to get better because he did a terrible job.
Rational won this by a large margin
Rational rapped a lot better here
Rational won this for sure
i think rational wins because of their superior skills
rational has better rhyme, lyrics, and flow!
lancelot didn’t do a good job here.
RM took a risk by asking me to vote when he was 7 points ahead. Obligatory "let's see if it pays off" Dodgeball reference.
First Impressions:
This battle is a good example of complex rhyme schemes and metaphors against extremely personal disses with some elements of truth. RM is very versatile as an MC with good lyricism and would probably dominate in a rap cypher, but SL came prepared with 95 theses and is prepared to nail them to RM's front door.
Lyricism:
I'm giving SL a 2 for this and RM a 4. SL has good character references at times, but RM is very focused on metaphors and makes puns on basically everything he says. Maybe needing to explain references should count against him, but RM is very creative here with consistent metaphors, so I'm giving him all 4 points.
Flow:
I'm giving SL a 3 for this and RM a 2. SL breaks lines into smaller chunks, making it easier to see how they flow together, while it often seems like RM is trying to rhyme one paragraph with another paragraph. There are a lot of complex rhymes in the middle which can't be ignored, but it sometimes seems like the length of words and syllables is completely based on finishing RM's train of thought, rather than following a consistent structure. Recognizing that many professional rappers do something similar to this, I'm still giving RM 2 points on flow.
Diss:
SL does well here. There's a history of beef between these two MCs and SL references a lot of it, pointing to specific events that happen. Even though it didn't rhyme with anything, and RM later has a good response, "OMG Barney, you're such a manly man!!" was pretty funny. Both sides use references, but SL uses more of them. While RM will link to something and then use a complex rhyming metaphor, SL tends to stay on topic more to the thing being discussed. While this doesn't allow for many complex rhyme schemes, sometimes simple works best. SL is able to give straightforward criticisms of RM, so I give him a 4 for disses.
RM makes use of a lot of analogies, comparing himself to King Arthur and using complex rhyme schemes. But I'm only evaluating the quality of disses here, not rhymes. RM's strongest line is his comeback about SL's post thanking Barney and whiteflame (although I posted on that thread too so maybe I should take offense to that?) Regardless, these are well-developed analogies that paint a clear picture. However, they mostly come across as threats or taunts that could be used against anyone, not specifically SL. I know that's not always the most important thing in rap battles, but when I have to separate disses from flow and lyricism, there's not much left to evaluate. I give this a 3, since the disses are good, even if they're not always based on real events.
Rhyming:
I looked for the best examples I could find of this from each rapper. SL's best was in R3, because I think he rhymed the most consistently there. "velocity" and "ferocity" were decently impressive rhymes, and "screw up" and "abuse...much" was a good multisyllabic rhyme. There's some loss of consistency since not every line rhymes, but I acknowledge that some of these lines are meant to be hype lines before a verse starts. I give SL's rhyming a 2.
RM has a lot of good examples, most prominently the opening of his R1 when "wetter" is rhymed with 7 other words on two syllables. There are a few slant rhymes, but RM balances very complex rhyme schemes with bars that make sense. I looked to see if these rhymes came at the expense of jumping from one topic to another or not making sense, and that was not the case. Regardless of how he did overall, RM's rhyming was very good, and I'll give it a 4.
Favorite line from SL: "Must hurt that The People chose an anti-semitic racist as President just so they didn't get stuck with you. Couldn’t even woo them with your charm and charisma, everyone was better off when you left."
Favorite line from RM: "Love a sycophant tryna mock his opponent showing love for Barney while having Whitesmoke and Shillton in a gangbang, all at once, stuffed piggy with a wilted chode down the throat"
RM wins 13 to 11, but this is a close one due to the use of very different strategies from each side.
Round 1
Pro
Lyricism: 4
Flow: 2
Diss: 3
Rhyme: 3
Total points: 12
Con
Lyricism: 4
Flow:4
Diss:3
Rhyme: 2
Total points: 13
Winner: Con
Round 2
Pro
Lyricism: 3
Flow: 2
Diss: 4
Rhyme: 2
Total points: 11
Con
Lyricism: 3
Flow: 4
Diss: 4
Rhyme: 3
Total points: 14
Winner: Con
Round 3
Pro
Lyricism: 3
Flow: 4
Diss:4
Rhyme: 2
Total points: 13
Con
Lyricism: 4
Flow: 4
Diss: 4
Rhyme: 4
Total points: 16
Winner: Con
Round 4
Pro
Lyricism: 4
Flow: 4
Diss: 4
Rhyme: 2
Total points: 14
Con
Lyricism: 3
Flow: 3
Diss: 3
Rhyme: 4
Total points: 13
Winner: Pro
Con won 3 out of 4 rounds and scored in total 3 points more in flow and 4 points more in rhyme. Lyricism is equal and Pro had 1 point more in diss.
Con's best round was round 3. Con's round 3 is the best overall round. Pro's best round was round 4.
"You called for me to unleash my wrath.
Now it’s gonna be a fucking bloodbath.
And I’m mopping the floor with you."
Very strong opening from Pro. Sends strong message right at the start, and is one reason why Pro got Lyricism 4 in round 1.
"You try rated rap battles 'cause you liked my idea and I challenged you and you knew the last win wasn't real 'cause Bella held back a vote, you're easy to provoke and just can't hide it,
You run around trying to get under everyone's skin, but under yours is only trauma and overcompensation, my bad I already discussed my dick,
I got my debate count by genuinely efficient moves, you do troll debates for votes to undermine the system I protested and instead of fight it you gave up instantly and decided to act in bad faith and override it"
Very good flow in this one. Lyricism too. However, rhyming is kinda not sensed at all.
"“OMG Barney, you're such a manly man!! 😍😍😍”
“You are the most impressive debater ever! Let me put you on a pedestal so I get your autograph!”
When it comes to bootlicking, this little piggy gives VP Weasel a run for his money.
Always thought he could attract more flies with honey.
Imagine tryna act alpha but doing all that fangirling over Barney and blamonkey."
Very strong diss, although flow didnt continue well after.
"Was bouta vote for you in the Election.
Until you unfriended me over some petty-ass bullshit.
So fuck you. I don’t owe you jack.
How bout you quit smoking that crack."
Probably the strongest diss in entire battle. This is where Pro started having good flow.
"Whiteflame responds to me with care when he aint even mentioned,
Road to hell's paved with you standin' up to the baddest in the land, what good intentions,
I call the shots, Chief mod gets to bendin', I'm the shotcaller you wish you backed, that wilted cunt's got a shrivelled clit, ditched the site to ressurect me, even to my worst enemies, I'm trendin',
Do you see this syllable mastery? Think you can outclass me? I'll smack your face in with a wrench till your jawbone's bendin',"
This is where Con scores perfect in all areas.
"Must hurt that The People chose an anti-semitic racist as President just so they didn't get stuck with you.
Couldn’t even woo them with your charm and charisma, everyone was better off when you left.
Only a small demographic wanted you back.
Stepping to me was a Death Sentence. Warned you it would be a fucking bloodbath, looks like I've had the last laugh.
Don’t you dare wage war on those that vote for me or you’ll quickly regret it."
Strong diss, flow and lyricism. However, surprising lack of rhyme. Still, Pro's strongest round.
Pro was struggling a lot with flow and rhyme. At many places, there is no rhyme at all. At others, the rhyme didnt exactly work out.
In the first two rounds, Pro's flow is basically non-existent. Flow changes in the middle of the round, and doesnt fit with the previous flow. It feels out of place.
Pro scored better in diss. Slightly better than Con.
The lyricism, when we ignore the flow, was great on both sides.
Con had consistently good flow and lyricism in first three rounds. He only seemed to lose flow in round 4.
Overall, Con scored more points and won 3/4 rounds, which is why I am giving win to Con.
@Reason for Vote
Lyricism: RM 2
Lyricism: Lance 1
Flow: RM 1
Flow: Lance 1
Diss: RM 1
Diss: Lance 2
Rhyme: RM 1
Rhyme: Lance 1
RM longer sentences played to lyricism, and if read quick flowed,
Lance shorter sentences flowed and made rhymes more obvious,
But RM rhymes and flow 'also there, just the shorter sentences made Lance's more visually obvious on 'first look,
So still a tie in rhyme and flow, since different methods of reading made either obvious,
Lance focused on diss more than RM, more personal, more sources, 'seemed like,
If there was a brag category, might be I would have put RM a higher point for that.
@NoOneInParticular
Too much profanity, personal insults, styles of bragging, for my liking.
I suppose I like 'some rap, but not 'generally speaking.
See comments
People don't know how to read. All 7 points go to the winner.
Lyricism: 4:2. RM
Flow: 1:4 SL
Diss: 3:4 SL
Rhyme: 2:4 SL
Total is RM - 10. SL - 14. Per the description, SL gets all 7 points.
RM knew they had an uphill battle to get it all stitched together by breaking things up to explain some of the previous rounds. RM is a fantastic lyricist, using a great vocabulary, innuendo, metaphor and intellect. SL is crisp, and tidy. Easier to read. I think that the lyricism of the "diss" would go to RM, however the flow and execution forced me to have to read a few times, and that just did not work for me.
Lyricism - RM
Flow - Lancelot
Diss - Lancelot
Rhyme - Tie
===
Round 1 was RM's best round imo
Round 3 was Lancelot's best round imo
===
Favorite bars from Lancelot:
"Ground-punt you at a speed of light velocity.
You were unprepared for my relentless ferocity."
"You let me strangle you till you went blue in the face, Smurf.
Dragged you here just to prove I could kick your ass on your own turf." Clever bars and rhymes. "blue in the face, Smurf" was too cold.
Favorite disses from Lancelot:
"All traumatized, from that time you were licking my cum out your wife’s punani’s." That was funny.
"So fuck you. I don’t owe you jack.
How bout you quit smoking that crack." Hilarious.
"Accusing me of backstabbing you and badger, as if I pledged my loyalty to either one of you retards.
We were never pals. I’d never be homies with slimy scum." That was lethal.
===
Favorite bars from RM:
"You might pucker up 'n' say you did this challenge, had to provoke you fight you, I'm too skilled at this, and my Kung Fu moves got you startled, that's strike 2,
Where's the first? I'm Mike, dude, I'm Tyson I write this I bite on the ear, no fear, that's a tight move" Really like the Mike Tyson/bite on the ear flip.
"But you see that rope 'round my autistic neck that you disrespected's one that's been there when I've been lower than you'll ever have to go, build a moat,
King Arthur needs protection and you pushed the boat,
I'm a pirate, a ninja, samurai to your throat," Loved this rhyme scheme.
Favorite diss from RM:
"raggy shit-stain boxers, shriveled up dick with the itchy rash trapped in" Lethal and hilarious.
===
Super close battle, both of y'all did great. Lancelot dropped straight bomb after bomb each bar and imo when it came to the disses they were more lethal. Gotta give props RM's unorthodox style and is super lyrical. Don't think I ever gave props to RM before but I am now. RM statement is right "I realised some of my longer lines don't seem to flow to average readers even if they imagine me saying it fast." I feel as though if you hear him rap what he says in real life it's easier to follow than reading on a screen on first read. I can catch most stuff but not every single thing. Lancelot's flow was just easier to follow plus got to the punch quicker. Not a diss or bad thing towards RM. He just raps different. I also get to the punchline quick too. RM is more intricate and it's more of a build-up and when it gets there it hits hard.
Do you have any interest in doing a Hall of Fame writeup for this debate?
I nominate fishchaser
This debate is going into the HoF, would anyone care to provide a write-up on it?
Round 3 YT beat got made private.
This beat will work just as well for it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNoG21hkbrM
Okay I realised the duration now.
There has been no official post to the Moderation Log about the duration or full reasoning of the ban on Lancelot.
Maybe nobody else needs or wants it except me but I want (please and thanks) to see and understand more than the oneliner on his profile and to know the duration.
While instances like this are thankfully rare, this does exemplify why it would be useful for moderators to be able to remove votes even after the voting period has closed.
Even without correcting ELO, this would still mitigate the impacts of such poor faith voters.
While the exact ELO shifts are lost to the system; treating a changed outcome as two wins for a fresh ELO shift would be a decent approximation.
At least add time to the equation. For example, account must be old at least 30 days old to vote.
Current standard is too easy to bypass for anyone in just 1 day, and to abuse.
We want quality votes, not the mere number.
I agree with your idea to be able to remove votes after a voting period. That idea was proposed before, but never got implemented.
Regardless of how complex the criteria are, someone will be able to get past it. And some debates get zero votes, so we'd be making that problem worse.
Might be better to just give a 24-hour window after voting concludes for mods to remove troll votes. Right now anyone can vote 2 minutes before the deadline and swing the outcome with no recourse.
Will this serve as a reason for change in requirements that users need to have to be able to vote on rated debates?
Voting requirements should be higher than doing a few troll debates. This is an obvious example that should serve as a reason.
I have never seen a bigger vote spam than this, and the fact is that these vote spams can change outcomes of any rated debate.
I’ll confirm Savant’s response. They had a number of debates against one another, all of which I deleted.
They did troll debates against each other, but those have since been deleted.
How were those accounts able to vote? Some of them have no activity at all and are a day old.
It is. That is why you were happy for Sting and Boba tea doing it.
Thanks, but this isn't really how I wanted to win.
Oh for fuck's sake.
This shit couldn't have happened at a worse time.
Congrats on the win my brotha
Everything I want to say would violate the code of conduct in some way.
I will just note that everything I said in the rap battle was proven irrefutably true.
Suffice it to say that I clearly got to this too late. For the moment, I'm doing what I can to handle it and investigating the situation.
"Con won this by a large margin"
*proceeds to vote for Pro*
I doubt guys will get to it because of voting period is ending very soon, but I thought I'd let you know just in case you do log on before then.
Clear vote-bombing and alt accounts here with the last five votes, do you mind taking a look and removing?
They of course, did it in the last few minutes.
I have waited for a long time to truly flex my username choice in a rap battle here though. That line where I use my username was the exact type of syllable flexing I made this username for even on DDO as I realised it would come in handy if I ever entered a rapping debate.
I have gone far in (a) poetry competition(s) btw. I just lacked the passion to risk it all and do that professionally. I am more logical than creative, on balance.
Thanks for the vote.
I disagree that it was close but I can appreciate your scoring, excluding flow.
Where did Lancelot exactly ace flow? Regardless I am glad you saw that I was continually dishing out punchlines.
What I actually do is something most need drugs to achieve. I do not form a thought alone and rhyme to fit it, I sort of enter a stream of consciousness in pure madman mode while letting the beat consume me.
At times I will not deny using rhyme suggestion sites (esp in the past which led to me now barely having to anymore due to muscle memory of a mental sort). What I used to do years back was regularly do so, I had talent regardless from a young age at writing raps, not as much true talent at delivering that is something I need to refine if I ever want to go semi pro in any way as my lyrical style in writing is requiring a speedy delivery at times that has to be intense and vicious and that is not an easy delivery style to pull off albeit better than pure rapid chopping on the regular. I also do not always have the same true accent that would suit what I write here, I write to be smoother to a typical North America continent reader (US and Canada basically), ignoring regional twangs within and such.
I often write it in ways where both sharp ah a's and flat aa a's work as well as trying to make a lot work regardless of regional twangs.
I form the thing backwards. What I do often is realise the rhyming word(s) that could work and push my brain to make a thing in between that lands the punchlines hard again and again. It is lazy and yet looks like very hard work all at once. It helps that I am completely fluent in English, I am certain that a person who speaks English as a true foreign language cannot bring their brain to do what I do as I utilise my subconscious brain's English. It is unfair talent in some ways but I will not pretend that it is not also refined skill, I wasnt this slick 8 years back etc and a huge part of why was I often had no ckue what people go wow to or not. Over time I learned to be lazier with metaphors. Triple entendres are not worth building up at the sake of flow and rhyme scheme if your readers or listeners will ignore them a lot.
I learned where to slack vs what to keep. I could earn money ghostwriting for a pro or 2 but the way to truly ghostwrite for a proper pro requires either good contacts and prior reputation in the ghostwriting circles or to be with the spitter early on and build trust and a long term understanding. The real issue is you are paid next to nothing compared to their huge profit margin for spitting the lyrics so you need ones who will pay your proper royalty percentages while you stay nameless etc. It therefore leaves you torn between writing something too good vs just good for them.
That is why most rappers with ghost writers still sound so mediocre, it is that the ghost writer did not want to write something god tier and get fucked over so they bided their time before the artist would go for a contract and then stayed lazy anyway or just aren't that great.
That's a great vote.
Thanks for taking the time to read through it.
Thank you.
I'll take a look at this in the days to come and may (or may not) render a vote.
Removed for ineligibility
Boba_Tea
07.16.2023 08:32PM
RationalMadman
Lyricism = 4/4
Flow = 3/4
Diss = 2/4
Rhyme = 3/4
Sir.Lancelot
Lyricism = 2/4
Flow = 4/4
Diss = 4/4
Rhyme = 3/4
Lancelot wins by 1 point.
The truth is I was rooting for Rational by a long-shot. If the rules weren’t as they were, I would’ve given him the win because his lyricism is that much better.
However, Lancelot’s disses were the only redeeming quality that landed him in first place. In a No-Hold’s Barred, this is the priority.
Feel free to message me if either of you have any questions.
Tyvm for the vote.
Ironically I think my Round 4 had the best flow but other than that I can see your logic and taste.
If you want to see the internal flow and rhyming to the longer lines with the word 'provoke' in them, message me, otherwise fair enough.
I actually believe you are not from US or Canada nor any english speaking nation? The reason I ask is solely to understand the accent and tempo of talking that you hear in your head while reading. A Korean reading English (if you are SK) would see the flow in the areas you said and not at all see it in my longer line because they emphasise vowels and such differently when even doing K-pop rapping etc.
Sup bro.
How are you doing today?
RM no I don’t have any interest in voting on this.
Could you possibly walk me through Lancelot's flow and rhyming let alone how his lyricism is not a 0?
I am genuinely serious. I have tried hard to see what anyone other than FishChaser saw in this battle.
No no, I mean how did Lancelot score anything in rhyme above a 1?
I have tried to read his rap in varying accents and tempos and every Round is a shitshow in rhyming.
I cannot see his rhyming skill at all. He is writing non rhyming text for nearly the entirety of round 4 for example.
I have said many a time that the rhythm you have in your head is not clear based on how it is written. The inflexion, and cadence etc. So while something may not read like it has good rhymes, it may sound better if spoken with the style you are looking for. You admitted just as such yourself.
I dont know why you keep badgering me about it. This is the reason I said I would not vote rap debates anymore.
Do you have any interest to vote on this possibly? Idc if it is against me.
Do you have any interest to vote on this possibly? Idc if it is against me.
Ty in advance if you vote.
Do you have any interest to vote on this possibly? Idc if it is against me.
Do you have any interest to vote on this possibly? Idc if it is against me.
How did Lancelot get 4 out of 4 rhyme in this?
Like what am I reading? I cannot fathom what accent he rhymes in. Every round it is dogshit rhyme scheme and flow.
How
Could you possibly walk me through the scores you gave and give me examples?
Specifically rhyme?
I am genuinely confused how the final round of Pro even rhymes for the majority of it... I just seriously reread it to see what others see in it and can't believe that even counts as rap LOL
Same with you, please read it all and vote. Thanks in advance, regardless of who you vote.
Out of curiosity does something like this interest you at all to vote on?
I am aware that you tend to like simpler flows and thus Lancelot may be to your taste more in that sense but regardless I encourage you to read it to the end and vote.
I am losing regardless at this point, if you vote for me, so I have nothing to lose requesting this.
> "I am done reacting. You poked the bear. Enjoy your time here."
No threat detected. Certainly a statement which implies dislike, but nothing which implies any intent to inflict harm.
Removed for ineligibility
Sting
07.16.2023 12:47PM
Reason:
sirlancelot
lyrics 4
flow 3
roast 4
rhyme 3
rationmcman
lyrics 2
flow 1
diss 2
rhyme 4
lancelot has better lyrics and disses. they were easy for me to understand. macman doesn’t know how to write very good or carry a tune, his lyrics were very choppy, but it’s ok because not everyone listens to rap
all of the rounds got very brutal and poetic so i give disses and lyrics to lancelot. he also makes more sense so he gets better flow but macman uses more rhymes.
Lancelot is enabling people to vote on debates that shouldn't even be able to vote on them yet via spamming troll debates and then asking them to vote in his favour here as a returned thing.
Thank you!
I’ll probably vote on this tonight or tomorrow