Con has to prove that the Quran contains contradiction

“Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood,” (96:2).

“We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).

“The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: “Be”. And he was,” (3:59).

“But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?” (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).

“He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

Is there or is there not compulsion in Islam according to the Qur’an?

Here are the scriptures: 

“Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things,” (2:256).

“And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage, – that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith,” (9:3).

“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful,” (9:5).

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued,” (9:29).

Was the first Muslim Muhammad, Abraham, Jacob, or Moses?

Here are the scriptures: 

“And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam,” (39:12).

“When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: “O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee.” Allah said: “By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me.” When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: “Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe.” (7:143).

“And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; “Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam,” (2:132).

Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?

Here are the scriptures:

Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed,” (4:48).  Also found in 4:116

The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: “Show us Allah in public,” but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority,” (4:153).

Are Allah’s decrees changed or not?

Here are the scriptures:

“Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers,” (6:34).

“The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).

None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?” (2:106).

When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, “Thou art but a forger”: but most of them understand not,” (16:101).

So was Pharaoh saved, or was he drowned?

Is wine consumption good or bad?

I know this is something that is argued a lot with these type of debates, whether Muslims are allowed to drink and smoke and do things as such. Then why are these things called an abomination? 

So if these aren't contradictions, explain how and why they are not. 

1 and 5 are talking about babies and how humans begin to develop, the embryology etc. 

Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh]- 23:14

So the clinging clot is made from the sperm drop. 

2 and 3 and talking about Adam, the first man

˹Remember, O  Prophet˺ when your Lord said to the angels, “I am going to create a human being from sounding clay moulded from black mud. 15:28

Dust, clay and mud are different stages with the creation of Adam.

4 is talking about how man was nothing before. So before man was created, there was no man, pretty self explanatory. 

Or were they created by nothing, or are they ˹their own˺ creators? 52:35

This verse is speaking about those who do not believe in God. It questions do atheists believe they were created by nothing or their own creators?

Sahih International: Does man not remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?

Pickthall: Doth not man remember that We created him before, when he was naught?

Yusuf Ali: But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?- Meaning man was nothing before, and God created man. 

Shakir: Does not man remember that We created him before, when he was nothing?

Muhammad Sarwar: Does he not remember that We created him when he did not exist?

Mohsin Khan: Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?

Arberry: Will not man remember that We created him aforetime, when he was nothing?

1. There is no compulsion in religion, meaning you can't force someone to convert to Islam

2. War verse, where two sides are in conflict, there will be prisoners of war. Those who are captured are given options. They can convert to Islam, pay the jizya or face the penalty. Cannot force  anyone to convert to Islam however. 

3. Another war verse, same chapter as number 2. Read from chapter 1 and it talks about how the enemy breaks the peace treaty, still cannot force anyone to convert

4. Another war verse, same chapter, still cannot force anyone to convert. 

Adam was in fact the first Muslim ever. 

What does the word Muslim mean? To submit your will to the creator. Every single prophet did this and therefore they were all Muslims by definition and action.  Muhammed (PBUH), Moses (PBUH), Abraham (PBUH) and Jacob (PBUH) were the first Muslims of their times, not the first Muslims ever to exist. 

As you said this is a stretch. 

Allah does not forgive associating partners with him and this is called SHIRK. This is an unforgiveable sin because you would not be Muslim at this point as you don't believe in the 1 God. Any other sin, you are still Muslim, but a sinning Muslim. 

With the 4:153 verse, I don't get why Con left out a key part. Let me send the verse. 

Still We forgave them for that ˹after their repentance˺ and gave Moses compelling proof.

The people of Moses repented after associating others with God and God forgave them. 

God forgives anyone who sincerely repents, including the sin Shirk.

However God does not forgive shirk after anyone dies, but by his will he can forgive any other sin after a person dies. 

No contradiction here. 

6:34- Indeed, messengers before you were rejected but patiently endured rejection and persecution until Our help came to them. And Allah’s promise ˹to help˺ is never broken. And you have already received some of the narratives of these messengers.

This verse is not talking about any books, it is Allah's promises. 

If We ever abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten, We replace it with a better or similar one. Do you not know that Allah is Most Capable of everything?- 2:106- What is 'WE' talking about? It is talking about Allah. Meaning, if Allah causes a verse to be abrogated or forgotten then He replaces it with a better one. It is Allah's will, not humans and it is the same as 16:101. 

No contradiction here, more of a miracle. 

Earthly wine is forbidden because it is an intoxicant. Muslims cannot drink it. Wine in heaven is 'pure' as stated in the verse meaning it won't harm you. It is one of the pleasures in heaven. 

It is not even a debate, intoxicants are forbidden.

I think I have done so. 

If you go to the exact translation of this verse: Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh]- 23:14

You will find this translation:

And certainly, did We create man from an extract of clay.

It also says: 

Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah, the best of creators.

When it says creators, is it implying more than one creator?

 Isn't giving someone an option between converting to their religion, and forcing them to convert forcing? 

It's either convert, or don't exist. It's not a decision to convert at that point. It is forcing people to convert. 

So, my question still stands. Is there or is there not compulsion in religion? 

The Qur'an does not specify this. It only says:

When he recovered his senses he said: “Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe.” (7:143).

Thats Moses. 

And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam

That's Muhammad.

Now I can understand how this explanation would work for Abraham and Jacob, but when Moses says, "I am the first to believe" and Muhammad says, "I am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah", That does not mean the first of their times, but instead the first ever. The Qur'an explicitly states Moses is the first to believe, and Muhammad was the first to bow down to Allah. Explain this contradiction. 

So, does this mean that when you become a Muslim, some sins are ok with Allah? 

Does Allah's promise a degree though? Just like in the Bible, how God promised he would never flood the earth again, it stayed that way?

And if this is true, then does this mean that Allah doesn't keep his promises? In turn does this mean that Allah lies, and therefore sins? 

That is my question exactly. What is we? Meaning all Muslims, or more than one God? 

Ok, a bit of a stretch, but the other verses do imply a holy tie to it.

Is this answer backed up by any other Qur'an verses, or just something you made up to make sense of it?

Then why do a lot of Muslims call drinking ok? 

I bet you will be surprised to find a lot of websites and online pages with Muslims saying that drinking is ok. 

The term 'sulala' means extract or essence. There are many elements within the human body like nitrogen, oxygen etc, around 26 of these. The same elements that are found in the human body are also found in the soil. Remember the meaning of 'sulala'- extract. It isn't a contradiction to say that man was created from an extract of clay, it is true. The verses you brought up before were talking about Adam, this one is talking about the rest of man. The human body is also composed of water and the Quran backs this up as well. Soil and water mixed creates a sticky clay mixture, something which the Quran also mentions. 

I don't see a contradiction with this verse. 

People create things on a day to day basis. However Allah affirms that He is the Best of Creators as he can create something from nothing, humans cannot do this. Quite simple

No it is not. As stated, there are 3 options. Convert, pay the jizya or face the punishment. Two of those options do not speak about conversion full stop. One of the options is an option, not a forceful thing. There is no compulsion in religion.  

Muhammed (PBUH) and Moses were not born Muslim. 

Moses saw the miracle that Allah showed him and collapsed  and then accepted Islam. 

 I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the believers.- 7:143

He never claimed that he was the first of the believers ever. If we look at the time of Moses, it was the Children of Israel. And they were not Muslim, therefore we know that it is talking about the time of his people. 

Let me break it down further. 

This phrase means first of the believers- 'awwala almumineena'

Lets go to 26:51- We really hope that our Lord will forgive our sins, as we are the first to believe.

The same phrase 'awwala almumineena' is used when they bowed down. 

They knew that Moses and Aaron were preaching the message of Islam and there were 2 Muslims in front of them. So why did they say the same phrase that Moses said? It means that they were the first of their people. Moses was the first of his people, and the people who bowed down after seeing the miracles were the first of the Children of Israel. Check the Tafsir. 

That means that the phrase 'awwala almumineena' does not mean the first ever. And of course as we know, Adam came before Moses and was a believer so using our common sense and rationality, we can deduce that Moses said he was the first believer ever. 

I will repeat it again, a Muslim means to submit your will to the creator. All the previous Prophets did it, so by using the definition, the answer is very clear. 

If we look at the time of Moses, it was the Children of Israel. And they were not Muslim, therefore we know that it is talking about the time of his people. 

So, does this mean that when you become a Muslim, some sins are ok with Allah? 

It means there is such a thing as a sinning Muslim. No one is perfect by any means, sins are committed on a daily. As long as you keep on repenting and turning to Allah sincerely, He will forgive you. 

The Bible is irrelevant, we are talking about the Quran, we believe the Bible has been corrupted. Allah keeps his promises and no one can change these promises either. Within the Quran you can see that he promised to preserve the Quran. It has been preserved, not changing since it came down. But this is another topic, point is Allah keeps his promises. 

No, We is a royal title. For example, in the UK, the Queen says 'we are not amused'. Is she talking about others or her? 

Ok, a bit of a stretch, but the other verses do imply a holy tie to it.

Is this answer backed up by any other Qur'an verses, or just something you made up to make sense of it?

They ask you ˹O Prophet˺ about intoxicants and gambling. Say, “There is great evil in both, as well as some benefit for people—but the evil outweighs the benefit.”- 2:219

Smoking, drinking and anything else that intoxicates you is forbidden. 

So, Adam is a different type of human compared to the rest of Man? Was Adam created differently?

But, since Adams mistake caused him to fall, this implies that the Qur'an is teaching:

One man's mistake = everybody's punishments. Can a man be punished for his father's sins? 

So, since Adam fell from the heaven because of sin, why doesn't every other human exist in the heavens? They didn't sin. They are being punished from Adams sin against Allah. But the Qur'an also states that one cannot take the accountability of another's sin. So, which is it? 

Can you find the explicit verse where the Qur'an states Adam was created inherently different from all men? Can you find the verse defending this defence of the Qur'an? Use the Qur'an to defend the contradiction, not your own thoughts.

So, what is it referring to when it says Creators?

The punishment is death. I think a lot of people, including people on this forum would agree that if you are telling someone if they don't convert to your religion, or pay them off, then you will die, is a threat, and forcing someone into doing something.

Imaging a girl was being raped. The rapist tells the girl, either you let me have my way with you, or you will die. That is forcing. It is forcing you to go against what you want to do. 

Pro cannot protect this contradiction to the Qur'an. Pros only explanation for this vital piece of the Qur'an is that giving someone the option between conversion and death is not forcing. 

None of this defends the contradiction. It is you trying to explain how it isn't a contradiction using your own sense of reasoning and not the Qur'an itself. 

Some parts of your defence of the Qur'an have to do with you going out of your way to make explanations that the Qur'an doesn't even state.

Which is it. Are we to take the Qur'an literally or are we to use our own logic to guess what might verses mean. 

If Allah is such a perfect God, then why is it that there is so much confusion in his words? I will get to that part of the argument later, but still. 

So, there were no Muslims at the time of Moses at all? Somehow all of them just died off after Adam. 

This does not answer my question. Answer my question please.

It's yes or no. 

You are saying that Allah keeps his promises, but literally in my last argument I proved he does not

There are promises he cannot keep or chooses not to keep.

This is in fact not another topic. You stated that Allah changed the text in the Qur'an. Why? Thats my question. Why did Allah need to change the text in the Qur'an that he himself wrote? Why did he need to change his own word. 

I asked if the idea that some wine was holy and other wine was unholy is backed up by the Qur'an verses, or something you made up to make sense of it.

Also, if Allah can replace the scripture, then does that mean that the original scripture is not in the Quran today?

 Does this also mean that Allah's writing could be wrong, or could be not perfect?

Why would Allah need to replace a verse if it is forgotten.

Can't he just restate it?

Can't the great Allah create a perfect book first try?

Why does it need to be changed? 

Of course. Adam was 30 metres tall according to Islam. Adam was created directly by God directly from clay, mud and dirt. His offspring was not created by clay, mud and dirt like Adam, but from the sperm drop. 

We don't have the same belief as Christianity. We do not believe in original sin. How can one mans actions equal everyone's punishment? I think you are getting the two religions confused. In Islam, babies are born with no sin attached, they are perfect beings. If they die as a baby they get heaven immediately. And I did not get the reference to where the Quran teaches, one man's mistake= everyone's punishment.

Right, I get what your point is but it is a weak point in proving that there are contradictions within the Quran. Adam was created from the earth's elements and God put him in heaven. He made a mistake with eating from the tree and God put him on earth. Now he is in heaven again. The rest of humans were not supposed to exist in heaven, the earth was made for mankind. Otherwise, what would be the point in heaven?  

I researched more into this verse: 

23:12- And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay.

It is talking about Adam. 

23:13- Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging.

It is talking about Adams offspring ie the rest of mankind

Go to Ibn Kathir commentary on this verse, it further backs this point up. 

'Khaliq' can mean 2 things, the one who creates from nothing and the one who shapes things for example creating a phone or a computer is different to creating things like the universe. 

'khaliqeen' is the second option. 

However Allah used 'AL Khaliqeen' which can only be used by Him, as there is one creator which is reiterated throughout the Quran. 

No contradiction here, just have to understand the linguistics of the Arabic language. 

This is in reference to war. It is not a free situation, there are prisoners of war, which I am sure you know. Many non religious wars have taken place and there have been prisoners of war, this concept is not new. 

And how is a war started? Not by Muslim, but by the enemy. So the enemy fights you, you defend yourself. Then if you win the war, you take the prisoners of war. It is a basic concept. 

Punishment is death yes, but by entering the war and oppressing the Muslims first, isn't it inevitable? The rape comparison is disgusting, I am talking about war and you are talking about someone's free will. They are not the same. 

Everything is within the Tafsir, not my explanations. 

I have answered this misconception already, I have given the phrase 'awwala almumineena' and both Moses said it as well as the Children of Israel. The Children of Israel said it in front of Moses, who was preaching Islam and they knew he was Muslim already. Where does it say they are the first of the believers ever? Especially when Moses was the first Muslim they encountered. How could the Children of Israel be the first Muslims ever when they heard the message of Islam from another Muslim? Your reasoning doesn't make sense and you have jumped too early. 

Let me repeat this again. The term Muslim means to 'submit'. Adam the first man did this therefore he was the first Muslim ever. The Quran does not even make this claim, but the definition of the word answered your misconception a long time ago.

No, Noah, Jesus, Lot, Job and all the other Prophets were Muslim. I am talking about how the 'Children of Israel' as I very clearly stated were not Muslim because they worshipped other than Allah. Moses reminded them of the straight path and they chose to listen. 

No contradiction here. 

The sin itself is not okay with Allah. What is okay with Allah is when the Muslim who commits that sin turns to repentance sincerely. 

I did not say Allah changed the text in the Quran, don't know where you got that from. Allah brought down the final testament (The Quran) because the Bible and Torah were corrupted by humans. 

If it is referring to heaven, everything is holy, hence the word 'pure'. If it is referring to earthy desires for example 'intoxicants' they are not holy. The proof is within the pudding. Bring me two contradicting verses that state wine is holy and unholy talking about the same wine. 

The Quran is not the Injil nor the Tawrat. They are not the same. Therefore the original scripture is the Quran, it is 1/1. The Injil and Tawrat were scriptures given to Moses and Jesus for the people of that time. 

No, Allah's writing is perfect and never wrong. The Bible that we have today is not Allah's writing therefore it is not perfect. 

He did. The Injil and the Tawrat were both perfect books corrupted by imperfect people. 

Ok, so biology contradicts this, because if Adam had all of these defining characteristics, then his offspring would have had these characteristics as well. 

Again, the title says find a contradiction in the Qur'an, not where the contradiction has to come from I might add.

If Adams (the original human) punishment was to be thrown from heaven and to live on earth, then why must we all be born on earth as well.

Allah created Adam in heaven right? Therefore this means that his intentions was for man to live in heaven. Why must we all live on earth? We didn't sin. 

We all suffer by being born into a sinful world, but it was Adam that caused us to be here in the first place, according to the Qur'an.

So why must one man's mistake = everyone's punishment? 

Therefore this means that his intentions was for man to live in heaven. Why must we all live on earth? We didn't sin. 

Does Allah exist in heaven or did he create it? 

 If Allah created heaven, where did he exist before?

If heaven is a place Allah created for humans, then why create earth?

If Allah intended heaven to be for man, (creating Adam in heaven) then why did he create Earth? 

 if Adam sinned in heaven, doesn't that make heaven not a perfect place? Sin existed in heaven for Adam to sin, therefore heaven is not perfect.

If earth was made for mankind, then why did God create Adam (a human) in heaven? 

I mean they are literally a sentence a part, and they are referring to different things? 

23:12- And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay. 23:13- Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging.

That is how close they are. The verse 23:13 literally starts with the word Then.

If anything 23:12 should refer to mankind, and 23:12 should refer to Adam. 

23:13 is talking about "him"

23:12 is talking about "man"

How do you explain this, and prove you are right, through the Qur'an? 

Again, you have to use the Qur'an.

If what this person says is true, than that means that one cannot learn Islam simply from the Qur'an, but has to revert to multiple books to learn Islam, and truly understand it.

If Allah created such a perfect book then why did other people have to create other books to explain the Qur'an.

Again you are supposed to use the Qur'an to defend the Qur'an

 Can't the Qur'an defend itself,

If the Qur'an is a perfect book, one shouldn't have to revert to other books to explain the Qur'an. 

Taking prisoners of war is not a free situation. 

But forcing them to convert or die, is.

The Tafsir is not the Qur'an. You don't get to use others interpretations of the Qur'an to defend your position. You defend your position using the Qur'an. If the Qur'an doesn't contradict itself, then you should be able to explain why, not point to another person's explanation for it. 

This does not mean the first of that time.

It's a yes or no question. Just answer the question. Yes or no.

Allah replaces scripture. That is what the Qur'an and you say. 

The scripture does not say in any verse that there is a holy version of wine. 

So the Qur'an is not the original writings of Allah. Then why does Allah command Muslims to use the Qur'an to follow him. 

 My question is why does Allah have the need to change his own perfect scripture?

Why doesn't Allah just rewrite these books?

Why does Allah need to make new scripture.