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Topic
#4348
You cannot find a bonafide contradiction in the scriptures.
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The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 4 votes and with 4 points ahead, the winner is...
Mall
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Description
Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.
Biblical contradictions you find not. Any you think you can find or think you have found, I will attempt to debunk them as contradictions that are perceived to be.
Questions on the topic, leave them in the comments.
Round 1
If you don't believe there are contradictions but know of others that say that there are and are confused, you can still present them here. We can discuss them, go into them.
You can play opposition's advocate.
Let us begin with the one that many people find confusing.
Matthew 5:
"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven."
Psalms 139:19-22
"Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men. For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies."
So the psalms motivate us to hate our enemies, while New Testament tells us to love our enemies.
What is your explanation for this message from the Bible that some people found confusing?
Round 2
"Let us begin with the one that many people find confusing.
Matthew 5:
"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven." "
One thing comes to mind , people get confused as they don't understand or unaware that there's an old and new testament. "You have heard that it was said". That's past tense and the old is past tense . For instance when we say , that was the old way or old route we took in the past. That's the old law that we observed.
"But I say to you". Emphasizing an adherence of someone saying something, follow it. Just old and new, a change. If it would of said you have heard hate your enemy and I say to you that you have heard ,love your enemy, now we having a contradicting statement. Two different things at the same time.
The scripture shows two different things at two different times, amen.
Thats a good explanation. I agree that at different times, there are different commands. Sometimes love is a better option than hate. So we are to apply options as they suit the situation. Also, it needs to be noted that one can hate and love at the same time.
What about this one?
James 1:13
Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. And remember, when you are being tempted, do not say, “God is tempting me.” God is never tempted to do wrong, and he never tempts anyone else.
Genesis 22:1
"Some time later God tested Abraham."
Round 3
In the first chapter of James :
"13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death."
This is about being tempted by evil or to do wrong. God will not tempt someone to the end result of death. As the scripture says unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
God is not tempted by evil. No one should be either.
It lines up when it comes to Genesis 22.
In verse 2 "And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. "
So this was a command from God first off.
Let's drop down to verse 10.
"10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.
15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice."
So after all this , I hope you're following along good and we see he followed the command of God. But it never amounted to evil and or death for that matter.
But many blessings.
Okay, yes. The testing was obviously done when God knew the outcome would be good.
One more. Let us use the previous verse again.
James 1:13
Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.
Isaiah 45 7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
So God creates evil, but doesnt tempt anyone with it. What is your explanation for these verses which confuse people?
Round 4
"So God creates evil, but doesnt tempt anyone with it. What is your explanation for these verses which confuse people? "
Going off the basic things in scripture God created the Son of the morning which turned out to be an evil fallen angel. We as people according to the scripture have fallen and do evil but we're here because according to the book, God created us as well and it was good. God created the vessels that evil dwells in but the vessels are given up to evil to do what they do .
In Isaiah 45
7 "I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.
8 “You heavens above, rain down my righteousness;
let the clouds shower it down.
Let the earth open wide,
let salvation spring up,
let righteousness flourish with it;
I, the Lord, have created it."
There could be a translation disparity. The translators decided to use disaster rather than evil. Which makes sense because creating evil raining down righteousness are opposing as the consecutive verses are read.
God created disaster for punishment like the flood which according to the scriptures is what a righteous judge would do. But making evil and producing a rain pour of righteousness, I don't see how that goes together.
Someone reading this would think a righteous (not evil) God produces evil?
The truth is we read in Romans 1 God gave up what He created to evil . That's the only hand in creation He has in the same context of evil being created. People choose and produce the evil but God created the people that are accountable for it .
Now I know there are those that see the punishment from God of the Bible as evil and calls it that. So there's multiple different angles to take on this.
As long as we have an understanding on each angle or way to look at it based on exactly what's written, you don't get a contradiction.
The people that'll vote for there being contradictions , positive indicator they lack understanding.
These are good points on the scripture you're bringing. This is quite enjoyable with you.
Yeah, its a translation issue. In the New Testament, God clearly says that evil people are not his product but the product of the evil one.
Let us do one more, so that we can complete this.
Matthew 3:13-14
"Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?"
Luke 7:18-19
"John’s disciples told him about all these things. Calling two of them, he sent them to the Lord to ask, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?"
John recognized Jesus and his importance in Matthew 3:14, and John baptised Jesus.
But later, in Luke 7:19, when John is in prison, John sends his disciples and asks Jesus if he is the one who is to come.
What is your explanation for this that confused some people and led them to believe its contradiction?
Round 5
I suppose it's the order of events that confuses people.
Upon reading these passages, I don't see contradictions.
One is dealing with what you can say is irony of whom would baptize who and the other passages is about finding out who this Jesus is hearing about all this wondrous fantastic events.
I agree. After the miracles, it became more obvious that Jesus is someone of great importance. Plus, at the time, John was in prison so I assume he needed the confirmation to know if he should instruct his own disciples to follow Jesus.
Thank you for this. We covered good amount of topics. It is easy for readers to read.
At this point, I concede, as I did not find any contradiction in the scriptures.
I didnt accept this while thinking: "There is a contradiction".
I accepted this to get a different view on what I think are parts of the Bible some people have found confusing.