Instigator / Pro

Americandebater24

1442

rating

debates

58.49%

won

Topic

#4445

The Constitution is not based on the bible

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

Sir.Lancelot

Tags

Politics

Religion

Parameters

Publication date: 04.29.2023 02:49AM
Last updated date: 05.24.2023 11:45PM
Type: Rated
Number of rounds: 4
Time for argument: Three days
Max argument characters: 30,000
Voting period: Two weeks
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open
Minimal rating: 1

Contender / Con

Sir.Lancelot

1587

rating

182

debates

55.77%

won

Description

Many people believe the United States is based on Christianity and or otherwise religious doctrines. here are the following rules.
Pro has to do the following: establish that there is a separation of church and state or That constitution does not use religion as a justification for its laws and policies.
Con must prove the following: That the Constitution is based on the bible, bible scripture, or religion in general. Con can also win if they establish that religion has political power granted to them by the Constitution.

Round 1

Americandebater24

05.06.2023 10:22PM

Pro

Forfeited

Sir.Lancelot

05.06.2023 11:03PM

Con

I accept your concession.

Vote Con.

Round 2

Americandebater24

05.07.2023 03:28AM

Pro

Apologies, I am not certain how my initial argument was forfeited. Allow me to begin by expressing my gratitude to Con for accepting this debate.

Opening argument: The Constitution, serving as the foundation of American society, is not based on any form of religion, including Christianity. This is due to America's secular approach to religion and its influence on society. The nation was designed to be a democracy rather than a theocracy.

First supporting argument: To demonstrate that the Constitution is not based on the Bible, one simply needs to examine the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. This reveals that the notion of religion as the foundation of the Constitution was not a prevailing belief among the Founding Fathers.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/first_amendment

If Congress cannot make a law forcing someone to respect religion, then it cannot be true that the Constitution is based on the Bible, as that would require any society with foundations in a religion. Furthermore, the First Amendment is the only part of the entire Constitution that addresses religion. Neither God, Jesus, nor any religious figure is used or referenced in it, which is another requirement for a society basing its legal foundations on Biblical texts. The absence of religious references, apart from prohibiting their ban and requiring legal respect, demonstrates that the Constitution is founded on the separation of church and state, not in favor of merging them.

Second supporting argument: As previously established, the First Amendment demonstrates that the Constitution is founded on the separation of church and state, contradicting the notion that it is based on religious principles. Regarding the justification of the Constitution itself, if it were indeed rooted in the Bible, one would expect its rationale to include at least one reference to God or Jesus, correct?

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/preamble/

In all constitutional texts, when citing laws or justifying actions, religion is never mentioned. Actions and decisions are justified by the democratic power of the people, not by a religious figure such as God. This undoubtedly proves that if the Constitution were based on the Bible, the founding fathers would not have separated Church and State but rather made their union a requirement. They would not have gone to great efforts to keep the Constitution and the Bible separate from each other.

closing argument: It is evident from the Constitution's own wording that, although the Bible is a respected right to express under Constitutional law, it is not the foundation of the Constitution itself. If the Founding Fathers had intended for their religious beliefs to form the basis of our society, the phrasing and statements in the First Amendment and others would not be possible. Denying the separation of church and state, and thus the Founding Fathers' refusal to incorporate religious influences into the Constitution, contradicts its own stances and claims. The Constitution asserts that America is secular and does not justify itself under any religious pretext.

Vote Pro

Sir.Lancelot

05.10.2023 02:27AM

Con

Will post my rebuttal in the next round. Lost track of time.

Round 3

Americandebater24

05.10.2023 05:27AM

Pro

As my opponent was unable to make a rebuttal, I will wait until he makes one and address it in our final round. until then my argument remains unchanged.

Sir.Lancelot

05.10.2023 06:02AM

Con

Pro’s argument consistently asserts the separation of church and state as a justification for why the Constitution isn’t based on religious principles.

Here, I bring up the concept of Free Will to refute this idea. The Founding Fathers rejected the idea of a religious ideology dictatorship, and used free will as encouragement for this law.

Like The Bible, mankind has the freedom, self-governance, and autonomy to make their own choices and decisions.

Definitions

Based On - To use an idea, a fact, a situation, etc. as the point from which something can be developed.

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/base-on#:~:text=base%20on-,phrasal%20verb,which%20something%20can%20be%20developed

So long as the Bible was the foundation for them to bounce ideas from, it makes no difference if the Constitution is 100% biblically-accurate and I make no such claims that it is.

Only that the Constitution was influenced by the Bible which is all I need to prove.

The Bible-Inspired Influence on the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights

https://thefounding.net/the-bible-inspired-influences-on-the-u-s-constitution-and-u-s-bill-of-rights/

The U. S. Constitution is based on Bible-aligned moral, philosophical, and political beliefs

In fact, the Bible itself was also a very strong, direct influence on founding-era Americans who drafted and ratified the Constitution.

Round 4

Americandebater24

05.10.2023 04:51PM

Pro

opening statement: Con argues that the Constitution is based on the Bible simply because the founding fathers had free will. However, free will is not solely a religious concept. Additionally, Con admits that the founding fathers rejected the idea of a "religious ideology dictatorship" and instead used concepts of free will. As previously stated, free will is not based on religion. Rather, the founding fathers were members of a revolutionary concept for their time known as Enlightenment under which, many ideas that shaped the US constitution included liberty, toleration. separation of church and state, and the idea of a constitutional based government. Therefore Con is incorrect in claiming that free will alone proves that the constitution is based on the bible.

Second statement: Con's strongest evidence comes from sources that are neither factual nor related to the US Constitution. Numerous articles found online claim that the US Constitution is based on or influenced by the Bible. However, when examined factually, there is no direct correlation between the content of the Bible and the US Constitution. For example, consider the 8th Amendment.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/eighth_amendment

This contradicts the Bible's teachings, which involve heinous and undeniably cruel methods of punishment.

"If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both must be burned in the fire so no wickedness can be among you" Leviticus 20;14
The Different Types Of Punishments That Were Used In The Bible - Free Essay Example - 1318 Words | PapersOwl.com

The First Amendment guarantees freedom of religion, allowing individuals to believe in or reject any belief system. However, the Bible contradicts this notion, warning that rejecting God is a sin and disobedience to His commands has severe consequences.

“If you will not obey my commands, you will be punished. 15 If you refuse to obey my laws and commands and break the covenant I have made with you, 16 I will punish you. I will bring disaster on you—incurable diseases and fevers that will make you blind and cause your life to waste away. You will plant your crops, but it will do you no good, because your enemies will conquer you and eat what you have grown. 17 I will turn against you, so that you will be defeated, and those who hate you will rule over you; you will be so terrified that you will run when no one is chasing you." Leviticus 26:14-46 GNT - Punishment for Disobedience - The LORD - Bible Gateway

The distinction between the Bible and the US Constitution is evident. The Constitution promotes tolerance and freedom, while the Bible emphasizes obedience and punishment for noncompliance. Unlike the Bible, which may justify severe torture and cruelty, the Constitution explicitly prohibits such treatment. The Bible promotes the same religious dictatorship ideology that Con admitted the founding fathers rejected. How, then, can it be claimed with certainty that the very literature Con says the founding fathers rejected is the same influence upon which the Constitution was founded? This is a clear contradiction on Con's part.

Final statement and closing argument: The argument that the Constitution is based on or influenced by the Bible is not only founded on weak and false evidence, but the sources from both the Bible and the Constitution clearly demonstrate through their respective texts that neither one influenced the other. In fact, they are vastly different from each other. The Bible promotes the worship of an authoritarian God who views all humans under its care as mere servants who must comply and obey, or risk suffering punishment for their disobedience. The Constitution not only omits any mention of God and rejects all punishments promoted by the Bible, but also supports free thinking and derives its power from the consent of the governed, not from a god or divine right. The separation of the Bible and the Constitution was always intended by the Founding Fathers, regardless of their personal beliefs. Therefore, the Constitution is not, nor shall it ever be, based on or influenced by the Bible.

Sir.Lancelot

05.10.2023 11:45PM

Con

My source is absolutely reliable.

The American Heritage Education Foundation is, “a non-profit, non-partisan educational foundation (501.c.3) dedicated to the understanding and teaching of America’s factual and philosophical heritage to promote constructive citizenship and Freedom, Unity, Progress, and Responsibility among our students and citizens.”

Now while the concept of Free Will exists independently of Christian beliefs. The separation of Church & State, as conceptualized by the Founding Fathers is the version of Free Will that IS Biblically-Inspired.

The idea that the Bible advocates for an authoritarian god is Pro’s own interpretation and the Puritans’.

The Second Amendment for instance preaches The Right To Bear Arms. The right to self-defense is recognized as universal and is directly based on the verse in Luke 11:21.

“Luke 11:21

21 “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe.“”

As stated before, the Constitution doesn’t need to be 100% biblically-accurate to prove my point. Based on only means influenced by, and much of the Constitution falls to a matter of interpretation.

This is why christians who are more literal may reject the idea of ‘based on,’ because they assume the Constitution needs to represent the Bible without diverting from the words of scripture.

Americandebater24

05.07.2023 07:06PM

sorry for the initial forfeit guys that was not intentional.

Intelligence_06

04.29.2023 11:40AM

Is anything directly based on the Bible that still survives till today?

Is anything not indirectly based on the Bible in the western portion of the civilization?

I would say that I don't know any instance that would say no to either, and I am 99% confident that the consititution is one of the ordinary objects subjecting to "yes" to both.

Savant

04.29.2023 02:58AM

Misread as "The constitution is not as based as the bible."

Savant

05.13.2023 03:53PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Con wins this debate by framing upfront what it means for something to be based off of something else. Pro never challenges this, and it negates a lot of their arguments about the distinctions between the Bible and the Constitution. It's clear that the Bible was an influence on the Constitution, though it was certainly not the only influence. No conduct since both sides skipped rounds.