Instigator / Pro

Hs400

1509

rating

debates

25.0%

won

Topic

#4406

Michael Jackson was innocent

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 2 votes and with 5 points ahead, the winner is...

Hs400

Tags

Michael Jackson

Parameters

Publication date: 04.18.2023 01:32PM
Last updated date: 04.27.2023 06:57PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 4
Time for argument: One week
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

Best.Korea

1250

rating

394

debates

39.59%

won

Description

No information

Round 1

Hs400

04.19.2023 02:15PM

Pro

Thank you for accepting my debate. I want you to know by accepting this debate you have to hold yourself to no bias. You cannot be biased because you do not like MJ or his music. I will not be biased in my statements either. Let me rephrase he said she said will not be good enough evidence. Let me also rephrase that you must, as con, you must defend and provide enough evidence to support the accusations in 1993, and the allegations made by James Safechuck and Wade Robson.

Let me first state Michael Jackson acquitted of all charges made public in court. On may argue that he paid off the child and his family, but you must realize this is a civil case. This civil case was placed before the criminal case. The criminal case would have ruined Michael Jackson and possibly incarcerated him. The reason one must be careful in a situation like this, is that the prosecution will most likely lose to the defense in the civil case, but the defense has now weakened itself as the prosecution can be prepared in the criminal case and be able to tear down the defense quite easily. Evidence can be forged, dates written, witnesses pulled out of nowhere, and events created out of thin air. The timeline will change to completely nullify the defense's position, and so it can fit the prosecution. So, the fact that Michael Jackson paid off his accusers does not incriminate him, as this is a smart decision to make when a civil case is pushed before a criminal case.

PARALLEL PROCEEDINGS – CIVIL AND CRIMINAL - Chambers an…

chambers.com/articles/parallel-proceedings-civil-and-criminal

If the commencement and / or continuation of civil proceedings could cause a real risk of serious prejudice to criminal proceedings that have begun, or are likely to be brought then the party against whom the civil proceedings are being brought can apply for a stay on them.

May 1992: Michael Jackson meets 12-year-old Jordan Chandler
Early 1993: Chandler and his family are invited to sleep at Neverland Ranch

March 28, 1993: Jackson and Chandler reportedly share a bed for the first time.

May 25, 1993: The National Enquirer publishes a story about Jackson’s relationship with Chandler and his family

May-August 1993: Evan Chandler allegedly grows suspicious of Jackson.

I stop here to point out something. The first person to become suspicious of Jackson is Evan Chandler. The father of Jordan Chandler, who is Michael Jackson's first accuser.

Welp it gets worse, Evan Chandler the man who accused Michael …

https://www.reddit.com/r/MichaelJackson/comments/...

Please read this. The man Evan Chandler is not a trustable person. He is the reason Jordan Chandler would make accusations against Michael in 1993. I cannoot read this because I am at school and the site is blocked. But I will end my first argument here, the first accuser of Michael Jackson was convinced by his father to do such things, and had emancipated himself from his own family, and refuses to come out publicly.

And lastly, con, please watch this video. The points here I will be making and supporting as well.

Square One: Michael Jackson | AVAILABLE ON PRIME …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxNDb2PVcoM

Best.Korea

04.19.2023 03:19PM

Con

I of course believe in Jackson's innocence.

Michael Jackson was a Christian who promoted the word of Jesus. Even if he was guilty of breaking some laws regarding homosexuality, God would punish him, but would also forgive him after punishment due to Jackson being a believer. I believe there is only one sin in the Bible that wont be forgiven. Homosexuality can be forgiven, I believe, after punishment.

Now, lets move on to the case against him, to see how you respond to it.

The topic: The case against Michael Jackson

1) Jordan told the police that Michael had sexually abused him

"In July, Jordan told a psychiatrist and police that Jackson had sexually abused him, triggering an investigation."

We understand that Michael payed some money to the family of the boy. Why would an innocent man do that? The father of the boy later committed suicide, as if he felt guilty that he couldnt get justice for his son.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_child_sexual_abuse_accusations_against_Michael_Jackson

2) Michael's strange behavior around children

The entire case is built on Michael's strange behavior. Michael's behavior is different from behavior of other people. One could even say abnormal.

2-1) Michael makes kids wear make up

https://youtu.be/F1QiUCIOxw8

Why would Michael give make up to kids and want them to look pretty?

2-2) Michael says that he thinks its okay for an adult man to share his bed with children

https://youtube.com/shorts/S5rYJ1FHNp0?feature=share

"Of course", says Michael about sharing the bed with children, as if he said something that is common knowledge.

2-3) Michael almost drops his baby from hotel balcony, risking baby's life, leading to suspicion that he doesnt really care about children

https://youtu.be/9ElddgJCgyg

"Probably the stupidest thing he has ever done" - said one comment.

Please refute this case, so that we can move on.

Round 2

Hs400

04.19.2023 04:04PM

Pro

Thank you con for your response.

My reaction to your first point, the point that Michael paid off the family and the boy. Let con read my argument. He would find the answer to his question. The point that Jordans father blew his own brains out from guilt is absurd. The father merely wished to make money off of this case, as you would find if you looked into the sources I provided about the father and how he convinced Jordan to make a case on Michael. Let the audiotape especially ease your concerns about the father. Let it also be known that Evan Chandler enters his son's life once his son gets a close connection to Mr. Jackson.

Michael strange behavior on children. Let it be known I think Michael was weird around children. This is a fact. But this does not make him a pedophile or child abuser. I do not wish to excuse such strange actions, but Michael grew up a child star, the star being beaten out of him by his seemingly unloving father. Michael has made many indications that he never got to live a childhood out. This is the reason Michael loves children so much, he is purely innocent. He wants to be a child, and I believe he was a child deep in his heart. He wanted to help any child he could. He opened Neverland to the public so many children could live out their dreams there, as well as he could. He also wanted to build a children's hospital with the funds to be received from his "This is It" tour. Sadly, Michael died before this dream could be realized. He also wanted children of his own, and when he did have them, he gave them the best childhood he could offer. Simply put, Michael was a child, who wanted to be a loving father. His view was messed up by his past, and I do not believe he was a creep.

I sadly cannot look into the makeup thing as Youtube is blocked for me.

Now, let us look into the sharing of the bed with children. Michael Jackson shared his home and his bedroom with many children. He has said multiple times he slept on the floor, but the kids wanted him on the bed. He would sleep on the floor in a sleeping bag while the children got his bed. He believes it is a beautiful thing to open your bed to anyone, or to share it. This does not mean sleep together, but to offer comfortability to children or anyone else. He was so pure that he believed he could stay int he same bed, he says that if you are going to bee a creep about it then don't. I feel so sad when I see things like this, because I know how he means, and I know how people will portray this as he is being a pedophile or a creep.

Quick fact: There was no child pornography found in Michael Jackson's possessions or estate. let it also be known multiple FBI departments investigated Mr. Jackson and found nothing.

I will agree with the comment on Michael Jackson's handling over his own child over a balcony. Michael was under drugs a lot by this time, as well as under emotional stress and possibly suffering from some sort of mental illness. It was a stupid decision but has nothing to do with this argument . I believe we both know MJ is innocent and it is sad how people portray this King of Pop. He was a music legend and the sort of person we will never get again. I hope someone will be as charitable and as good a person as he is, I pray to god I could be like he was.

(VOTE PRO OR VOTE TIE)

Best.Korea

04.19.2023 04:31PM

Con

Let us go throught some questions before we finish this.

Why did Jordan agree to make such accusation against Michael, if Michael treated him so nicely?

Usually, if someone treats me nicely, I dont seek to ruin his life.

What was the thought that made Jordan think "I should ruin this man's life"?

Jordan was not kid. He was 13 at the time and knew the consequences.

How come Jordan didnt publicly apologize for this after? Or come out with truth?

Is Jordan the bad guy here?

Are all the weird things about Michael a coincidence?

Could it be that Michael brought these accusations onto himself by his strange behavior?

Could it be that Michael, by merely justifying adults sharing bed with children, justifies child abusers and makes them harder to detect?

Could it be that Jordan felt his boundaries were being violated by Michael?

Would you suspect an adult who says that its okay for adults to share bed with children?

Would you let your children have sleepover at Michael?

Would you let your children have sleepover at some adult man who seems nice?

Do you find it strange that an adult has desire to have sleepovers with children?

Doesnt Michael being abused as a kid makes him more likely to be abuser himself?

Answer these questions, so that we can go to conclusions.

Round 3

Hs400

04.19.2023 07:51PM

Pro

If you want to know why Jordan Chandler made such accusations, it pleases me to inform you I have left a video link in my first argument that will explain everything. The documentary shows Jordan Chandler was put under a drug by his father that was supposedly a "truth serum" but has found out to be quite the opposite. It makes the person more susceptible to lies. Jordan Chandler is said to have drunkenly admitted to a friend that Michael Jackson never touched him, and Jordan Chandler refuses to be in the public eye or associate himself with anything related to the Michael Jackson case. He refused to go onto the 2016 documentary "Leaving Neverland".

No, I do not believe Jordan is the bad guy here, his father was. And so is the media.

I believe it is true that the things seem so coincidental, but I believe it is all truly a coincidence. I believe these allegations were brought on by Michael's weird relationships and habits with kids and made him far more susceptible to the allegations. He does not justify child abusers, as he publicly shames them, and it does not make child abusers hard to detect, as if this were the case, he would not seem to be a child abuser. Anyone who shares their bed with children will always be viewed that sort of way, even if they are a creep or not.

I do not know if Jordan's boundaries were being violated by Michael, as I do not know any of his "boundaries", you have to realize him and Michael were close friends, and not in any sort of sexual relationship.

Quick note: Michael Jackson was very close friends with Macaulay Culkin, and Culkin has not come out accusing Michael of anything, and I believe has even said Michael never did anything to him. Also, Jordan Chandler originally stated Michael Jackson never touched him, then mysteriously changes his claim. This is the same with Wade Robson, as Wade Robson (pre-death of MJ and shortly after his passing), said Michael did nothing to him when asked or questioned.

I would suspect an adult who shared a bed with my child, and would never let my child near them again, even for a sleepover. I have stated I view these actions by MJ as very weird, but I know why he perceived it differently, and I do not believe he meant any harm.

Quick counter: Since you and I can agree it is weird to let a grown man have a sleepover with your child, why then did Jordan Chandlers mother push her child onto Jackson?
I believe people who are abused as children will likely go two different paths:

The Abuser and The Caretaker

I myself had the opportunity to grow up as a child stripped from me by my abusive mother, and I find myself to be very childlike in nature, and have a deep protective caring for children. I believe Michael is the same.

Best.Korea

04.19.2023 08:47PM

Con

Well, I believe the questions are answered.

It is obvious that Michael was innocent. He was a pure soul. It is sad that his actions were seen as questionable. People are too quick to judge and assume. I would say that labeling people as abusers before we have evidence of abuse is a terrible idea. I could even say that people who wanted to label Michael as abuser, those people did a lot of harm. First, they harmed Michael and his reputation. Second, they harmed Jordan who probably had his life made difficult from all the things and questions he went through because of people's overreaction.

Was Michael's behavior strange? Sure. Do I care about it as much as those people did? Not really.

If you have anything more to add, do so. Then we can conclude this discussion.

Round 4

Hs400

04.20.2023 01:12PM

Pro

I have nothing left to add, I wish everyone would watch MJ Square One, as it would clear a lot of stuff up. Thank you for this "debate".

Best.Korea

04.20.2023 02:44PM

Con

The end.

PREZ-HILTON

04.27.2023 06:57PM

-->

@Best.Korea

okay I will give him some time to respond

Best.Korea

04.27.2023 05:35PM

-->

@PREZ-HILTON

Okay, I will debate it assuming Hs400 wont.

PREZ-HILTON

04.27.2023 04:49PM

-->

@Best.Korea

Anything could bee spun into anything. Thee question is what explanation is more plausible for things like that given the full context.

Best.Korea

04.27.2023 04:46PM

-->

@PREZ-HILTON

If it wasnt for "Jew me, sue me" I would say sure. But that line I feel could be spinned so much...

Plus, "they dont care about us" could be spinned into who's "they"? Yikes.

PREZ-HILTON

04.27.2023 03:19PM

-->

@Best.Korea

@Hs400

I want to debate that the song "they don't care about us" is antisemitic. Would either of you be interested?

Hs400

04.18.2023 07:37PM

I believe Michael Jackson is purely and thoroughly innocent, I think he had the mind of a child, while also wanting to be a caring father.

Mall

04.18.2023 02:49PM

With these topics "you wanna be startin' something".

Best.Korea

04.18.2023 01:45PM

The guy was a kid in adult's body. And sleepover isnt exactly a crime.

Hs400

04.18.2023 01:39PM

The debate is not about the weird habits of Michael Jackson. The debate is about if he is guilty of the sexual abuse of children. I love MJ as a person and his music and it is sad what the media did and still does to him. I will admit, he had a weird mindset when it came to children. It is not ok for a grown man to sleep in the same bed as a child, this is correct, but he is not a pedophile, just weird when it comes to stuff like that.

Barney

04.23.2023 07:00AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Concession... Not that it matters, given how the debate was going.

Savant

04.20.2023 02:53PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Concession