Instigator / Pro
0
1587
rating
182
debates
55.77%
won
Topic
#4498
Ron DeSantis is a better choice for President than Joe Biden in the 2024 election.
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After not so many votes...
It's a tie!
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Rated
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Two days
- Max argument characters
- 10,500
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
- Minimal rating
- None
Contender / Con
0
1522
rating
18
debates
58.33%
won
Description
On-balance.
Pro argues Ron DeSantis is the better candidate, Con argues Joe Biden is the better candidate.
Rules:
1. Regardless of politics, voters must be unbiased and judge only according to the arguments presented.
2. BOP is shared.
3. One forfeit is the loss of a conduct point. Two are an autoloss.
Round 1
Preamble
I will be making the case that Ron DeSantis is a better choice for President than Joe Biden in the 2024 election. I will go over why Ron is qualified for the role in Round 2, but in this round. I wish to discuss why Biden is a bad president.
- Too old and senile.
- Unreliability & Incompetence.
- A lot of passivity in the role and not a lot of response to demand.
- Hated by his own party.
- Creating more problems than he solves.
Biden’s Age and Mental Problems
Biden is 80 years old and is raising concerns about his mental health for obvious reasons.
- Slurring.
- Chronic Memory Problems
- Mumbling.
“All of this is connected to slurring, mumbling, forgetting, wandering,” Ms Kelly said. “All these are signs of dementia. “And if you listen to him lately, it's starting to go even more south.” 1
The Presidency is a young man’s game. It is too much of a burden for someone of their prime and has even taken its toll on Barack Obama. For someone as cognitively impaired as Joe Biden and is progressively deteriorating, there is no way of predicting what will happen.
Biden has apparently dealt with two brain aneurysms and heart issues.
- “Is 80-year-old Joe Biden really fit for four more years? After a first term marked by gaffes and falls, doctors tell DailyMail.com they fear for health of President who has suffered two brain aneurysms and has a heart issue that raises his risk of dementia”
- “Biden's yearly physical exam revealed America's oldest President is suffering from seven conditions, including a heart condition that makes the muscle beat too fast, causing dizziness and confusion. He has also suffered two brain aneurysms.” 1
How can someone this mentally inept be trusted to run a nation when he can’t even take care of himself?
Unreliability & Incompetence & Failure to respond to Demand
In May, 2022, production companies reported a shortage of baby formula. These complaints reached White House officials and the concerns were that the problem could spiral out of control and become even more disastrous without urgent action. Instead of acting on this immediately, Joe Biden waited several months before he would start planning on how to deal with the problem. His excuse was that he underestimated just how big of a problem it really was.
- “On June 1, Biden convened a virtual meeting at the White House with senior executives of baby formula manufacturers. They told the President more than once that that as soon as the Abbott recalls were announced in February, they knew they had a serious problem on their hands.
The President then made a striking admission: Unlike those executives, he did not become aware of the gravity of the formula shortage until months after the Abbott recalls.
“They did, but I didn’t,” Biden said. “I became aware of this problem sometime in – after April – in early April, about how intense it was.”
The President added: “So, we did everything in our power from that point on, and that’s all I can tell you right now.
Those comments raised fresh questions about the federal government’s handling of the formula problem, particularly given that White House officials had repeatedly insisted that the administration had been working around the clock since February to address the situation.” 1
Biden’s consistent failure to act, particularly with the Student Debt Loan Crisis was also creating problems.
- “But with the midterms looming and not much faith among Democrats in the White House or beyond for more wins in Congress between now and the fall, operatives are pressing Biden to move where he can.” 1
- “Biden has been mulling what to do on student loans for more than a year. White House staff drafted a memo on the topic weeks ago, and a final decision is now being targeted ahead of when the current repayment pause expires on August 31 – further aggravating progressives who say Biden’s indecision is hurting people with debt who are trying to make plans, and losing much of the political benefit he could get from it.” 2
There was a court decision made by a federal judge in Texas to ban an abortion medication that had been around previously for 22 years. Biden’s hesitation to act and lack of prioritization with abortion medication provoked a lot of criticism, regarding why he is so slow at taking action. 3
Hated By His Own Party
The Democrat Party didn’t elect Joe Biden because he was the best choice for the job, but because he was the only.
“WASHINGTON (AP) — A majority of Democrats now think one term is plenty for President Joe Biden, despite his insistence that he plans to seek reelection in 2024.” 4
“Several Democratic leaders privately mocked how the President stood in the foyer of the White House, squinting through his remarks from a teleprompter as demonstrators poured into the streets, making only vague promises of action because he and aides hadn’t decided on more.” 5
Causing Too Many Problems
- Joe Biden is causing the economy to fail.
“President Biden’s economic record continually falls short of expectations, and for 2022, economic growth was no exception. He has missed forecasts for seven of the last eight GDP reports, and the GDP report for the 4th Quarter of 2022 – which still fell short of expectations – showed that half of the economic growth was due to inventories, while investment was flagging.”
- He has lied about Republicans to scare elderly democrats while also making medicare and social security more expensive.
“President Biden has been making inaccurate accusations about Republicans and fearmongering to scare seniors when Republicans have been clear we are not going to touch their retirement security. Biden has also been making Medicare and Social Security worse off — not protecting them. Medicare premiums have risen for seniors since 2020, while Biden’s ongoing inflation crisis has pushed Social Security further towards insolvency.”
- He has decreased workers’ income.
“Real wages have decreased 3.5 percent since he took office.”
- Healthcare has become less affordable under Biden and price inflation for insurance has gone up dramatically.
“Health care affordability is getting worse under Democrats’ health care policies, including under President Biden’s watch. Health insurance premiums have increased 55 percent from 2013-2022, and more than doubled for Obamacare plans in that same period. Even Medicare premiums have increased 14 percent since President Biden took office.” 7
I would like to thank my opponent for his opening argument. I will be making the case that, given the choice between the two, it is preferable that Joe Biden win the 2024 election over Ron DeSantis. My opening argument will be divided into three sections, one of which covers the pros of the Biden presidency, two of which cover the potential cons of a DeSantis presidency. Because I end up approaching the character limit, I will save rebuttals for round 2. All sources are cited by link.
1. Biden’s Accomplishments
Joe Biden is not a very popular president. His approval rating has been underwater since August of 2021. He has been subjected to a barrage of sensationalist media coverage aimed at lambasting his administration. Fox News would have you believe that he is not only a feeble-minded old man, but the worst president in American history. And lately, the left wing has been attacking him for lacking the progressive chops of Bernie Sanders. I will make the case that Biden is much more politically savvy than these caricatures let on, and that his administration has made real, tangible accomplishments that benefit a wide swath of Americans.
Policy wonks are well aware of Biden’s successful legislative record. On November 15, 2021, Biden signed into law the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA), a bill which invests $550 billion in new spending on roads, bridges, public transit, the power grid, protection against droughts and hurricanes, and other infrastructure. Biden’s predecessor often boasted of his ability to make a deal just like this one, saying correctly that it would create jobs and boost the economy, but it never came to fruition. It’s safe to say that the bill would never have come to pass through Congress alone - it evolved from an early proposal of the Biden administration called the American Jobs Plan, and was the result of tireless months of Biden negotiating across the political aisle.
President Biden has shown a willingness to compromise, put aside differences, and work with Republicans to get important things done. In 2022, he worked with Republicans to pass the first major gun control legislation in nearly 30 years, a semiconductor production bill which will create jobs, counter Chinese influence on trade, and fund scientific research, and a law which will invest $300 billion into better healthcare for veterans. And when Republicans weren’t willing to go along, he worked within his own party, negotiating with two rogue senators to pass the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA), which raises $740 billion, approximately half of which goes towards investments in renewable energy and healthcare subsidies, and the rest of which goes towards paying off our much-discussed national debt.
The obvious question that follows is: with all these achievements under Biden’s belt, why hasn’t his approval rating skyrocketed? There are several likely reasons. One, the media did not discuss them very much when they happened. Two, Biden’s party is having a hard time communicating these achievements to voters. Three, many of these bills’ benefits might take years to come to fruition (when another president could easily take credit). Four, we live in a polarized environment where the two sides are locked into reflexive hatred of anything the other does, and so many Republicans will dismiss these bills simply because Biden was the one who signed them.
However, these priorities are not of the “radical left”, but supported by a majority of Americans. 83% of Americans, including 79% of Republicans, favor increasing our infrastructure spending. A poll done by Fox News finds that a similar majority of Americans favor gun control that goes even farther than the compromise gun bill, more in line with Biden’s position. 83% of Americans, including 76% of Republicans, support allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices, which the IRA does. Large majorities of voters support the IRA, IIJA, and CHIPS Act, a majority of Republicans support the latter two, and 47% of Republicans support the IRA. Almost half of polled Republicans support a bill that 0 Republicans voted for in Congress. While Biden has thrown a bone or two to the progressive activists who helped him get elected, he is really interested in being a moderate president representing all Americans, or at least a reasonable majority, as evidenced by his recent pivot to the center. Americans may not love Joe Biden the man, but poll after poll suggests that they like the individual items of his agenda, which he has quietly been working behind the scenes to pass. And they like them for a very simple reason: they benefit people’s lives.
There is no reason to think, either, that Biden would have nothing left to do in a second term. He has promised to “finish the job” and pass the pieces of his agenda that have been derailed if reelected. Examples include a permanent child tax credit, federal subsidies for childcare, and free pre-K and community college. All of which, of course, a majority of Americans support.
2. DeSantis’s Divisiveness
Ron DeSantis, on the other hand, isn’t interested in what a majority of Americans want, or in meeting halfway with the other side. He is solely interested in appealing to his conservative base. He won the governorship of Florida by riding Donald Trump’s coattails, and since then, he has picked up Trump’s brand of combativeness, machismo, hostility, and diving headfirst into the culture war.
DeSantis has declared a war on “wokeness”, and has devoted all of his time and energy into fighting this elusive foe. He has done this with a flurry of legislation, from passing his well-known “Don’t Say Gay” bill prohibiting any discussion of sexual orientation or gender identity in the classroom (initially through the 3rd grade, now expanded to 12th), to cracking down on a broad range of things he considers “critical race theory”, to targeting drag shows and transgender bathrooms, to a bill giving healthcare workers a license to discriminate against LGBT+ patients.
I am not arguing that all these bills are very harmful or evil. That is a matter of political opinion. I am arguing, however, that DeSantis focuses all his attention and rhetoric on culture war issues which are hot-button at the moment, but are ultimately trivial and have little real impact except to divide people. Someone who sees wokeness as the greatest, most insidious threat to American life might see DeSantis as a hero. But such people are generally committed, ideological conservatives, far from a majority. Support for his bills is split along party lines, rather than enjoying bipartisan support. And in contrast to DeSantis’s war on wokeness, most Americans view “woke” as a more positive term.
There is little reason to believe that DeSantis would govern substantially differently as president. DeSantis has attacked the threat of wokeness so consistently that it’s inevitable he would try to expand his vision for Florida to the rest of the country. And the USA has more pressing concerns. We are in a crucial geopolitical struggle against Russia, which DeSantis has waffled on in comparison to Biden’s strong support. In the event of a public health emergency, trust DeSantis to sow doubt and vaccine skepticism just as he did last time. And as his party continues to praise “limited government”, DeSantis wields state power for vindictive retribution against his enemies in a way that has backfired for him, and the state of Florida, tremendously. His policies, transmitted to a national stage, would only deepen our divisions and distract from real problems.
As Biden has been pivoting to the center to address voters’ concerns about gas prices, crime, and the border, it is impossible to imagine DeSantis pivoting in this way. His brand is ruthless, uncompromising right-wing ideology. And this makes him unfit for a job that requires a man or woman to adapt to the needs of the American people and the country.
3. DeSantis’s Interpersonal Skills
While this may appear less crucial than the above two sections, I would argue it is still important. The presidency is a job that requires meeting, shaking hands, and forming connections with all sorts of people, from voters to congressmen to other world leaders. This requires some level of charisma, likability, and sociability. And DeSantis has none of these.
DeSantis, although stilted, reads off his speeches just fine. But basic social skills do not seem to be in his wheelhouse. During his term as a representative, he didn’t talk or say hello to his colleagues, and was described as an “arrogant guy” and an “asshole” who “[doesn’t] care about people”. Former aides say he treated them like a “disposable piece of garbage”. He dislikes mingling with voters and appears uncomfortable when he tries to. Even Trump, for all his flaws, is liked by his base for his humor and casual demeanor as much as his policies. One could say that this shouldn’t matter, but it does, particularly in the realm of legislative accomplishment. Say what you will about Biden’s gaffes, but the man is famously social. While DeSantis didn’t even greet his colleagues, Biden has been proactive in constantly holding meetings and lunches to workshop his agenda with other politicians. He has friendships across the aisle that likely helped him achieve his goals.
One could counter that despite DeSantis’s lack of social graces, he was still legislatively successful in Florida. But Florida’s Republican Party possesses legislative supermajorities equivalent to 70 US Senate seats and 305 House seats, levels unseen since the 1930s. While Republicans have a decent shot at winning the Senate and keeping the House in 2024, it will likely be by a razor’s edge, and the filibuster will stand in the way of any legislation. And unless DeSantis is willing to work with Democrats, almost all of his agenda will be caught in the usual gridlock, and nothing will happen. And considering what his agenda might be, perhaps that is the preferable option.
In short, Biden is an effective politician who has made real accomplishments during his administration that have benefited and will continue to benefit the economy, foreign policy, and American life. DeSantis is effective only at implementing a conservative agenda that a vocal minority of Americans agree with, and his views on other issues have troubling implications for the presidency. I now give the stage to my opponent for round 2.
Round 2
Thanks for the post, Con.
Overview
So under my first post from what I have shown, these are the following arguments dropped by Con.
- Biden is too geriatric and mentally incompetent for a 2nd term, as validated by medical experts.
- Price inflation (including gas prices) was at its highest under Biden.
- Employment wages dropped by 3% under Biden.
- Biden has demonstrated a chronic inability to act immediately, such as when the Baby formula shortage happened under his watch, failing to act when a judge deliberately imposed limitations on womens’ right to abortion, and not acting quick enough in the Student Loan Debt Crisis.
- That Biden has directly hurt lower-income families through raising the price of goods, foods, and basic living needs.
- Biden’s economy was consistently underperforming.
- Healthcare and social security have become LESS affordable under Biden, and prices for insurance have become more expensive.
Preamble
I would now like to highlight the reasons why Ron DeSantis is a better choice for president, through demonstrating his natural talent for leadership positions and his achievements as Florida’s governor.
- Ron DeSantis is proactive.
- Ron understands the problems of the nation, the economy, and what kind of solutions are required.
- Ron’s ideology and ambition are currently unmatched by either Biden or Trump.
Decreased Unemployment for Florida
- “In 2022, Florida’s unemployment rate continued to decline, dropping to a low of 2.6 percent in November — the lowest among the nation’s top ten largest states and 1.1 percent lower than the nation’s. November marks two consecutive years (24 straight months) that Florida’s unemployment rate has remained below the nation’s. Florida also continued to exceed the national job growth rate for the 20th consecutive month in November 2022.
- Florida’s labor force grew by 352,000, or 3.4 percent, over the year, more than double the national labor force growth rate of 1.5 percent over the same time period.”
Reformed Education
Through DeSantis’s investment, the education industry in Florida is now better equipped with resources to better reinforce the purpose of education.: Teach the basic skills required to get a job.
- “Through the Florida Job Growth Grant Fund, this year, more than $66 million has been awarded to 22 communities and educational institutions for this purpose, which is projected to create more than 19,000 jobs and training opportunities for Floridians over the next 10 years.
- In 2022, the Rural Infrastructure Fund (RIF) awarded more than $13 million to 27 rural communities in Florida to help facilitate the planning, preparing, and financing of infrastructure projects in rural communities that encourage job creation, capital investment, and the strengthening and diversification of rural economies.” 1
Countered Biden’s Inflation
“To build on this progress and provide relief from the Biden administration’s policies, the Freedom First Budget provided $1.24 billion in tax relief to Floridians, including a gas tax holiday that lowered the price of gas in Florida by 25.3 cents and saved Floridians $200 million and a sales tax holiday on diapers and baby clothes for one year, providing $120 million in tax relief.”
The War on Woke Culture
I will agree that the moniker, perhaps, isn’t very wisely chosen and may cause democrats to visibly cringe upon hearing it. But it’s important to understand what it actually means and stands for.
- In a Capitalist society, employers are free to deny employment to citizens on the basis of their political or social beliefs. This has been a problem for people who are trying to get a job, but can’t because of where they live. Ron DeSantis has directly opposed this.
- Preventing the financial sector from denying citizens loans, credit lines, and bank accounts on the basis of their social credit scores.
- Through blocking ESG in investment decisions, Ron’s priority is to secure and protect the investments of retirees and taxpayers, only ensuring that the return of the investment is optimal. 2
Biden’s ESG bill will hurt the nation.:
- “ESG funds consistently underperform.
- Last year, more than half of the largest ESG exchange traded funds lagged in the S&P 500. They consistently underperform other non-ESG funds. In fact, Harvard Business Review reports that “no study has proven ESG causes higher returns.”
- That’s because the investment strategy focuses on “green” motives and other agenda priorities of the Left instead of the potential for a high return on investment (ROI). Contrary to the president’s claim, it’s a major risk to the retirement savings of Americans to encourage investing in funds for the sake of any criteria other than its success in generating high returns.
- ESG funds are more expensive than non-ESG funds.
- ESG funds have much higher fees than other funds—these fees can be as high as 40 percent more than traditional, non-ESG funds.
- Encouraging ESG in investing means encouraging Americans to spend more to get less. Nasdaq reports that a majority of the assets in ESG funds are invested in the same holdings as non-ESG funds, which leads to this shocking conclusion: “For every dollar you invest in an ESG fund, a little less than a third goes into stocks you could have gotten in a fund that isn’t ESG.”
- Investing with ESG criteria hurts the economy in other ways.
- Fossil fuels account for 80 percent of U.S. energy consumption and are a reliable investment option. But ESG intentionally diverts capital away from this crucial industry in the name of a “green agenda.”
- It not only results in lackluster returns for investors, but it also ends up helping to suffocate the key energy industry that has a profound impact on every other aspect of the American economy. A struggling energy industry means higher gas and fuel prices, and higher consumer prices as a result. In this way, ESG investing is helping to drive inflation.” 3
Don’t Say Gay Bill
Despite what people think, this bill is not discriminating against the LGBT community. It is only stopping school officials from using language that isn’t age-appropriate and making the responsibility completely the parents’.
- “Public school teachers in Florida are banned from holding classroom instruction about sexual orientation or gender identity after Florida's Gov. Ron DeSantis, a Republican, signed the controversial "Parental Rights in Education" bill.
- The bill, which some opponents have called "Don't Say Gay," was signed by DeSantis on Monday. It reads, "Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."
- Supporters of the legislation say it's meant to allow parents to determine when and in what way to introduce LGBTQ topics to their children. It also gives parents an option to sue a school district if the policy is violated.
- During a press conference ahead of signing the law, DeSantis said teaching kindergarten-aged kids that "they can be whatever they want to be" was "inappropriate" for children.” 4
Critical Race Theory
- Ron DeSantis is ceasing funding from institutions that teach CRT because the diversity programs are what is causing racial division. He is transferring the funds to make the quality of education better. 5
Ron DeSantis is the governor of a state with one of the best educational systems in the nation.
Rebuttal
“Joe Biden is not a very popular president. His approval rating has been underwater since August of 2021. He has been subjected to a barrage of sensationalist media coverage aimed at lambasting his administration. Fox News would have you believe that he is not only a feeble-minded old man, but the worst president in American history. And lately, the left wing has been attacking him for lacking the progressive chops of Bernie Sanders. I will make the case that Biden is much more politically savvy than these caricatures let on, and that his administration has made real, tangible accomplishments that benefit a wide swath of Americans.
Policy wonks are well aware of Biden’s successful legislative record. On November 15, 2021, Biden signed into law the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA), a bill which invests $550 billion in new spending on roads, bridges, public transit, the power grid, protection against droughts and hurricanes, and other infrastructure. Biden’s predecessor often boasted of his ability to make a deal just like this one, saying correctly that it would create jobs and boost the economy, but it never came to fruition. It’s safe to say that the bill would never have come to pass through Congress alone - it evolved from an early proposal of the Biden administration called the American Jobs Plan, and was the result of tireless months of Biden negotiating across the political aisle.”
Biden’s beliefs, ambitions, national objectives, or goals aren’t very clear.
His inaction and scattershot funding is exactly why the economy is falling apart. Biden appears to have no specific vision in mind and is just throwing the money around to every issue he sees as a threat on a personal whim and this is a clear problem because it is not sustainable long-term and it is too expensive for the citizens to afford.
Whereas Ron DeSantis’s plan is transparent. He’s very selective about where funding goes because he understands what policies are hurting the economy or are ineffectual. This is not about a personal beef with Woke ideology, only bad systems. We know something is bad in two ways.
- If the money is going to a cause that is not generating results.
- If the funding is causing a policy to sabotage the economy in anyway or causing more harm than it stops.
Pro claims that I “dropped” the arguments he made in his first round. If he read the first paragraph that I wrote, he would find that I explicitly stated I would be using the first round to make my own affirmative case, and was saving rebuttals for round 2. This round, I will rebuke the points Pro has made in both rounds.
The Presidency is a young man’s game.
Joe Biden is indeed, in some ways, showing his age. The fear that he may be too old in his second term is a real concern. In the event that health or mental concerns serious enough to prevent him from doing his job arise, I would hope that he steps down and allows Kamala Harris to take his place. However, the conservative narrative of Biden as dementia patient is totally false. He can talk at length about numerous topics without “forgetting what he’s talking about” or “where he is”. As evidence, I submit Biden’s 2023 State of the Union address, where he talks for over an hour in this way, and energetically spars with his opponents when they start to make a ruckus.
Does he slur his words sometimes, or misspeak once or twice? Sure. But nothing to prove he is mentally inept, certainly nothing so extreme as the caricature conservative media has built, which my opponent is treating as if it is objective truth. The only reliable source my opponent cited for this first point was the results of Biden’s yearly physical, which has no bearing on the “mentally inept” claim. And there have been presidents with worse conditions than Biden who were highly successful.
Unreliability & Incompetence & Failure to respond to Demand
Here, my opponent essentially criticizes Biden for not having fortune-telling powers. Perhaps the insiders of the baby formula industry could smell a crisis looming back in February. But the crisis really spread to national attention in May 2022, and the president was aware a month before that. My opponent claims he “waited several months before he would start planning on how to deal with the problem”. This is a blatant lie. That same month, President Biden set up “Operation Fly Formula”, which ramped up imports of baby formula from overseas to the US. Also that same month, he invoked the Defense Production Act to speed up domestic manufacturing of baby formula.
As for the other two points, these frustrations are understandable, but both seem to be pressuring Biden to somehow bypass the judicial system. Both the student loan and mifepristone issues are currently being decided by federal courts and the Supreme Court. Perhaps if he wanted to be a tyrant, rather than an American president, he would have ignored these rulings.
Hated By His Own Party
The majority of Democrats don’t want Biden to run again because they are worried about his age and vulnerability, not because they hate him. Currently, 79% approve of him. Besides, this point only really has bearing on elections, not on how good of a president he is.
Joe Biden is causing the economy to fail.
A very bold claim, and yet Pro doesn’t produce a single piece of evidence for it. He seems to have forgotten that there is a global supply chain crisis caused by the aftershocks of the pandemic and the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Rather than acknowledging this, Pro asserts, without evidence, that Biden alone is causing these economic woes, without pointing to any specific policy that might have led to it.
President Biden has been making inaccurate accusations about Republicans…
Here is a list of Congressional Republicans’ proposals to cut Social Security and Medicare. Ron DeSantis also has a history of supporting such proposals.
Medicare premiums have risen for seniors since 2020Real wages have decreased 3.5 percent since he took office
Again, rather than pointing to any specific actions of the Biden administration that might have caused either of these things, Pro simply points out the fact that they happened, ignoring any context. Of course healthcare costs have gone up after a global pandemic. That’s why Biden signed a law which ensures that 13 million low-income people will pay zero in premiums under the ACA, and keeps drug prices low. What has DeSantis done to lower healthcare costs?
In 2022, the Rural Infrastructure Fund (RIF) awarded more than $13 million to 27 rural communities in Florida
As we shall see later, Pro completely dismisses Biden’s legislative accomplishments, handwaving them off for unclear reasons. I will try to drill down into that in a moment. But let me first point out that Pro is praising Governor DeSantis for investing in infrastructure, which is exactly what Biden did. I can admit that DeSantis did a good thing here. If he cares about logical consistency, Pro should do the same for Biden.
Biden’s ESG bill will hurt the nation
I couldn’t find anything related to “Biden’s ESG bill”. All I could find was a bill passed by House Republicans trying to ban ESG (again, so much for “limited government”) which was vetoed by Biden. I would ask Pro, if possible, to clarify in the final round what he meant by “Biden’s ESG bill”. This topic seems to have more to do with Republicans’ hostility to anything environment-related than any real problems, and the claim that ESG causes inflation is dubious.
Despite what people think, this bill is not discriminating against the LGBT community.
My main point about DeSantis’s bills was not that they’re discriminatory, but that they’re political theater, and most Americans seem to agree with me on that. Pro seems to believe that DSG still only applies up to the 3rd grade, though I pointed out in Round 1 that it has since been bumped up to 12th. At best, it is keeping kids from learning about gay people in school. At worst, it is creating a climate of fear and hostility towards anyone in the LGBT+ community. At any rate, the laws are divisive, controversial, and if DeSantis tried to implement them nationally, it would worsen America’s crisis of polarization.
Biden appears to have no specific vision in mind and is just throwing the money around to every issue he sees as a threat
My opponent goes through some interesting mental gymnastics to attempt to dismiss the good that Biden has done. Apparently, investing in infrastructure is good when DeSantis does it, but when Biden does it, it’s bad because he has no “national objective” in mind and is just “throwing money around”, and this is even why the “economy is falling apart”. Needless to say, this is pure conjecture, without a single source to back it up.
Biden’s plans get the majority of their funding by taxing the ultra-wealthy, large corporations, and stock buybacks - in short, people who don’t have to worry about thrift. Economists have said that Biden’s plans will not add to inflationary pressure, as they spread out a reasonable amount of spending over a number of years.
While I have covered Biden’s legislative achievements in painstaking detail, let me focus on the good they will do, as this is the core of my argument. The IIJA will create about 2 million jobs per year over the course of the next decade, and along with what people usually think of as infrastructure, also invests in expanding the power grid, broadband internet access, and climate resiliency to prepare communities for floods, fires, storms, and droughts. The Bipartisan Safer Communities Act prevents any domestic abusers from purchasing firearms, and invests a total of $1.9 billion into our desperately underfunded mental health programs. The PACT Act expands healthcare coverage to an estimated 3.5 million veterans who suffered from exposure to toxic substances or burn pits. The IRA will create about 9 million jobs and will reduce our greenhouse gas emissions by as much as 20% over the next decade. Scientists overwhelmingly agree that the way to stop our climate crisis is by lowering emissions.
The numbers don’t lie. The fact that my opponent praises DeSantis for investing money into solving problems, but when Biden does the exact same thing, criticizes it as “throwing money around”, tells us everything we need to know. Pro is using a double standard to portray Biden in as negative a light as possible, rather than fairly weighing the facts. His attempts to dismiss Biden’s accomplishments are absurdly flimsy, based on nothing except his own motivated reasoning. If Pro believes that these laws passed under Biden will not generate results or will harm the economy, I invite him to present a single source backing up his claim. I have cited facts, figures, and statistics to support mine. And I have not chosen to handwave away DeSantis’s accomplishments cited by Pro.
But as I have argued in my last round, it’s easy for him to do such things in the state of Florida, with a legislature dominated by Republicans who are slavishly loyal to him. We are talking about how DeSantis would fit into the role of the presidency. If we’re going to talk about “dropped arguments”, Pro has dropped my argument that DeSantis is far too hostile, aggressive, and just plain antisocial to be able to negotiate across the aisle in order to pass his agenda at all. DeSantis stiff-arms basic questions from the media, and locks himself in a bubble of right-wing journalists, advisors, and ideologues. He seems to regard the other side with utter disgust. Will he be able to work with Democrats to pass anything? I fail to see any evidence that he can, but with Biden, his legislative record is all the evidence you need. DeSantis may be able to rule like a king in Tallahassee, but in Washington, he would be a flailing, blustering nonentity who wouldn’t be able to pass a single bill. He wants to “Make America Florida”, but he won’t be able to make America anything unless he can adapt to the realities of Capitol Hill.
While Pro says that Biden has “no specific vision” and DeSantis is “transparent”, I would reverse these statements. Voters know who Biden is; they’ve known him for 50 years. With DeSantis, it’s all style and no substance. Beyond his showy right-wing populism, it’s impossible to discern what his views are on healthcare, foreign policy, business regulation, international trade, or other big-picture issues. But what he has said - e.g. on vaccines and Ukraine - is not encouraging.
DeSantis has not yet announced his candidacy, but he likely will before this debate is over. So perhaps new evidence will emerge on this topic, but I won’t advance new arguments in the last round. Now Pro may give a final rebuttal.
Round 3
Before the conclusion of the debate, I will clarify I am unable to respond to all of Con’s points, so for now I’ll stick to the important ones.:
- Biden’s cognitive decline.
- Biden’s failing economy. (Rising prices on medicare and social security, with decreased wages for workers.)
- Real harm impacts of ESG.
- Selective Investment to mitigate inflation.
Con makes a lot of bold predictions, regarding Biden’s future success. It’s perfect for supporting his case. The problem is much of our current evidence contradicts this hypothetical input.
A statement that stuck out to me that I wish to respond to first.:
“The numbers don’t lie. The fact that my opponent praises DeSantis for investing money into solving problems, but when Biden does the exact same thing, criticizes it as “throwing money around”, tells us everything we need to know. Pro is using a double standard to portray Biden in as negative a light as possible, rather than fairly weighing the facts.”
To be completely transparent, I raise zero objections with investing. My main issue is Biden’s careless spending & how it is currently harming the US economy, when there is zero guarantee his most recent transactions will yield positive results.
Conversely, Ron DeSantis’s picking and choosing which systems/policies to fund is more careful and deliberate. DeSantis’s funding to Education for instance has had more success than any of Biden’s payments.
Biden’s failing mental health
Biden is 74.
The average life expectancy for men is 69 and in the case that he does resign, Kamala Harris will be an even bigger disaster because of her lack of concern for American civilians. Ms. Harris is a grifter, with no actual moral decency or political standing.
Even if Biden is able to maintain the external illusion that he is mentally competent, the fact remains that he has had two brain aneurysms and a heart condition that puts him at risk for Alzheimer’s, which Con had no response to. Concerns by medical experts and his democratic demographic just demonstrates what the left refuses to admit.
He is too old.
Biden’s failing economy
Earlier, I frequently criticized Joe Biden’s constant spending because it has not only caused inflation, but it was hurting lower-income families who were unable to produce basic goods and putting the smaller companies out of business.
- So demand went up, while supply went down to rock-bottom.
“After two straight quarters of decline in 2022, any economic growth is welcomed. Yet underlying demand and investment remains weak and half of the growth was really due to an increase in inventories – suggesting that dark clouds loom over 2023. Washington Democrats’ $10 trillion spending spree created a vicious cycle of deficit spending leading to high inflation and rising interest rates that are crushing families and small businesses. With unemployment rising in 39 states in December and leading economic indicators pointing to a recession, families face the threat of foreclosures in addition to historic inflation and rising interest rates. 1
“At the start of President Biden’s term, the Congressional Budget Office projected real GDP for 2022 would be 2.9 percent. Actual GDP for 2022 is 2.1 percent.”
Economic scientists predict that a climb for this year is not going to be a smooth recovery after the damage we took.
As for medicare and social security, well, Biden made that worse too.
“Skyrocketing prices, a labor shortage, and a weakened economy are the result of President Biden and Democrats’ tax-and-spend agenda.
- The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) and the Penn-Wharton Budget Model have also estimated that President Biden’s inflation tax costs the typical family $5,000 a year, and hits the middle class and those just starting their career or families the hardest.
- For working Americans, in just one year, Democrats wiped out three years of wage gains through inflation.”
The prices for social security rise to adjust to inflation.
Real Harm Impacts of ESG
Con claims,
“I couldn’t find anything related to “Biden’s ESG bill”. All I could find was a bill passed by House Republicans trying to ban ESG (again, so much for “limited government”) which was vetoed by Biden. I would ask Pro, if possible, to clarify in the final round what he meant by “Biden’s ESG bill”. This topic seems to have more to do with Republicans’ hostility to anything environment-related than any real problems, and the claim that ESG causes inflation is dubious. “
I see no real reason for republicans to object to anything environmental-related. The problem seems to lie in the harms that these environmental policies cause (Which Con ignored btw.):
- “ESG funds consistently underperform.
- They threaten retirement savings and reduce the chance on a return investment.
- They’re more expensive than non-ESG funds.
- It raises gas and fuel prices.
- Americans have to spend more to get less.” 3
Selective Investment to mitigate inflation
I wish to remind voters of the following.
- I do not care about investing when it’s carefully planned and it’s likely to generate success.
- Joe Biden and the White House have spent impulsively which jeopardized the economy in ways it was nearly impossible to come back from. (SS, Medicare, less income for employees, or basic goods for poorer families, and small businesses being forced to shut down.)
- Ron DeSantis withdraws funding from policies that are actively sabotaging the nation and has a great track record of only using this money for the good of the people.
Conclusion
I believe I have supported my case with the above information and strongly urge voters to consider what I have to say, regardless of your political beliefs.
Vote Pro.
Thank you for your final argument, Pro. And now, I will give mine. To begin with, here are some of my arguments that have gone unaddressed by Pro:
- DeSantis is divisive and hostile towards anyone who does not share his right-wing agenda.
- DeSantis is antisocial, and the presidency requires socializing with voters, lawmakers, and foreign leaders.
- Because of the above two factors, DeSantis is unlikely to be able to work with Democrats to pass anything in Congress.
Pro did state that he was unable to respond to all my points, but just let that be known for the record.
Con makes a lot of bold predictions, regarding Biden’s future success…much of our current evidence contradicts this hypothetical input.
On the contrary, my whole argument was based on the concrete, good things that Biden has already done which will benefit Americans. There’s nothing hypothetical about it. Of course, whether he will be able to implement more of his agenda depends on his party's seats in Congress. But based on the arguments I have made about the disadvantages of a DeSantis presidency, a second Biden term with a divided Congress would still be better. Especially considering DeSantis’s party wants to roll back some of the good things Biden has done.
I raise zero objections with investing. My main issue is Biden’s careless spending…there is zero guarantee his most recent transactions will yield positive results.
That’s precisely the issue, though. When Biden spends money on an issue, Pro uses words like “careless”, “throwing money around”, “harming the economy”. But when DeSantis does, it’s “picking and choosing”, “careful”, “deliberate”. Pro has basically just restated the exact same point while ignoring the underlying issue, which is that he has no sources to back up his assertion that Biden spending money is bad and DeSantis spending money is good. We’re expected to just take his word for it. I invited him to cite a single source backing up his claim, and he has not done this. While Pro has relied on broad statements, I have cited sources showing that Biden’s major legislation, the IIJA and the IRA, were the product of months of careful, deliberate negotiation, and hard data showing the benefits they will provide.
Biden is 74…The average life expectancy for men is 69
Two inaccuracies. Biden is 80, but since Pro has said he is 80 earlier in the debate, I’ll assume this was a mistake.
And the average life expectancy for an American is 76 years. This average is, of course, brought down by people who die young. But at any rate, we have already covered this ground. I have already made the case that Biden’s age is not as much of a problem as the media makes it out to be in Round 2.
Kamala Harris will be an even bigger disaster…Ms. Harris is a grifter, with no actual moral decency or political standing.
Perhaps we could have gone into this topic further if we had another round. I would have asked Pro to present any evidence that Vice President Harris is a “grifter” or has no “moral decency”, but as it stands, this is simply an assertion.
he has had two brain aneurysms and a heart condition that puts him at risk for Alzheimer’s, which Con had no response to.
Yes, I did. I pointed out, through a source, that FDR had health conditions even worse than these, and this didn’t prevent him from being widely regarded as one of the most successful presidents of all time.
I frequently criticized Joe Biden’s constant spending because it has not only caused inflation
While Pro has criticized Biden’s spending, and criticized the inflation that happened to occur under Biden, this is actually the first time he has explicitly linked the two together. To that, I will say this. If the inflation surge was caused by Biden’s spending, it would only be a problem in the United States. But it is a worldwide problem, and is actually worse in Europe than here. Which points to the idea that I mentioned earlier, that inflation was caused by the aftershocks of the pandemic, supply chain problems, and the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Under the same circumstances, the same thing would have happened under any presidential administration.
As for medicare and social security, well, Biden made that worse too.
It’s interesting that Pro repeats this point while sidestepping my point that DeSantis has a history of supporting cuts to Medicare and Social Security, which I provided a source for.
The problem seems to lie in the harms that these environmental policies cause (Which Con ignored btw.):
I didn’t linger on the ESG topic because it seemed to be a relatively niche and minor concern. It seems to be just a matter of some companies making less than maximum returns on investments because they choose to invest in a certain way. They're free to do so under a free market. Why is this such an outrage that it bears repeating? Additionally, I asked Pro to clarify what he means by “Biden’s ESG bill”, because there appears to be no such thing, and he did not do so. Pro should have clarified his argument more here.
Conclusion
From the beginning of this debate, I have tried to the best of my ability to emphasize the benefits that will come to regular people’s lives as a direct result of Biden and his administration’s actions. I meticulously listed his major pieces of legislation in Round 1, and went over just some of the good they will do, in terms of jobs created, programs for public safety put in place, healthcare coverage expanded, and emissions lowered in Round 2. I have cited facts, figures, and sources every step of the way.
In contrast, my opponent has argued by making assertions, or linking sources which are mostly just other people making assertions, such as right-wing talk show host Megyn Kelly. He has made false claims, such as that Biden didn’t act for several months after the baby formula crisis, or that Biden was lying about Republicans who have very real plans to cut Medicare and Social Security. He has tried to wave away Biden’s legislative achievements with smear words, but no sources. He points to bad things that have happened during the Biden years, while failing to connect them to Biden’s actions in any real way. I have asked him several pointed questions which he ignored.
On the matter of Ron DeSantis, I’m not sure if there’s a moment where Pro even acknowledged a single argument I made about him. He gave standard defenses of his “anti-woke” legislation, but never actually responded to the larger points, which I summarized at the top of this round. And they are pretty crucial points, because I’m arguing that because of who DeSantis is, he will not be able to accomplish a single thing as president, because it is a job that requires compromise and working across the aisle. For the purposes of our debate, it doesn’t matter what DeSantis’s education plan did for Florida if he can’t get anything passed in Washington.
I have made the case that whatever one might think of the man Joe Biden, he is an effective politician with a strong ability to work across the aisle and moderate when necessary, and he has passed popular legislation that will bring about a lot of good for a lot of people. And I have made the case that DeSantis is a divider and an ideologue who has neither the interest nor the ability to work with people who disagree with him, who will drag us down into tiresome culture wars over “wokeness” rather than solve real problems, whose presidency (should he win it) would be just as much of a disaster as his campaign launch on Twitter Spaces yesterday.
But jokes aside, based on all of this, and all that has preceded this, the choice is clear. Like Pro, I ask the voters to put their own personal political leanings aside. Vote for the person who has made the more clear and convincing arguments. Vote for the person who has relied on sources and data. Vote for the person who has responded to their opponent’s arguments in a more direct way, based on facts rather than assertions.
Vote Con.
:) :)
Thank you as well.
Thanks for the discussion!
You guys may vote on this if you decide, but it’s optional.
What a nail biter!