Instigator / Pro
17
1500
rating
8
debates
12.5%
won
Topic
#4123
Quran is not not word of god .
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 3 votes and with 4 points ahead, the winner is...
Phaneron
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Two days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
21
1500
rating
8
debates
37.5%
won
Description
I will like to have a peaceful debate , thank you.
Round 1
Topic : Quran is not word of god
Oath - define as
"a solemn attestation of the truth or inviolability of one's words"
"a promise, especially that you will tell the truth"
Oath taking action is done by human only as he can speak and can communicate.
Human takes swears or oath to justify that he is talking or speaking truth , no animal , non living and living except human can't take so as an oath to justify there speech of truth .
In short, I am saying that oath taking action is only done by human.
Argument : God can't take oats as he is creator himself. why should he have to take oaths ? , to show that he is speaking truth ?
Sources :
Night and Day (Al-Fajr 89:1-2)
Stars (An-Najm 53:1)
Quran ( Al-Qalam 68:1)
Human Soul (An-Nisa 4:1)
Mountains (Al-Baqarah 2:143
Wind ( Al-Furqan 25:48)
Time (Al-Asr 103:1-3)
Heavens (Al-Baqarah 2:22)
Earth ( Al-Baqarah 2:22)
Angels ( Al-Baqarah 2:102
)
Day of Judgement (Al-Fajr 89:1-3)
The creation and commandment of Allah (Al-A'raf 7:54)
The alternation of night and day (Al-Fajr 89:1-2)
The creation of man (Al-Baqarah) 2:28
The soul and its inspiration as to its wrong and its righteousness (Ash-Shams 91:7-8)
The Quran in Defense of legitimacy
The Quran unlike the Bible has never changed from its original form. The Bible on the other hand has many versions which many speculators assume is because Kings changed the Bible to fit their needs in making the population servile. Muslims have studied the Bible and still believe in Jesus Christ as a prophet. Islam is like most big religions of today, which are based on Christ.
The Word of God
The Quran and the Bible both were written by prophets and/or apostles who interpreted the speech of the divine. It is wrong to say that the Quran is a oath but a way to spread the wisdom of God(Allah). It is up to the individual man to either embrace the true word of God or to reject it. Since the Quran was written by people, you would expect them to write the holy book using their own culture and time period as reference. For example the word love in the English translation of the Bible was much different in the Greek version. Love in Greek had three words. Agápe meant love for humanity. Éros meant romantic love. Philia meant love between equals such as friends. A interesting fact is that Philadelphia means brotherly love. So when you look at a specific word in the Quran, you must understand that words evolve overtime and the implications may change since the Quran is a old text.
Round 2
If u are agree that god can talk oath !
For what concern and what to prove god is taking swears ?
Why god needs to take swear ?
Why human do swears of god?
If god have to take swear if whom he will take?
Does creater himself have to prove that he is tell truth ?
It's a joke.
Before revealing of holy quran , allah had taken swear on quran itself (Al-Qalam 68:1).
Is it possible?
Waiting for the source that quran is a book in which the words are of allah God.
Allah takes swear of Night and Day .
For what concern and what to prove god is taking swears ?
Why god needs to take swear ?
Why human do swears of god?
If god have to take swear if whom he will take?
Does creater himself have to prove that he is tell truth ?
It's a joke.
Before revealing of holy quran , allah had taken swear on quran itself (Al-Qalam 68:1).
Is it possible?
Waiting for the source that quran is a book in which the words are of allah God.
Allah takes swear of Night and Day .
Allah takes swear of Stars
Allah takes swear of Quran
Allah takes swear of Human Soul
Allah takes swear of Mountains
Allah takes swear of Wind
Allah takes swear of Time
Allah takes swear of Heavens
Allah takes swear of Earth
Allah takes swear of Angel
Allah takes swear of Day of Judgement
Allah takes swear of The creation and commandment of Allah
Allah takes swear of The alternation of night and day
Allah takes swear of The creation of man
Allah takes swear of The soul and its inspiration as to its wrong and its righteousness
If All this things are made by Allah himself then why he is taking swear of them, if a person swear on such things, we will say "Is this guy mad?"
Night and Day
Stars
Quran
Human Soul
Mountains
Wind
Time
Heavens
Earth
Angels
Day of Judgement
The creation and commandment of Allah
The alternation of night and day
The creation of man
The soul and its inspiration as to its wrong and its righteousness
Do you take swear of day and night?
Of Night and Day
Stars
Quran
Human Soul
Mountains
Wind
Time
Heavens
Earth
Angels
Day of Judgement
The creation and commandment of Allah
The alternation of night and day
The creation of man
The soul and its inspiration as to its wrong and its righteousness
?
Looking forward for better respond 🤝
Counter Argument
God is a super intelligent being that encompasses everything. Everything is God and God is everything. He knows all and because of that we do not always have the privilege to question him. But do not be mistaken that whatever God does has logic behind it even if one does not see it.
I can only humbly assume that God meant to give an oath that the Quran was true to convince his flock that this book is true. Since the Quran was not written by God directly and by divine interpreter, God confirmed that the content inside was true by taking the oath. Remember that before the Quran was written the Arabian peninsular was divided with 360 Gods, each day was a different God. The prophet Mouhamad united the Arabians and in order to convince them that what he says is true he needed God to swear on it as one can imagine it was hard to change your religion out of nowhere after many generations. In our current day, a faithful person will dare not question the authority of God but people before being introduced the wisdom of God would have undoubtfully questioned God.
Note: I understand that English is not your second language nor is it mine. I apologize if I was unable to answer your questions or if I understood them wrong because it was a little difficult to understand what you was trying to specifically ask.
God is a super intelligent being that encompasses everything. Everything is God and God is everything. He knows all and because of that we do not always have the privilege to question him. But do not be mistaken that whatever God does has logic behind it even if one does not see it.
I can only humbly assume that God meant to give an oath that the Quran was true to convince his flock that this book is true. Since the Quran was not written by God directly and by divine interpreter, God confirmed that the content inside was true by taking the oath. Remember that before the Quran was written the Arabian peninsular was divided with 360 Gods, each day was a different God. The prophet Mouhamad united the Arabians and in order to convince them that what he says is true he needed God to swear on it as one can imagine it was hard to change your religion out of nowhere after many generations. In our current day, a faithful person will dare not question the authority of God but people before being introduced the wisdom of God would have undoubtfully questioned God.
Note: I understand that English is not your second language nor is it mine. I apologize if I was unable to answer your questions or if I understood them wrong because it was a little difficult to understand what you was trying to specifically ask.
Round 3
God is a super intelligent being that encompasses everything. Everything is God and God is everything. He knows all and because of that we do not always have the privilege to question him. But do not be mistaken that whatever God does has logic behind it even if one does not see it.
God is everything and everything is god , is it ?
God is person who lie?
God is the male who rape?
God is who kill people behalf of jihad?
God do rapes because it has logic behind it?
God Knows everything that we even don't know, so we don't have rights to ask your god , what's reason behind it !
If raping is bad ? Why god do rape?
Lying is bad ? Why god lie?
Kill the unbeliever?
Women's are the farm yield them as u want ?
Why god is saying this if the quran is claimed true as by god swear/oath?
Sorry i am asking questions.
Define GOD ?
Since the Quran was not written by God directly and by divine interpreter, God confirmed that the content inside was true by taking the oath.
Quran wasn't word of god ?
God just confirmed it. Okay
Quran is not word of God
Hence proved,
Quran is just confirmed by god .
Muhammad said to people that god allah has swear on quran on day on night on creation of human etc ,
Even god didn't said by himself , god use muhammd as a medium to Convey.
No proof that god himself swear, all words are trough muhammd,
Difficult to say , which are the words of god and which are the words of muhammd!!
Else you accepted that Quran is not the word of god.
Since the Quran was not written by God directly and by divine interpreter, God confirmed that the content inside was true by taking the oath.
God taken oath to confirm that quran is ture in quran itself.
Before completing quran he already taken swear on that quran itself , intresting.
But debate is over as you agreed that quran is not word of God
It was nice to have a debate with you, if u have further response we can continue, thank you.
Quran is the word of God
Of course the Quran was now written directly by God but by Divine interpreters. But nevertheless Quran is the word of God. For example of an author of a book would hire a type-writer. who would type whatever the author said. The book would still be considered the word of the author as it was him who created the idea. Muhammed is the physical manifestation of God who was send to spread his word and in the example he is the type-writer.
What is God?
God is not just a independent entity that watches and knows all. God is all because he created all. God is not a physical being as we like to see him as. God is what connects all matter and all being. Their was a study done in the State University of Southwestern Bahia in Brazil that concluded that all atoms are connected to each other. They tested this by growing bacteria in a petri dish and once it has grown, they split it in half. They put the first half on one side of the campus and the other half the other side. They electrocuted one the separated bacteria and the surprising thing is that both bacteria who was far apart had the same effect from the electricity. All things are connected and God is that universal connection.
If God is everything then how can he merely sit back when humans are immoral?
God can do anything and do not be mistaken that God dislikes our degenerate behavior. Though he is intelligent enough to realize that he created man so that he may have free will. If God was to step in and stop all horrifying events to happen such as the Holocaust or slavery it would result in a utopia where God is the dictator. God is not a tyrannical being and allows for us to think for ourselves so that we can share the wisdom of God. Also it is wrong to label God as a mere bystander of deadly sins because he keeps track of all of our sins so that one day we may be judged. Us living is God giving us a chance to repent and to be ultimately forgiven. It is not God that is rapping but the being that God gave freewill to whose mind is clouded by primitive emotions.
Intelligence_06's vote it fine. It's a null vote, I'm not even going to pull up the spreadsheet.
It took me a minute... So there's an annoying bit of flawed code in voting, that any unassigned points are awarded to both sides.
So Intelligence's null vote (https://www.debateart.com/debates/4123/vote-links/8571) gave 7 to both sides, since both sides received 7 it's a wash. I'd prefer it if it gave 0 to both sides, but I cannot modify the coding (the owner wants to maintain control on that, and says it'll get fixed eventually).
Mps' vote (https://www.debateart.com/debates/4123/vote-links/8576) creates the 1 point difference, via giving S&G to only one side
When removing votes, I only reference the difference (the tied points are not even considered to be cast for purposes of moderation).
Dude, how is it fair to award points to the instigator? If you think my vote was null, and you removed it, why does the Contender need to get punished for it? If this is the case, people could go around sabotaging debates.
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>Reported Vote: Americandebater24 // Mod action: Removed
>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
>Points Awarded: 3 to pro.
>Reason for Decision: "As an atheist, who values logic and reason over faith and thus lacks a belief in Allah and Gods in general, I have to side with the Pro."
>Reason for Mod Action:
Any awarded point(s) must be based on the content presented inside the debate rounds. Content from the comment section, other votes, forums, your personal experience, etcetera, is ineligible for point allotments.
https://info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy#based-on-outside-content
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**************************************************
>Reported Vote: M.H.S // Mod action: Removed
>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
>Points Awarded: 5 to con.
>Reason for Decision: "Contender's arguments alone should be the reason he wins."
>Reason for Mod Action:
In essence, this vote was just too vague... This can be avoided in future by just commenting on the core contention (and the main counterpoint or the lack thereof), listing a single source you found important (if voting sources), saying what conduct violation distracted you (if voting conduct)... You need not write a thesis, but some minimal level of detail is required to verify knowledge of what you're grading.
https://info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy#casting-votes
**************************************************
And because this "spelling error", it changes everything.
It was not "not not". This was a spelling error by the instigator.
"Contender had a much better argument."
That is not valid reason for point allotments.
Please review the voting policy before casting more votes:
https://info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy#sufficiency
@Intelligence_06
Ok next time u will do that too , thank you for feedback sir
It would be much better if you link websites of Quran passages. We, as secular people don't know it as well as you do.
Even though I was with the Quran ,the agressive debater won by a long shot. He caught him in a trap and quoted him contradicting himself. Slaughter
Hello , it's my first here. . thank you for accepting it will be a understanding debate thank you onces again
Your outer description is at war with the stance of the topic.
Hello, this will be fun.