Instigator / Pro

TheDebator

1500

rating

debates

0.0%

won

Topic

#4065

Final exams should be abolished

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...

Intelligence_06

Tags

Education

Parameters

Publication date: 01.15.2023 03:55PM
Last updated date: 02.20.2023 06:13PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 2
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: One month
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

Intelligence_06

1737

rating

172

debates

73.26%

won

Description

No information

Round 1

TheDebator

01.17.2023 03:58PM

Pro

Forfeited

Intelligence_06

01.17.2023 04:36PM

Con

Definitions

Final

2
: coming at the end : being the last in a series, process, or progress
the final chapter
final exams

Exams

1
: the act or process of examining : the state of being examined
2
: an exercise designed to examine progress or test qualification or knowledge

Abolish

: to end the observance or effect of (something, such as a law) : to completely do away with (something) : ANNUL
abolish a law

So basically, the topic intends to justify removing all processes intended to test knowledge at the end of a learning stage.

Exams

Exams can take place in any shape or form, not just limited to paper or webpage form. For a driving exam, it could as well be taken on a driving simulator or an actual car. For a football exam, it would as well be taken in front of the goal on the field, instead of purely paperwork. In order to justify the topic statement, it must be justified itself that knowledge require no examination at the end of a learning stage, not in criticism of any one form of testing, because if the form changes without itself not examining knowledge, it is still an exam.

"Final"

If we are intended to absorb no new knowledge from the curriculum after a certain stage in the term, despite the term not ending here, the last exam taken in the semester is the final exam according to the definition. For example, if Prom and the graduation ceremony is held on the last day of school formally, then the closest exam before that would be the final exam. No requirement exists on what finals exams could include, the only requirement is they must be the last one.

The phrase "final exam" is only meaningful if new knowledge is intended to be transmitted from the teacher to the student before it, just like in any intervals including the midterms. Maybe it will be treated as the most important one in the entire course, however, in essence, it is not far different from other exams in said course, if any. Dropping finals could be bundled with either of the two:

Dropping only finals and no other exams.
Drop other exams, in the set also includes the finals.

In this case, to prove Pro's position, one must prove that:

The information taught after a point of a semester's learning course is always unimportant and unworthy of a test to be given out.
Information taught to students should never be tested regardless of the present time-stage.

To correspond with the two choices above.

"Constructive"

I will provide sources on why information taught towards students should always be examined in general, since I actually have to do something myself.

Importance of Mandatory and Cumulative College Final Exams (paulrheller.com)

The Importance of Examination - Hosbeg.com

Importance Of Examination | Conduct Exam Technologies LLP

Pro has forfeited the first round and left either of the two ways Pro can win unused as of yet. I rest my case here.

Round 2

TheDebator

01.19.2023 04:28PM

Pro

Thank you for accepting Intelligence, and I apologise for not answering in the first round.

The biggest and main argument is the one of getting sick

The biggest and main argument is the one of getting sick, mentally and physically. Truth be told I myself have graduated with the IB, and in a lot of subjects 100 - 75 percent of the grade is put on the final exam. I was in a school of about 300 students per year, and there was a story told of this boy who's parents have died in a car crash, a month before the final exam schedules. It was tragic and emotional for him and his siblings, however inflexible schedules of the IB they did not overturn, even given this disastrous situation. He ended up, resitting the exams months after the official final deadline and luckily passed, nonetheless it was now harder for him to go into a university, because his IB certificate had to be delayed.

Helping them to see how well they have retained knowledge throughout the year is a myth

"There is no final examination to mark the end of upper secondary school education. Each pupil receives the Gymnasieexamen (upper secondary school certificate) from their school, consisting of a summary of the courses studied and the marks received over the three years, including the certificate project." (Swedens educational system link)

Look, there is a perception that if you have exams during the year that you will not be able to retain the knowledge at the end of the year. Looking at the by far best educational system in the world (the Swedish education system), this is clearly a false statement, because of the fact that each exam is still able to cumulate from the previous exams, therefore giving students who are not physically or mentally able to join a choice to catch up, just like in the Swedish educational system. Now your argument might be, "well what if the student is physically or mentally not able to attend attention-fully for a couple of months". Well firstly, this argument goes both ways, as in both cases the student will have to catch up on the topics, however for Pro its understandable to recognise that this might be more a problem, due to the fact that when the student joins back into class, the student will now have to write exams covering all the topics the student had missed plus all the other topics the student had attended, whilst in Cons situation the student could potentially still cover all the knowledge, given the student has enough time till the final exam. This argument is again flawed, and was bypassed by the Swedish educational system, by making all grades from A - E a pass and all grades with a F a fail, which in turn is creating more openness to the success rate of the Swedish educational system, and allowing any troublesome student to still pass and continue his career.

By this my case is close, and I hope you have fun making a counter-case.

Intelligence_06

01.21.2023 03:36AM

Con

Rebuttals

The biggest and main argument is the one of getting sick, mentally and physically. Truth be told I myself have graduated with the IB, and in a lot of subjects 100 - 75 percent of the grade is put on the final exam. It was tragic and emotional for him and his siblings, however inflexible schedules of the IB they did not overturn, even given this disastrous situation.

This does not argue against the notion of having exams within the last leg of students' learning. This merely criticizes one aspect of a format of finals, which as pointed out, does not argue for the outright abolition of finals as a whole within all scenarios. This problem can be easily solved if finals can be subject to rescheduling. To give one example, Collegeboard/AP does a fine job with this by providing the function of late testing. By comparison, yes, this is their regular test dates. This problem can be solved better if the weighing of the final test is not vastly larger than every other official assignment. A final exam can have the equal quantity of authority on a student's grade as every other test even if said final tests on everything they have accumulated in learning. That will do less damage towards the credit level of the student while having finals retained, not abolished formally.

Again, because the definition of "final exams" is not limited to pen-and-paperwork, technically, any group project done at the end of a semester based on anything they have learned would count as a final exam as it examinates the students' grasp on the intended area of knowledge, too. The definitions given are being dropped, so at this stage, we ought to assume that it is being accepted.

Each pupil receives the Gymnasieexamen (upper secondary school certificate) from their school, consisting of a summary of the courses studied and the marks received over the three years, including the certificate project."

Without even as small a trace of objection to the definition, this clearly implies they do have finals. The certificate project, a project that serves as the final test, carries the exact same role. The certificate project IS the final exam in this context.

this is clearly a false statement, because of the fact that each exam is still able to cumulate from the previous exams

That is not entirely correct, a final can still test only on those learned this month and still be called a final. The entire paragraph is based solely on the notion that this is true, which it is not.

Conclusion:

All that a final needs is to be the last one in the semester and to test on some form of knowledge they have learned within said semester.
Finals do not have to be limited in any one given form. Driving tests and shooting tests are finals, so are certificate projects if they are done near the end of the course.
Pro argues against certain formats of finals, not the entire idea of finals existing. To the perspective of the topic, Pro amounted to nothing.
Pro forfeited 50%. That is bad conduct!

I rest my case. May the best reader vote.

AustinL0926

02.20.2023 06:13PM

-->

@Intelligence_06

It's an intentional change IIRC, since the contender hadn't completed the required qualification of completing five debates (in order to create a rated one). Personally I dislike how it applies retroactively, I think it's sort of unfair.

Intelligence_06

02.20.2023 08:57AM

I gained nothing by winning this one even though it was rated from the start. Is this a bug worth fixing?

Melcharaz

02.20.2023 03:59AM

please dont put me in ptsd by mentioning written final exams.

AleutianTexan

02.05.2023 07:54AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

I vote Con.

On the definitions, they are uncontested, so I use these metrics to evaluate the round. Pro needs to define "final exams" as a term of art for final paper tests in academic classes that are X% or more of the class to win any offense.

On the question of things like driving, like, this is where I end up pulling the trigger and voting, but I would love Con to do more work. If we can't test people who drive, then there are really bad drivers, and this causes more accidents and deaths. This gives me something to weigh against the Pro a lot easier. Pro should answer this at all.

On sickness, I buy Cons defense that reforms to testing solve as opposed to abolition outright. Pro needs to be present for the first speech, or the Con gets golden uncontested answers to your case, especially in a two round debate.

Checking info being a myth, I have a couple comments.
1. Even if this is true, this is not impacted to driving tests, and only answers academic tests.
2. Neg said it didn't have to be for the entire class, which is a golden answer I buy.

No finals in Sweden, I buy Cons golden answer that they do have one, which destroys any ability to even imagine a world of the Pro, so I don't even know what I would be voting for.

Lastly, Con tells me to vote Con on conduct for the forfeit, but I don't for two reasons
1. Life is hard, I don't know what Pro has going on and
2. You should have had this in your first speech for Pro to have a chance to answer it, otherwise, it feels too new in the last speech for me to vote on.

Great debate, if either debater has questions, please send me a question, message, or comment!