Instigator / Pro
tigerlord's avatar
9
tigerlord
1500
rating
3
debates
33.33%
won
Topic
#4394

Islam Vs Anything1

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
3
9
Better sources
4
6
Better legibility
2
3
Better conduct
0
3

After 3 votes and with 12 points ahead, the winner is...

Slainte
Tags
Religion
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Two weeks
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
Six months
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
Slainte's avatar
21
Slainte
1511
rating
25
debates
68.0%
won
Description

Islam Vs Anything
Anyone can be my opponent who is from any religion or atheist nothing else, like some random person who just oppose Islam.
Rules:
1 Evidence from anywhere but must be credible.
2 Use philosophy, science or meta physics as far it's logical and make sense.
3 No insult to Islam, and our beliefs.
4 No forfeit (if then automatic defeat)
5 Spelling and grammar should not affect result or voting and I should have relaxation for that as English is not my first language.
6 First round for deciding about what we are going to debate about as follows:
Your belief,
Topic
Resolution
Your stance
Etc
7 Burden of proof is shared.
8 Anyone can accept defeat in the middle of debate.
9 No trolling
10 No vote Bomb
Thanks, and looking forward for good debates (in sha Allah)

Round 1
tigerlord's avatar
tigerlord
Pro
#1

Islam issuperior to any other philosophy for operating one's life

Note: As weboth have come up with resolution and other terms in comment sectionso I present my case right away

The Meaning ofIslam
Islam is an Arabic word that denotessubmission, surrender, and obedience. As a religion, Islam stands forcomplete submission and obedience to Allah – that is why it iscalled Islam. The other literal meaning of the word “Islam” is"peace." This signifies that one can achieve real peace ofbody and of mind only through submission and obedience to Allah. Sucha life of obedience brings peace of the heart and establishes realpeace in society at large.
Those who believe and whose hearts find rest in theremembrance of Allah-indeed it is in the remembrance of Allah alonethat the heart of man finds rest-those who believe and actrighteously, joy is for them, and a blissful home to return to. (13:28-29)

Superior
higher in rank, status, or quality.(Oxford)
philosophy
1 the study of the fundamental natureof knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered asan academic discipline
2 a theory or attitude that acts as aguiding principle for behavior.
(Oxford)
Operate
(of a person) to control thefunctioning of (a machine, process, or system).
Life
Life is defined as any system capableof performing functions such as eating, metabolizing, excreting,breathing, moving, growing, reproducing, and responding to externalstimuli.
Encyclopedia Britannica
Points to be noted:


  1. In this debate, I have to show Islam is higher in rank status and quality from other philosophies for operating one’s life.
  2. Fundamental nature of Islam and its implications in life.
  3. Islamic Philosophy is the best guiding principle for behavior.
  4. As my opponent has chosen the resolution himself in which he mentioned implication or operation of one’s life under Islamic system. So I will decide to discuss operation of individual’s life under Islamic system. In other word, daily life of individual under Islamic system.
  5. I have to show different aspect and functions or operations of someone’s life under Islamic system or Islamic teachings to be the best of all systems or ways out there. While my opponent has to show are the best other than Islam, this is because in rules I have mentioned that burden of proof is shared.
  6. My opponent has to show how other philosophies are superior to Islam, while I have to show the other way around.
  7. All resources must be read and responded. (all links)

As we can see from above definitionabout life. There are few aspects mentioned, but we can assume manyother aspects of life which have not been mentioned in definition oflife e.g., sleeping, bathing, clothing, sitting and so on.
I will discuss many aspects of lifelike above to show the superiority of Islam over other systems.
And Islam being perfect aboutdiscussing all those aspect in necessary and suitable amount.
While any other system fail to do so,if there is any system which do as Islam do then my opponent has tomention it as alternative to win the debate. I have to remind myopponent again that as burden of proof is shared. And I have asked aperson should come with some religious or no religious background tohave a stance against Islam with alternative system not some randomguy who oppose Islam.
So I will assume my opponent would notgo only refuting and rebutting my arguments but must present betteralternative against Islam to win the debate.
As the resolution says Islam issuperior to other philosophies, which I have to prove it here whilemy opponent has to prove it is not by comparing it with others andproving it to be.

Islam as a system for someone’s life.
For my first argument, I will take lifeof a man or a woman of any age for a whole standard 24-hour day.
Islamic teaching for 24-hour day.
Awaking:
For Muslim there is set time to awakeevery day which is early in the morning, which is before fajirprayer.
Benefits


Brushing


  1. Tabrani narrates a Hasan narration on the authority of Hadrat Ali (Radi Allahu Anhu), citing that Rasoolullah (SallAllahu Alayhi wa Sallam) said, "If I did not feel that it would be difficult upon my Ummah, I would have commanded them to perform miswak(brushing) with every Wudu (ablution)." [Mu'jam al-Awsat, Vol. 1, Page 341, Hadith 1238]
  2. Prophet Muhammad said: "Make a regular practice of the miswak, for verily, it is healthy for the mouth and it is a pleasure for the Creator
Complete list of references aboutbrushing

Cleanliness
It is narrated in Mishkaat Shareef fromHadrat Sayyidah A’isha (Radi Allahu Anha) that there are 10 actionswhich are of Fitrat (inherent qualities) :
1. To trim the moustache
2. To lengthen the beard
3. To perform Miswak
4. To put water into the nostrils(cleansing the nostrils)

5. To clip the nails
6. To wash between the toes
7. To remove the hair from under thearms
8. To remove the pubic hair
9. To perform Istinja (to clean oneselfafter answering the call of nature)
10. To rinse the mouth. [Sahih Muslim,Page 154, Hadith 261]
Bathing
Maymunah reported: I brought water tothe Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, for hisritual bath from major impurity. He washed his hands two or threetimes, then he put his right hand in the vessel and poured it overhis private parts, washing it with his left hand. Then, he struck theground with his left hand and rubbed it hard, and performed ablutionas for prayer. Then, he poured three handfuls of water over his headand washed the rest of his body. Then, he moved away from that placeand washed his feet. I brought him a towel but he turned it away.
Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 317
Complete list of references aboutbathing:

Drinking
#1- Sit Down When Drinking WaterWater should be consumed in a sitting position.Hadith Reference: Sahih Muslim: 2024(a)#2- Don’t Drink Directly From a Water PitcherPour some water into a cup or small dish, and drink from that.Hadith Reference: Sahih Bukhari: 5627#3- Hold the Cup In Your Right HandNever hold the cup or glass you’re drinking water from in your left hand.Hadith Reference: Sahih Muslim: 2020(a)#4- Don’t Drink From a Silver Or Gold VesselIt is prohibited to drink water from a container that is made of silver or gold material.Hadith Reference: Sahih Bukhari: 5633#5- Say “Bismillah” Before Drinking WaterBefore taking the first sip of water, you should always say “Bismillah,” according to the Sunnah.Hadith Reference: Tirmidhi: 1885#6- Don’t Breathe Into the VesselSimilarly, it is the Prophet Muhammad (SAW)’s way never to breathe into the vessel you’re drinking water from.Hadith Reference: Sahih Bukhari: 5630#7- Drink Water In 3 Sips (Or More)The Holy Prophet (PBUH) always drank water in (at least) three sips and also advised others to do the same.Hadith Reference: Tirmidhi: 1885 #8- Say “Alhamdulillah” After Drinking WaterAlways praise Allah (SWT) after drinking water by saying “Alhamdulillah.”Hadith Reference: Tirmidhi: 1885 #9- Drink Last When ServingThe person serving water to others should be the last to drink it.Hadith Reference: Ibn Majah: 3434

Eating
ProphetMuhammad (PBUH) said, "Nothing isworse than a person who fills his stomach.It should be enough for the son of Adam to have a few bites tosatisfy his hunger. If he wishes more, it should be: One-third forhis food, one-third for his liquids and one-third for his breath."

Clothing
Volume 7, Book 72, Number 710:
Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri
Allah's Apostle forbade two ways of wearing clothes andtwo kinds of dealings. (A) He forbade the dealings of the Mulamasaand the Munabadha. In the Mulamasa transaction the buyer just touchesthe garment he wants to buy at night or by daytime, and that touchwould oblige him to buy it. In the Munabadha, one man throws hisgarment at another and the latter throws his at the former and thebarter is complete and valid without examining the two objects orbeing satisfied with them (B) The two ways of wearing clothes wereIshtimal-as-Samma, i e., to cover one's shoulder with one's garmentand leave the other bare: and the other way was to wrap oneself witha garment while one was sitting In such a way that nothing of thatgarment would cover one's private part
More detail in above link aboutclothing.
Excreting

  1. Say a prayer when entering, to ward off jinn and demons
  2. Remove your rings
  3. Do not face nor turn your back to the direction of the Ka'aba
  4. Do not hold nor touch the penis with your right hand
  5. Do not stand while urinating
  6. Do not uncover your private parts until after squatting
  7. Do not soil yourself with urine, this is a major sin
  8. Do not speak while in the toilet
  9. Clean yourself with an odd number of stones
  10. Do not clean yourself with less than three stones
  11. Do not use dung or bones
  12. Do not use your right hand
  13. Wash yourself, once you're done
  14. No need for Wudu' After Relieving Yourself in the River
  15. Say a prayer when exiting the toilet

Walking
How our amazing Nabi ﷺ walked:
1) Hewould raise his feet and walk. He would not drag them along theground.
2) He would place his feet whilst slightly leaning forward.
3) His natural walk was fast and firm but at the same time it was veryhumble.
4) He would not walk proudly with his chest puffed out and would not tryto show his authority.
5) His motion while walking was that of a person descending from ahigher ground to a lower ground.
6) He would not walk very fast as if running but he would cover longdistances in a short time. This was a special favour of Allah Ta’alaupon our beloved Nabi ﷺ.
7) Our beloved Nabi ﷺ neverwore only one shoe. He said shaytan wears one shoe so he would opposeit.

Talking
1-We should speak only if we our speech will be good and beneficial.
2-Weshould be truthful when we speak and refrain from lying.
3-We should refrain from using bad language or cursing at all times.
4-We should refrain from Gheebah orbackbiting.
5-We should refrain from swearing by the name of Allah unless it isabsolutely necessary.
6-We should speak about matters within our knowledge and expertise.
7-We should not speak about matters that we hear about, withoutinvestigation.
8-We should make sure that our goals from our speech should be to findthe truth.
9-We should refrain from involvement in senseless arguments in whichthe sole purpose is to put down others and to show superiority.
10-We should make our speech simple, clear, and avoid difficult words.
11-We should make sure our speech is clear, quiet, and audible enoughfor others to hear and understand.
12-We should make sure our speech is serious and to joke around verysparingly.
13-We should avoid interrupting others while they speak and we shouldlisten to what they have to say until they finish their statement.
14-We should talk and debate in a polite manner, avoiding words thathurt, put down, or humiliate others.
15-We should not reject what a person says just because their speech ismixed with right and wrong information.
16-Weshould not give our selves complements nor should we praise or patourselves on the backs in front of others.


Greeting

Working
One must pay his employee before hissweat is dried. (hadith)

Behaving with family throughoutthe day
Prophet Muhammad (saw) said berespectful with your elder (parents and any elder) and be kind toyounger.
Never say uff to your father.
Heaven is under the feet of yourmother(be obedient and server her the most to earn heaven).
This topic is very long, I can not dealcompletely here.


Behaving with neighbor
“Serve Allah,and join not any partners with Him; and do good – to parents,kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbors who are near, neighborswho are strangers, the Companion by your side, the wayfarer [youmeet], and what your right hands possess: For Allah loveth not thearrogant, the vainglorious.”
(Quran 4:36)

Behaving with society

Abiding the rules of Allah

Helping the poor
Earning

Honesty
The Prophet (peace be upon him)said, “Honesty certainly leads to goodness, and goodness leadsto paradise. Truly, a man keeps speaking the truth until he isinscribed as being true through and through. And lying leads to goingwrong, and going wrong leads to hell. Truly, a man lies and liesuntil he is inscribed as being a liar through and through” (Bukhariand Muslim).
 “Honesty descended from theHeavens and settled in the roots of the hearts of men (faithfulbelievers), and then the Quran was revealed and the people read theQuran, (and learnt it from it) and also learnt from the sayings andtraditions.  Both the Qur’an and the traditionsstrengthened their honesty.” (Saheeh Al-Bukhari)
Discipline
Islam has given full guidance for 24/7for any person. Timing for five prayers in a day are strict and there is sleeping and eating guidance as well. One who follow thatstrict guiding schedule become very disciplined person.
Love and care for others
Islam teaches loveand care for others. From family to friends and neighbour a personmust care for whole humanity and want same what he want for himself.The most important is heaven, for what I am doing this debate as anexample.
Love and care for animals

Providing the family
Sleeping
Sleep manners
1 Early bedtime and early wake up time.
2 Perform ablution (wudoo) before going to bed and supplicate.
3 Dusting and cleaning the bed before sleeping.
4 Sleep position.
5 Turning off light before sleep.
6 Yawning.
Full details of above mentioned highlights and more is in below link.

Opening of a day and closing of a day and also night has been dealtstill there are many operations which are not mentioned and can bedealt in next round.
Benefits

Summary
I have mentioned alot of aspect which are common among all human. There are many whichI have not discussed yet. If I do discuss them then the argument isgoing to be very lengthy, as you can see I have to limit myself touse links to give maximum detail of every teaching. But if I includeinformation from those links in debate it would not fit in 30000words limit.
I emphasize myopponent to read all the resources given in my argument to discussabout them.

I invite my opponent to present anyother philosophy which has given teaching and guidance and moralvalues like Islam has given for every aspect of life.

The fact Islam is fastest growingreligion in world proves these teaching compels people toward them.That is why people are getting into Islam when they become aware ofits teachings.
Conclusion
Islam is completecode of conduct and way of life.
Islam provideteaching and guidance for every aspect of life.
There is manyscientific and social benefits in all those teachings.
Islam not onlyprovide teaching and guidance for all aspect of life but also thoseteaching and guidance are best in the interest of humanity.
There is no harm forhumanity in those teachings.


Islam is perfectreligion

  1. Islam has given us family system.
  2. Islam has given us social system.
  3. Islam has given us governmental system.
  4. Islam gives judicial system.
  5. Islam has given us educational system.
  6. Islam has given us military or bureaucratic system.
  7. Islam has given us police system.
  8. Islam has given us teaching and guidance in each aspect of life.
  9. Islam has given us punishment system.

Final thoughts
I do not know how myopponent is going to respond to my argument.
When he will respondI will see, how the up coming argument is going to be or what will behis rebuttal for my first round’s argument.
Rest of the debateis going to depend on the response of my opponent.
I am looking forwardfor the response of my opponent and hope this debate is going to be agood one.
Thank you very much

Slainte's avatar
Slainte
Con
#2
Pro has written an exceptionally informative opening argument about Islam.   Unfortunately it appears as if Pro is putting the burden on my to show why those features of Islam are NOT superior, when infact they are making the declaration that they are superior.  I do not want to nit pick about certain concepts as I feel it is not the overall intention of the debate.

My position is that no one religion, or philosophy is "the" best.   There are many different methods, and philosophies that add value to life and community.  I am going to argue that Buddhism as a religion/philosophy, has some key differences to Islam, and may be superior in some regards.  If I can demonstrate that there is an argument of Buddhism, or a feature of Buddihsm, may be superior to Islam, I have meet my BoP.

Buddhism emphasizes self-improvement through meditation and mindfulness, rather than relying on an external deity or power. This focus on personal responsibility can be seen as empowering.

Meditation practices have been shown to have various mental health benefits, such as reduced anxiety, improved focus, and increased emotional resilience. This evidence-based approach makes Buddhism and meditation appealing to many people.

Buddhism teaches the principles of nonviolence and compassion for all living beings, which can be seen as a more peaceful and harmonious way to live.

The Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path taught in Buddhism are universal values that can be applied to daily life, regardless of one's religious or cultural background.  

Buddhism encourages open-mindedness and questioning, which allows for a more flexible and adaptable approach to life. 

Here are some differentiations,

Buddhism does not have a central concept of God or a creator deity. It is primarily a non-theistic religion, focusing on personal spiritual development and the nature of existence while Islam is a monotheistic religion, believing in one God, Allah, who is omnipotent, omniscient, and merciful.  Question:   Which view is better?  

Buddhism teaches the concept of rebirth, where individuals are continuously reborn into different realms of existence based on their karma. The ultimate goal is to achieve Nirvana, which is liberation from the cycle of birth and death, however Islam teaches that humans have one life on earth, followed by a Day of Judgment, where each person's deeds will be evaluated. Based on their actions, they will be rewarded with eternal life in paradise or punishment in hell.  It appears as if Muslims are encouraged to act in a particular way based on fear.  The fear of hell.    You get one crack at it.   Question:  Which view is better?

Meditation and mindfulness are central practices in Buddhism such as the Five Precepts, which are ethical guidelines for living a moral life. There are optional rituals like chanting or making offerings at temples. Buddhism puts the responsibility on the individual, and their connection with karma.  Islam has five pillars that are faith based, not understanding based. Shahada (declaration of faith), Salat (prayer), Zakat (almsgiving), Sawm (fasting during Ramadan), and Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca). Buddhism allows for individual journey, where Islam is more instructive.    Question:   Which view is better?

buddhists believe that following the Noble Eightfold Path, which includes right understanding, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration, can lead to the cessation of suffering and ultimately, enlightenment.  For Islam, salvation is achieved by submitting to the will of Allah, following His commandments, and seeking forgiveness for one's sins.  A very different approach in life.  

Who is to say one view is better than the other?  I respect Pro's commitment to Islam.  I however feel that the Buddhism approach is superior.



Round 2
tigerlord's avatar
tigerlord
Pro
#3
Forfeited
Slainte's avatar
Slainte
Con
#4
Pro has set the rules that one forfeit is an automatic loss.    I point this out to the voters and extend. 
Round 3
tigerlord's avatar
tigerlord
Pro
#5

My forfeit in 2ndround was out of my control, I leave it on voter to choose rulenumber 4 or go for arguments. But here is proof
Responding to thearguments of my opponet.

My Opponent said:
“when infact theyare making the declaration that they are superior”
My Question:
Then why not acceptit?

My Opponent said:
“My position isthat no one religion, or philosophy is "the" best”
Rebuttal 1:
My opponent isdeclaring buddhism to be equal to Islam by saying none of them arebest. While he should have picked one which is best. (kind offorfeit)
My Opponent said:
“There are manydifferent methods, and philosophies that add value to life andcommunity”
Rebuttal 3:
So do Islam and itseems my opponent has accepted it as well.
My Opponent said:
“I am going toargue that Buddhism as a religion/philosophy, has some keydifferences to Islam, and may be superior in some regards”
Rebuttal 4:
we are notdiscussing the differences(unless considering them being supperior)between religions here, in fact we are discussing superiority.
which my opponent isnot sure of that is why saying “may be” superiorand not all in all but in some regards.
Rebuttal 5:
My opponent is notsure, the philosophy he is considering here is superior or not.
My opponent considerbuddhism to be superior in some regard but not as whole.
While I considerIslam to be superior as whole to all other philosophies.
My Opponent said:
If I can demonstratethat there is an argument of Buddhism, or a feature of Buddihsm, maybe superior to Islam, I have meet my BoP.

Rebuttal 6:
My opponent hassuggested the resolution himself not me. Which is “Islam issuperior to any other philosophy for operating one's life”
This resolutionsuggest that, someone has to talk about the whole life of a personnot some features.
We are talking aboutlife of a person and how it should be operated by some system.

For Reminder:
check thedefinitions from the last round.

Conclusionrelated to rebuttal 6:
From definitions wecan see, there is need to be a system which is philosophy whichfurther means fundamental study of nature of knowledge or reality orexistence to operate one’s life and must be superior to others.
So we cannot saythat only feature of some system or belief can suffice theresolution.
That is why I postedsuch a lengthy argument to cope as much as operations I can but itseems my opponent never bothered to read my arguments at all. Andthat is why never tried to refute even one and also never mentionedany flaws in those teaching for operating people life. What myopponent did was not to refute my argument instead he presented hisnew argument without comparing it with mine and assume that thephilosophy he presented is superior then what I presented withoutreading a bit from mine.

1 There is nocomparison between philosophies being which one is supprior.
2 No flaws mentionedin my philosophy.
3 My opponent failedto present a system which gives guidance for the operation ofsomeone’s life because my opponent only consider the feature of hisphilosophy to be able to fulfill the case.
4 For a system to besuperior for operating someone’s life need to be a system at least.While buddhism is not a system its just practice of a meditatingmonk.
5 we are talkingabout a system which operate someone’s life by giving “1 thestudy of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence,especially when considered as an academic discipline
2 a theory orattitude that acts as a guiding principle for behavior” and as Lifeis defined as any system capable of performing functions such aseating, metabolizing, excreting, breathing, moving, growing,reproducing, and responding to external stimuli etc.

While buddhism donot give us system to operate our life at all. Its life of a monk whospent lives in seclusion.
Buddhism whichpromote Seclusion, how can it give guidance for operation ofsomeone's life who lives a normal life?
My Opponent said:
“Buddhism emphasizes self-improvement through meditation and mindfulness,rather than relying on an external deity or power. This focus onpersonal responsibility can be seen as empowering”

Rebuttal 7:


  1. First of all above hyperlink do not work it gives error “page not found”.
  2. So my opponent lacks on resources and the credibility of his statement.
Con’s definition
What above definition says:
“Buddhism emphasizes onself-improvement”
Means a person has to have some degreeof betterment or in good condition already to improve.
This means it do not solve the problemsbut it only improve which is already in good condition.
Example: A Person who is suffering withdeadly disease wont get healed by meditation and mindfulness but hewould need medicine and medical checkup.(In Islam there is fieldTib-e-Nabvi, which deals with medical illness and some medical claimto cure any illness out there).
This debate is not about denial ofDeity or power this is about having a best system to operate one’slife. So its no where near the best alternative.

“This focus on personalresponsibility can be seen as empowering”
We are not here for discussing aboutpersonal responsibility and empowering.
Which are kind two aspects of life, butwe are here to discuss every aspect of life.


  1. Above definition of buddhism seems contrary to this one “a religion of eastern and central Asia growing out of the teaching of Siddhārtha Gautama that suffering is inherent in life and that one can be liberated from it by cultivating wisdom, virtue, and concentration” https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Buddhism
  2. Buddhism seems to focus on only one feature of life which is suffering.

My Opponent said:
"Meditation practices have been shown to have various mental health benefits,such as reduced anxiety, improved focus, and increased emotionalresilience. This evidence-based approach makes Buddhism andmeditation appealing to many people”

Rebuttal 8:


  1. First of all, Islam also focus on meditation, praying five times a day is compulsory for all Muslims which is perfect meditation. Fasting and reciting also meditation. And about this we are even one step ahead from buddhism. (we do meditation and do not do seclusion)

  2. So we have more meditation tools then buddhism and more scientific studies have been done on their effectiveness and result.
  3. With meditation we have complete system as guidance for every aspect of life. So first of all there should be a system to give guidance on every aspect, then we can analyze the system is best or not, or it has flaws. While my opponent has presented a faith which is not complete system for life yet only focus on one aspect of life which is meditation and promotes seclusion.
  4. My opponent said buddhism and meditation is appealing to many people but not all. It seems even it is not appealing to my opponent that is why he is mentioning about others. The the fact that is why my opponent is agnostic not Buddhist. Which should be the blatant evidence the person who is advocating buddhism is not appealing to himself, even kind of funny it is.
  5. Islam has plus point in mediation.
My Opponent said:
“Buddhism teaches the principles of nonviolence and compassion for all living beings, which can beseen as a more peaceful and harmonious way to live”
Rebuttal 8:


  1. Buddhism teaches it just like any other religion with exceptions, where they justify killing as well and have done it in history. Most recent case is in Burma. While sometimes that justification is totally wrong.

  2. A better version:
    Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul1 or for corruption [done] in the land2 - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one3 - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And Our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.— Saheeh International Quran 32:5

  3. Buddhist forbid killing of animals even for consumption. And call animals to be their ancestor. Claiming to be eating their ancestor if they do it.
    “Since all male creatures have at one time been our father, they should be regarded as our father. And since all female creatures have at one time been our mother, they should be regarded as our mother. . . . all living things throughout the six realms can be considered as our father and mother. So to catch and eat any living creatures is surely equivalent to killing our own parents and eating our own body?“
    this concept of not killing other animals is impractical. We know animals eat animals so to balance the nature. While if human stop consuming animals then the balance of life would be out of order. That is why different countries give license to hunt down certain animals whom strength has gone higher. eg., Deer
    So my opponent might have eaten ancestors. As he is advocating the buddhism.

  4. From
    “Buddhism teaches the principles of nonviolence and compassion for all living beings, which can be seen as a more peaceful and harmonious way to live”

    (From the above hyperlink nonviolence I got this)

    “Like most forms of tantra, the most basic practice of Shingon is identifying a particular tantric deity, usually one of the transcendent Buddhas or Bodhisattvas. (Note that the English word deity isn't quite right; the iconic beings of Shingon are not considered to be gods.
    Also
    According to legend, he had himself buried alive while in a state of deep meditation. Food offerings are left on his tomb to this day, in case he is not dead but still meditating.
    Totally against the definition of my opponent
    “Buddhism emphasizes self-improvement through meditation and mindfulness, rather than relying on an external deity or power. This focus on personal responsibility can be seen as empowering”

    They are not necessarily gods but they can be any external power. Although external influences.

My Opponent said:
“The Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path taught in Buddhism areuniversal values that can be applied to daily life, regardless ofone's religious or cultural background”

Rebuttal 9:
We can see from four noble truths andeight fold paths, they are not something which anybody is not awareof.
They talk about desires and lust andgreed and many other negative attributes which someone can have inlife and I am sure that all religion discourage it, so Islam as well.
Conclusion from above is that, itmotivates you to do not feel suffering but not to get rid of it.
Almost all of those traits have beenmentioned in my first argument, if my opponent has have read mydebate he would have known that Islamic perspective is more superiorand plus element is that, everything a Muslim do while being amongcommunity and not in seclusion.
We already know that Buddha and allBuddhist monk live the life of seclusion.
As far as Islam is concern it givesbetter solution for your spiral growth. Islam is also very rich inspiritual journey and way much more better then Buddhism because aperson can achieve ihsan or nirvana (Buddhist version) while beingsocial and do not need seclusion.
In fact a person must not be selfishwho is cultivate in seclusion being un aware of its surrounding andeven need help from others in the form of donations.
Islam need people to live a normal andhappy life and achieve spiritual satisfaction through love, care andhelp for others. That is why in Islam charity is obligatory oneligible people. And through charity you can achieve spiritualawakening.
For me to explain about spiritualawakening of Muslim, I would present this.
Islamic Version of spiritualawakening
As we discussed above that there arethree levels of faith that a person can attain being a Muslim. Thefirst level is Islam. A Muslim must be declared that there is no Godbut Allah and Muhammad (SAW) is the messenger of Allah (SWT). Bydeclaring this a person accepts the message of Allah Almighty that isrevealed to humanity through the last prophet Muhammad (SAW). Afteraccepting Islam it is obligatory on Muslim to observe all otherIslamic obligations like five daily prayers, Zakat, Fasting inRamadan, make a pilgrimage (Hajj) of the house of Allah if he/she iscapable of doing this physically and also financially. These are someobligatory things that a Muslim must follow after the proclamation ofIslam. The rules of Islam come more easily to those who have preparedtheir hearts with Iman.
Iman
Iman or faith is the first thing thatwe have to learn in our religion because it acts as our roots. Imanis basically to believe in Allah, His Angels, His Books, HisMessengers and all the scriptures which He sent down before. As AllahAlmighty said in Holy Quran: “O you who have believed, believein Allah and His Messenger, (in) the Book that He sent down upon HisMessenger, and the Scripture which He sent down before. And whoeverdisbelieves in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, and theLast Day has certainly gone far astray” (Quran, 4: 136)
So, a person reaching Iman believesthat not only Allah exists but He is capable of doing anything Hewants to do. A Mumen believes in everything Allah Almighty told inthe Holy Quran. The belief in the Last Day which is the Judgment Dayis an acknowledgment of accountability and estimation. It is anincentive for people to do good in this life in order to be rewardedin Paradise and a warning against doing badly in order to avoidpunishment in the Hellfire.
The Prophet (SAW) said that Iman is,“To believe in Allah, His Angels, His Books, to believe inmeeting Him, to believe in His Messengers, the Resurrection and thepredestination”(Al-Bukhari). We can say that Iman is aboutinwardly actions.
Ihsan
Ihsan is the highest status of religionIslam. Its definition that our beloved Prophet Muhammad (SAW)described is: “To worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you donot see Him, He sees you.”  The concept of Ihsan in Islamis also that a Muslim is a responsible person where he does things ina good manner. We can say that Ihsan means a Muhsen is surethat Allah is seeing him/her in everything he/she says or does in hislife. So, a Muhsen does his best to say and do only what pleasesAllah Almighty and conforms to His commands.
In Holy Quran, Allah Almighty says:“Indeed, Allah commands justice, good conduct (Ihsan), andgiving to relatives (and He) forbids immorality, bad conduct, andoppression. He admonishes you that perhaps you will be reminded” (Quran, 16: 90).
In short, by living according to theconcept of Ihsan and by applying it to all that a Muslim does, he/shewill be rewarded and drench with mercy and forgiveness from AllahAlmighty.
Detail
The Messenger of Allāh ﷺ said:
“There are over 70 branches of faith.The highest is to bear witness that ‘There is no god but Allāh andMuhammad is the Messenger of Allāh’ (lā ilāha illallāhuMuhammadur rasūlullāh). The lowest is the removal of harm from theroad. Modesty is also of faith.” 1
The ‘Seventy-Seven Branches of Faith’2 are a collection of Qur’anic verses and Prophetic narrationscompiled by Imām al-Bayhaqī (Allah be pleased with him) in 458 A.H.In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true faith(imān). These seventy-seven branches are some of the essentialattributes and characteristics that a true believer should have orstrive towards having.
Complete Iman in reality consists ofthree components:
Confirmation by heart of all theessentials of Iman
Confirmation by tongue of all theessentials of Iman
Confirmation by actions of all theessentials of Iman
Thus, the ”77 Branches of Faith”are divided into three categories:
Above link is veryimportant wanted to add content but run short of words.

My Opponent said:
“Buddhism encourages open-mindedness and questioning, which allows for a more flexibleand adaptable approach to life.”
Rebuttal 10:


  • First of all above link is not working (not found 404) error again my opponent lack on resources and their credibility.
  • We can see how adaptable and flexible Buddhist apporach is, which promotes social isolation and seclusion. And to not solve problems and tackle suffering but to accept them as a solution to be able to bear them.
  • Every thing is called desire and greed, which could be necessity of life. Like have intimate relation and children. While Buddhist monk never marry. In islam marrying and having children and living a social and friendly life is encourage so much. It is that, you are not allowed to live in seclusion and its forbidden in Islam.
My Opponent said:
“Buddhism does not have a centralconcept of God or a creator deity. It is primarily a non-theisticreligion, focusing on personal spiritual development and the natureof existence while Islam is a monotheistic religion, believing in oneGod, Allah, who is omnipotent, omniscient, and merciful. Question:   Which view is better?”

Rebuttal 11:


  • So this is the argument of my opponent?
  • Stating one religion to be atheistic and one to be theistic is enough?
  • Then making this a question is it going to let my opponent win?
  • What kind of above argument is?
  • Its just sharing a point of view without any evidence to be wrong.
  • I am not sure what my opponent is trying to do with that kind of argument.
  • This is just a statement and a question there is nothing in it to be called an argument.
  • My opponent has to prove how believing a deity is bad and how it can effect personal spiritual development. Also it has nothing to do with the operation of someone's life.
  • Spirit has not impact on someone’s operational life if an atheistic believe is concern.
  • My opponent has forgotten that non-theistic means atheistic, which is a believe, which do not believe in spirit. Its kind of contradictory.
Definitions from OxfordLanguages · Learnmore
spiritual
adjective
adjective: spiritual


  1. 1.
    relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
    "I'm responsible for his spiritual welfare"


  • (of a person) not concerned with material values or pursuits.

relating to religion or religiousbelief.
I do not know what my opponent wasthinking when stating that statmenet. Islam is major religon of worldand totally based on spiritual life.
Soul
إِذْ قَالَرَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَآئِكَةِ إِنِّى خَالِقٌبَشَراً مِّن طِينٍ * فَإِذَاسَوَّيْتُهُ وَنَفَخْتُ فِيهِ من رُّوحِىفَقَعُواْ لَهُ سَاجِدِينَ‏
When your Lord said to the angels;Surely I am going to create a mortal from dust: So when I have madehim complete and breathed into him of My spirit, then fall downmaking obeisance to him. (38:71-72)
I have already talked a lot aboutspiritual life in Islam. Islam provides individual and as well socialteaching to elevate spiritual life of a person. There is nothingspecial in Buddhism at all which can make it superior to islam. Justassertions which are just vague statement and provide us nothing atall.
My Opponent said:
“Buddhism teaches the concept ofrebirth, where individuals are continuously reborn into differentrealms of existence based on their karma. The ultimate goal is toachieve Nirvana, which is liberation from the cycle of birth anddeath, however Islam teaches that humans have one life on earth,followed by a Day of Judgment, where each person's deeds will beevaluated. Based on their actions, they will be rewarded with eternallife in paradise or punishment in hell.  It appears as ifMuslims are encouraged to act in a particular way based on fear. The fear of hell.    You get one crack at it.  Question:  Which view is better?”
Rebuttal 12:


  • This concept of rebirth based on karma cannot be proven, also Buddhist believe that person can be reborn as animal as well based on karma. So the life of animals are not being discuss here. Which is totally irrelevant from the debate.
  • Nirvana whichis liberation of cycle of brith and death is not relevant to debate because we are talking about operating of the life of someone’s not liberation from it.
  • Islamic point of is best, my opponent said people follow rules because of fear of hell. This is human nature people follow rules because of fear of punishment. Without fear of being punishment they wont follow rules and life will be chaotic and irregular.
  • Question should not be why Muslim follow Islamic rules but question should be are those rules good or not, while they are best. And we can argue about that, but my opponent has some other thoughts in mind, which I do not know, it seems just claiming to be atheistic will give him edge. I guess he has that kinds of thoughts?
  • There is no arguments at all from opponent, just few questions about Islamic believes.
  • It look like my opponent is not serious about debate and he do not rebut and present argument at all. Just few statements and questions. That is all out there.
My Oppnent said:
“Meditation and mindfulness arecentral practices in Buddhism such as the Five Precepts, which areethical guidelines for living a moral life. There are optionalrituals like chanting or making offerings at temples. Buddhism putsthe responsibility on the individual, and their connection withkarma.  Islam has five pillars that are faith based, notunderstanding based. Shahada (declaration of faith), Salat (prayer),Zakat (almsgiving), Sawm (fasting during Ramadan), and Hajj(pilgrimage to Mecca). Buddhism allows for individual journey, whereIslam is more instructive.    Question:   Whichview is better?

buddhists believe that following theNoble Eightfold Path, which includes right understanding, rightintention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, righteffort, right mindfulness, and right concentration, can lead tothe cessation of suffering and ultimately, enlightenment. For Islam, salvation is achieved by submitting to the will of Allah,following His commandments, and seeking forgiveness for one's sins. A very different approach in life.  

Who is to say one view is better thanthe other?  I respect Pro's commitment to Islam.  I howeverfeel that the Buddhism approach is superior”
Rebuttal 13:


  • So my opponent has given us solution for someone’s life to operate, which is meditation and mindfulness.
  • Next time if a person become has any problem he can go on a high mountain and start meditation and have mindfulness and his problem and issues will be solved. This is what my opponent is trying to say?
  • This is what my opponent's superior system with which a person has to operate his or her life?
  • Is it practical? Probably that is why buddhism is declining and will keep declining in future. While Islam is fastest growing religion in world.
  • Can we cease the suffering with above mentioned method? Can sick people be treated with that method? And can poor become rich with that? Can wars be avoided with that? If so then why Buddhist killing Muslims in Burma?
  • What my opponent mentioned about Islam, is there any problem with it?
  • Just stating something does not mean its not applicable and not superior and other is. My opponent has to prove it.
  • There is just little information about Buddhism and Islam from my opponent no arguments at all. Its like he left debate untouched.
Conclusion:


  • Buddhism promotes seclusion.
  • Buddhism promote selfishness as person only consider improving himself only. And this religion target only indiviuals not community as a whole as mentioned by my opponent already.
  • Buddhism is not spreading instead declining.
  • Buddhism is not practical as far as consuming animals is concerned. And buddhism consider animal to be ancestors that is why they avoid them killing not out of mercy. While animal consumation is necessary for the supply of food for humans. Otherwise  its total waste of food.
  • Buddhism is limited to specific areas and Islam is religion of whole world as it claim itself to be. And Islam is fastest growing religion in the world.
  • Buddhism only focus on suffering and trying to cease it through cultivation, which it surely fail to do because considering suffering as part of our life and going with it is not the solution for suffering or ceasing it. But a cure is needed.
  • I am afraid if a Buddhist monk get sickness he would need doctor as well. Islam promote on utilizing natural resources and formal ways of life but improve them and practice them in a manner which is beneficial for humanity not avoid them.
  • Spiritual awakening can help in easing mental issues but its not way of life and give guidance for someone to operate his or her life. In this regard islam prevails because Islam promotes helping other and doing community helping tasks to get spiritual need done. In fact the highest level of Iman which is called Ihsan like we have seen above is achieved only if you are very good to people because when you do 70 branches of Iman then you achieve first stage of ihsan. Which is like Nirvana but achieved totally in different way and it is related to Allah.
  • For achieving highest level of iman which is a spiritual state only be achieved when you have only good thoughts and action toward creation of Allah. So spiritually we have edge over buddhism.
  • My opponent just asking question about buddhism to claim to be superior. This is not how debates are done. My opponent never provided any rebuttal to my arguments. He never considered my definitions and criteria and even his own which we can co relate to our resolutions.
  • My opponent gave just very rough draft form of argument with resources which do not works.
  • His arguments are questions and his point of view like he is inviting or baiting 3rd party and trying to convince that his point of view is superior, because it is his point of view which is kind of atheistic point of view and has advantage without evidence.
  • My opponent must know that this debate was not about the existence of God. And believing in God is not something negative and not believing should not give any advantage to this debate unless proven to have any.
  • As my opponent is trying to bait voter on baseless assertions so any vote bomb would face jury and any RDF which has no good reasoning would be reversed by jury.
  • I would encourage my supporters as well to never vote bomb me as well, thanks.,
  • Muslim pray 5 times a day is meditation so it should not be negative or flaw for operating life matters. As my opponent’s main argument is meditation. So it should be plus point.
  • Fear of hell to do good is not flaw but its natural instinct of human being to follow rules with the fear of punishment that is why Law and regulations are made in every place of world and people do behave well because of them. Not all people can be lawless monks in the world, if so then world would not work at all.
  • I am the instigator of the debate, even my opponent choose the resolution but still he is deviated totally from it. He is not considering definition of life from my argument. And not providing any guidance for the operation of someone's life according to buddhism to be superior while contrary to that I have done it in full detail.
  • Tone of my opponent is like he is not debating with me but just inviting voter to be biased for the believes of my opponent to be superior without evidence. And his arguments are not logical or evidence based but in the form of question. Islam believes in one god and they do good in the fear of hell so that is why its bad?
  • My opponent is not coherent with the debate, he is behaving solo and with debating himself.
  • My opponent is not sure what he is talking, his stance is not clear at all. He is double minded to choose between buddhism and agnosticism.
  • My opponent considered buddhism to be superior but never bother to choose it for himself that is why he is agnostic. I am sure agnostic do not believe in any religion.
  • Buddhism even failed to convinced my opponent how come it can do to others?
  • Finally I would invite my opponent to take this debate serious and provide solid evidences not just some questions and baseless assertions and self thoughts.
  • Islam is superior in all aspect of life while buddhism do not.
  • Islam provide complete system for operating life while buddhism is religion of monks who live life of seclusion. So cannot be guidance for a person who lives a normal social life. A life in which he works, have relations and a social life. While Islam provide full guidance for all those aspects in best manner which I have already mentioned in my first argument and in this too.
  • Islam is best.
  • See how buddhism is declining after its inception.


Forfeit:
About forfeit, I set the rule number 4so that a person do better conduct. Its not to give unreasonableadvantage for debate.
As I set this rule I can flex it toowith the consent of my opponent. If both parties agree then therecould be relaxation for rule number 4 and only one round will beskipped.
So I would invite my opponent to agreeabout it to skip the round 4 and let the voter vote for the rest ofdebate. And I also invite voters to vote for better arguments. I havementioned that, it was inevitable for me to avoid forfeit. Because Idid not have internet for few days in which I decided to post myargument. As I am a busy person I had only time for weekend toprepare my argument. So that is why I argument was delayed till thelast 3 days.
Looking forward for good arguments frommy opponent.
Thanks








Slainte's avatar
Slainte
Con
#6
Pro forfeited a round, and per their rules they automatic lose.  that rule is not conditional.  It is absolute.  That being said:

Pro states in their first argument:


Islam issuperior (sic) to any other philosophy for operating one's life

Pro does not understand how a debate works.  The first round is not for refuting the others arguments.  It is for stating your own. I did read the entirty of Pro's arguments, and take issue for any inference to the contrary.

Pro has not shown this.  I have demonstrated why Buddhism is arguably a better philosophy for operating one's life.  

I have a serious problem with this debate.  Reading Pro's comments in the comment section, leaves a foul taste in my mouth.  For someone to portray their philosophy is superior, and then engage in such vitriol is beyond confusing.  especially in the comment section of the debate he is arguing.    No class, no tack, just childish gibberish.

i was hoping for a good honest debate.  I wanted to learn about Islam from a true follower.  Pro may speak the words, however his conduct shows he does not follow the words he speaks.  That is hypocrisy, and I am genuinely disappointed.  Therein I will keep my rebuttals short and respectful to the answer the questions posed..  

  • Pro asked why I would not concede, and the answer is clear.  Pro has not demon stated that Islam is superior.
  • Pro set the statement of Islam is superior to "any" other philosophy, therein i do not need to choose one.
  • I accept that Islam adds value to some peoples lives.  No argument there.
  • You cannot determine superiority without understanding the differences.  Is an apple better than an orange.  What are the differences, and the purpose?  An apple is better than an orange, when you want to make an apple pie.  An orange is better when you want to make orange juice.  Superiority is  a fact and context equation.
  • I do not have to have a philosophy that is superior.  All I have to do is demonstrate that Islam is not.  I have done that.
  • Pro is confusing a life philosophy, with life instructions.  I deduce he is saying that Islam is an instruction set.  Yet the definition of philosophy is as he posted is "a theory or attitude that acts as aguiding (sic) principle for behavior". I am not going to pick apart the individual list 'rules" in Islam.  This is about philosophy, not instruction.
Pro states

"While buddhism is not a system its just practice of a meditatingmonk."
I would encourage Pro to actually read what I said about Buddhism, and not erroneously miscategorize what I wrote.

I believe the the philosophical tenants of Buddhism are far superior than Islam.   I also see they are fundamentally very different.  The terrible behaviour  Pro exhibited in the comments section is not consistent with Buddhism philosophy.  I can only surmise that it is  consistent with Islam teachings, which is clearly not a superior way to operate ones life, by acting in such an offensive and reprehensible manner.

Round 4
tigerlord's avatar
tigerlord
Pro
#7

  • What I am supposed to do about it?
  • My first argument was not refuting at all, it was opening argument where I demonstrated that Islam has features to be best for humanity.
  • You claim, I do not know how to debate, while it's the opposite here. You are simply trolling in debate.

  • Furthermore, you are passive in the whole debate and totally ignoring me and my arguments, instead you are simply communicating with voters. And trying to convince them to support your personal views about the topic being discussed here.
  • There are no arguments from you and there is no rebuttal from you. Instead, just few questions and some opinions and little comparison based on some assumptions declaring you have won the debate as far as forfeit is not considered.
  • Me being harsh with someone else in the comment section is none of the concern of debate. And it should not make you emotional at all.
  • Being emotional in debate is never going to help in debate. Only solid arguments and rebuttal effects.
  • Well I am also a human being, when someone is being disrespectful to your prophet then it hurts us, and we become impulsive too. Meanwhile, it's not recommended, but it shows Islam is practical because it is the natural course of actions which Islam suggests. Though, tolerating and forgiving are the best virtues and rewarded.
  • Why death, insult, torture, and none freedom even freedom of speech for Muslims? While those Buddhist monks can kill in Burma? Also, what Dalai Lama said about killing? He said it's allowed in the case of Osama bin Laden. So killing is there after all in Buddhism.

Any ways now about arguments:
My opponent’s argument before my forfeit.
My position is that no one religion, or philosophy is “the” best.
This is a forfeit even before me, as he himself proposed the resolution, then why going back on it?
So I would ask voters to look at it as well. This statement is totally against the resolution.
Con said:
“Pro asked why I would not concede, and the answer is clear.  Pro has not demonstrated that Islam is superior”.
Rebuttal:
Did I not?
Con said:
“Pro set the statement of Islam is superior to “any” other philosophy, therein i do not need to choose one”
Rebuttal:
Contradictory statement, then why have you chosen Buddhism?
Con said:
“I accept that Islam adds value to some peoples lives.  No argument there.”
Rebuttal:
Again kind of forfeit, because my opponent said no argument there, means he does not want to argue with me about Islam adding values to the lives of some people.
Con said:
“You cannot determine superiority without understanding the differences.  Is an apple better than an orange.  What are the differences, and the purpose?  An apple is better than an orange, when you want to make an apple pie.  An orange is better when you want to make orange juice.  Superiority is  a fact and context equation”
Rebuttal:
There is no apple and orange difference here, as we have already seen in previous argument. Islam is also rich in spiritual awakening and meditation.
All those differences which Con mentioned had already been discussed, except considering animals to be ancestors. I can say that is core difference between Buddhism and Islam also reincarnations. Though Islam talks about it as well only 1 more time and Buddhism probably unlimited time. Because humanity have never seen nirvana. Though Buddha being buried alive could be considered nirvana for Buddhist, but I would say it was suicide.
So I will not consider Buddhism being apple or orange at all. So there is no question of making pie or juice from it. Probably impractical, it is.
Con said:
“I do not have to have a philosophy that is superior.  All I have to do is demonstrate that Islam is not.  I have done that”.
Rebuttal:
Again, forfeit from his present stance, which means his argument for Buddhism has been nullified and it was all in vain.
He is forfeiting from his present stance, so I could say he has forfeited in the debate more than me. I did 1 time because of inevitable circumstances, not intentionally.
And where he has proven that Islam is not superior? He removed Buddhism himself and also said he does not need any philosophy to prove Islam is superior. It is a clear-cut forfeit from the resolution.
When there is no other philosophy to compare then Islam is being monopoly automatically proving Islam is only one option being superior.
My opponent is confused, and taking different stances in each argument, nullifying the previous one by himself.
Con said:
“Pro is confusing a life philosophy, with life instructions.  I deduce he is saying that Islam is an instruction set.  Yet the definition of philosophy is as he posted is a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding (sic) principle for behavior”. I am not going to pick apart the individual list 'rules in Islam.  This is about philosophy, not instruction”
Rebuttal:
Life is not being discussed here at all, operations related to life has been discussed.
I wonder What Would Be Guiding principle for Behavior not other than instructions?
I really do not understand what my opponent is implying here.

Conclusion:

  • To be honest, my opponent has forfeited in debate more than me and even before me.
  • He is not sure what he is debating about, at one point he picked Buddhism to be competing against Islam, at one point he left it. He said he did not need any philosophy to deal with me in the debate.
  • At one point he said he just has to prove Islam is not superior and by proving it will make him win the debate. He does not need any philosophy to prove that, while at one point he said he needs some philosophy to compare to prove it.
  • So it is clear from many statements which my opponent made in his arguments that he is contradicting himself many times.
  • Con is very much passive regarding arguments from me, and he has ignored all arguments made by me and never tried to refute it.
  • Con become very emotional about comment section which is not part of debate.
  • Being emotional in debate does not prove you are correct.
  • Yet I want to apologize to my opponent if he had expectations from me, yet I failed to behave in that order. I will improve myself according to what is being said in debate. And try to apply instructions taught by Islam in sha Allah.
  • Islam is very much natural religion, it does not give instructions like if someone slap your one cheek then give him the other to slap. Which is very impractical because a person who is in that much rage to slap you at one cheek can slap you again on others. And with this he is not going to learn anything but will return to the same condition. And probably he will never learn his lesson, unless you give him justice.
  • Islam says if someone comes to fight with you, then you have full right to defend yourself, not surrender and get hurt or die. Though if you have incapacitated him or her then forgiving is the best option. And there are numerous examples even at large since the beginning of Islam.
  • About Forfeit, I can say my opponent has done more time with his statements, Forfeit written in red does not mean it's an only way to forfeit. Something said carelessly can also be a good form of forfeit.
  • So I encourage voters to consider this, who forfeited first.
  • I apologize to Con if he got frustrated by my behavior in the comment section.

Thank you everyone,
Islam is best,
Be a Muslim and show Muslims are good.


Slainte's avatar
Slainte
Con
#8
Pro has stated, in summary, that I have not argued, that I have trolled, and I have not addressed their individual statements.  I need to remind Pro about the third rule, they requested.

3 No insult to Islam, and our beliefs.
How am I to question the voracity, and challenge the tenant that Islam is superior to all, without "insulting" the religion or belief.  Out of pure respect, I have opted not to focus on disrupting Islam, rather I have chosen to show an alternative.      Yet Pro is utterly blind to that fact that I have taken the most respectful approach, and argues that I am a troll, and have no idea how to debate. 

It is up to the Judges to determine if I have shown enough doubt that Islam is not the "best" and infact there are alternatives.

Confusion

Pro states in that last argument

Islam is very much natural religion, it does not give instructions like if someone slap your one cheek then give him the other to slap.
(emphasis added)

Yet in Round 1., Pro lists the following required under Islam:

  •  9 Instructions for drinking
  • 15 instructions for using the toilet, 
  • 7 instructions for walking
  • 16 instructions for talking 
  • 6 instructions for sleeping, 
  • And Many more.
Pro has misrepresented the system he is trying to defend.
I find it very difficult to believe that a philosophical system that micromanages ones life is  :the best".  At the core, certain religions and philosophical positions are designed to be a type of indentured servitude, where the work in your is for the benefit of a deity or prophet, be-it God, Allah, Mohammad, Jesus, Mary, Shiva, Vishnu etc.

i have shown a system that does not require servitude.  Pro's list of Islamic features is not an argument about why it is the best.  
Pro has failed to meet a BoP that Islam is the best.  If Pro's conduct is representative of Islam, then his conduct, even in this debate, is not superior to others.  He has insulted me, and misrepresented me, and I have not done the same.  He has gone back on his word, and flipped that on me.  He has tried to infer that I have forfeited, and because he does not understand what I wrote, I have the problem.

I think that the conduct  demonstrated, ignoring the forfeit, is a clear win.


I extend my Forfeit argument, and all others. 

Round 5
tigerlord's avatar
tigerlord
Pro
#9
My opponent thinks I am inviting him to insult my religion?
It is very weird if my opponent thought that way.
My opponent should not become emotional and personal, but to focus on arguments.
Swings from opponent on his stance is to present alternative is strange. He chose Buddhism then left it and said he does not need any philosophy to deal with me.
Am I confused, or my opponent?
Saying you trolled the debate is not an insult at all. It means you have not taken the debate seriously.
Yet I have apologized if I was being harsh, though I am not. My opponent is very sensitive and very emotional as well. In debate these things do not let you win, only facts and figures do and solid arguments as well.



Have you not seen my dedication to debate?
How much effort I have put to present my arguments, and what is your response?
Few questions and some opinion and baiting like-minded voters and some broken link.
Is it not trolling, then what else is?
You just ignored whatever I have said, and your response is just one-sided. There are few cherry-picks.
I can assure you have not read my whole arguments.
There is nothing left in this debate. Still, I thank you for participation.
My efforts have already been acknowledged and appreciated by Allah, he already told me about it, but I did not understand why I am being told that my efforts have been accepted. Like something going to happen with debate. I did not know then, that there could be a forfeit from me, which I have never done in my debating history. But this was not in my hands.
Let's end this quick so that I can start a new debate.
After this I am going to debate about Mother of all believers Aisha (R.a) and her marriage with Prophet Muhammad saw.

Islam is best.
Be a Muslim and show Muslims are good people.






Slainte's avatar
Slainte
Con
#10
Pro Claims as the resolution agreed. 

Islam issuperior to any other philosophy for operating one's life
Pro gave a very detailed account to the instructional nature of Islam.  The code, the practices, the steps one must follow and adhere to,  Pro infers philosophy equates to instructions,  I argue it does not.   Pro has not established:

  1. Islam is superior to any other philosophy for operating one's life
  2. Buddhism, is an inferior philosophy
  3. Any single element of Islam that does de-facto make it a superior philosophy.
  4. Any single element of all other philosophies that render those philosophies inferior to Islam
I demonstrated very clearly that there is an argument to be made that Islam is  not superior.  I meet my burden of proof by achieving that objective.

Pro set a rule that forbids insulting Islam or the beliefs.  As stated int he last round, I took a very respectful approach not to argue about the legitimacy of Islam.  I am arguing if Islam is a superior  philosophy or not. Pro has negated to understand this, despite significant efforts on my part.  Pro states Islam is a philosophy, and not a list of instructions, and yet gave a list of over 40 instructions.  Pro wanted to argue about the merits of those instructions.   Later Pro claims that Islam is not about instructions.  With such an uncertainty, how can it be superior?

Pro Conduct 

  • Pro accused me of trolling because I was not taking the debate seriously.    I did not forfeit any rounds and responded effectively.
  • Pro set the rules, and broke one of the rules by forfeiting a round.
  • Pro set a rule, not to insult Islam or the beliefs, which is a dangerous line to draw.  Insults are subjective and not objective.  I followed this very carefully out of absolute respect, and was only admonished and criticized for it.  I refused to get into an argument on semantics, when the discussion is about the superiority of a philosophy.
  • Rule 6 of Pro states that the first argument was to outline your beliefs, and yet attacked me for not responding to their opening statements.
  • Pro has accused me of being incoherent, not taking the debate seriously, being emotional, not reading the entire argument etc.   For the last point, Pro says "I can assure you have not read my whole arguments."   Pro has no way to know this.  That is a statement without any fact, and really undermines Pro's credibility to other "facts" they state.
Conclusion

I win for the following three reasons:

  1. Pro broke their rules and forfeited a round.
  2. Pro has not established that Islam is superior to any other philosophy
  3. Pro's conduct is demonstrative of Islam, as he claims to be a devout Muslim.  How can a philosophy that encourages such vitriol be superior?  It cannot.
I would encourage Pro to stop attacking people, and use cohesive words, and arguments.  Pro demanded respect for their philosophy in the rules, and showed none to their opponent.  I shall use this as an example for my children on what not to do in a debate.

i hope Pro finds peace and tranquility.