Instigator / Pro
4
1271
rating
354
debates
39.83%
won
Topic
#3999
Abortion is wrong in all cases and should be illegal in all cases (no exceptions). Even miscarriages should be illegal.
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 1 vote and with 3 points ahead, the winner is...
Hs400
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- Two weeks
- Max argument characters
- 30,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
7
1509
rating
12
debates
25.0%
won
Description
My position is that it should be illegal to have abortions or miscarriages. In case of an abortion or a miscarriage, the baby died and someone has to pay for it.
Round 1
Abortion is murder. The baby is dead after abortion.
Abortion is wrong yes. But it should not be illegal. Take a woman who is in poverty, no money, no reliable source of income, no home, nothing. Now let's say this woman is raped. Do you really think it should be illegal for her to get rid of this child? A child she never wanted, a child who will live in poverty and a shameful life for all or most their childhood. Although abortion can be considered as murder, sometimes it is necessary.
Allow me to give a description of murder. Murder is the legal term for the intentional killing of someone or the killing of someone as the result of a complete disregard for their life. A mother who does not want a child to be brought into this world because of her poor living environment and choices and decides to "kill" the baby is not a murder because a mother like this takes into consideration the life of the child. Now if a woman were to be recklessly having sex and gets pregnant, and then gets rid of the baby because she felt like it is truly a bad person and can be considered a murderer. I believe abortion should not be illegal because it is right in some cases, but wrong in others.
Round 2
Lets abort all children and see what happens.
Sorry, you say that if your father was rapist, then your mother has a right to kill you?
Well, surely all mothers should hate their children.
Being raped gives you license to kill? Well, thats new.
You kill your children to save them from poverty? That is an interesting tactic. Do you agree to kill poor people?
En garde!!!!
Sorry, you say that if your father was rapist, then your mother has a right to kill you?
No? What is your argument here? I stated if a woman is raped, she has the choice to not conceive the baby, not that it's because the father is a rapist, but because she did not want the child and it was forced onto her.
Well, surely all mothers should hate their children.
I genuinely do not know how you got to this idea from my argument.
Being raped gives you license to kill? Well, that's new.
I never specifically stated that being raped gives you the right to kill, I never said that just because a woman is raped, she can go brutally stab someone to death, did I?
You kill your children to save them from poverty? That is an interesting tactic. Do you agree to kill poor people?
You misunderstand. If a woman knows her living situation is unsuitable for a child, and that she cannot afford one, she has every right to get rid of the child because there is no way she can raise it in a lively manner.
Allow me to quote what your argument is: My position is that it should be illegal to have abortions or miscarriages. In case of an abortion or a miscarriage, the baby died and someone has to pay for it.
You mention that you believe it should be illegal to have a miscarriage. What exactly is a miscarriage?
Miscarriage is when an embryo or fetus dies before the 20th week of pregnancy.
Now, what causes a miscarriage?
- Chromosomal abnormalities due to genetic factors
- Some drugs like NSAIDS, for example ibuprofen, naproxen, celecoxib, if taken during pregnancy
- Abnormalities of the uterus
- Medical conditions like thyroid diseases and diabetes
- Certain infections which may spread to the reproductive system
- Hormonal problems
- Responses of immune system
- Cervical insufficiency where the cervix is weak and cannot hold a pregnancy causes miscarriage in the second trimester
Causes of miscarriage are mostly natural. Are you trying to argue that something that can naturally happen that ends in a person's death should be illegal?
So, should we make natural disasters illegal, heart attacks illegal, strokes illegal, cancer? Unless you can back up the point that miscarriages should be illegal, I believe you will lose this debate.
Round 3
Abortion is not the death of the baby. Baby is alive after abortion and will still be born.
All rape victims should be allowed to beat people up. Being raped gives you license to cry and kill. Being raped means everyone should give you money and car so that you can kill your baby. "Mommy doesnt want you, so you have to die".
People should be forced to pay not only for abortions, but every person should give like 1000$ for rape victims.
Maybe our senate should be elected by rape victims.
That will make everything better.
And abortions should be mandatory for poor people. Like, you cant have a baby if you are poor.
No one should be responsible if so many babies die. Like, if a woman has a miscarriage, its obviously her fault, but she should not go to prison because she is a woman.
Lets all admire how great women are when they kill their babies.
Abortion is not the death of the baby. Baby is alive after abortion and will still be born.
Pro admits abortion is not murder, therefore throwing his whole case out of the window, this helps me to back up my point that abortion should not be illegal.
Pro continues to not back up his point that miscarriages should be illegal
Round 4
Abortion is not murder. If fetuses dont survive, then humans will survive. Humans were never fetuses.
Miscarriage is not murder. Parents are not responsible for their children.
Pro continues not to back up his points.
Round 5
Pregnancy is not required for humans to exist.
I will conclude with this.
Thank you for the debate. You were a lot of fun.
Thank you for the debate as well. You had some pretty valid points I will say.
"Based on your limited data, it sounds more likely than not that most those women sent to prison for having miscarriages, would have had them regardless of drug use."
No, drugs affect miscarriages exponentially. And fact of the matter is, if they weren't using drugs, and they still had a miscarriage, then they wouldn't be sent to prison.
"Consider that not getting proper pre-natal care results in 5x deaths. Should every grieving mother who did not see the doctor enough during her pregnancy be sent to prison?"
If they had access to it and chose not to be smart and use it, then they should be tried in a court of law.
Having a child is a big deal. You shouldn't just wing it. Because if you do, things like miscarriages are more likely to happen.
25%, vs what percent for drug users?
Based on your limited data, it sounds more likely than not that most those woman sent to prison for having miscarriages, would have had them regardless of drug use.
Consider that not getting proper pre-natal care results in 5x deaths. Should every grieving mother who did not see the doctor enough during her pregnancy be sent to prison?
https://www.womenshealth.gov/a-z-topics/prenatal-care
"While miscarriage is extremely common, occurring in up to 25% of recognized pregnancies,4 prenatal substance use heightens the risk.5 The risks of miscarriage for each individual woman depends on the specific substance being abused and the amount and frequency of use."
https://lagunatreatment.com/support-for-women/increase-risk-miscarriage/
Two questions...
In what percentage of cases does drug use cause/coincide with miscarriage?
In what percentage of cases do miscarriages occur without drug use?
forgot to tag.
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/09/01/they-lost-their-pregnancies-then-prosecutors-sent-them-to-prison
"But many medical experts say the causes of miscarriage and stillbirth are complex and often unclear, and there isn’t scientific proof that using methamphetamine or other drugs causes pregnancy loss. Healthy babies are delivered every day to people who used drugs while pregnant."
How can you trust an article that says doing hard drugs while you are pregnant actually does not affect miscarriages?
https://lagunatreatment.com/support-for-women/increase-risk-miscarriage/
Fetus is easily damaged by all sorts of things.
Needs more awareness.
Had you read the article in question, you wouldn’t have posted that.
"All tested positive for drugs."
It was a miscarriage caused by drugs. Still the mother's fault. Not accidental.
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/09/01/they-lost-their-pregnancies-then-prosecutors-sent-them-to-prison
"Interestingly, women are occasionally already sent to prison for accidental miscarriages."
Care to elaborate?
The law is on my side. Miscarriage is murder.
Interestingly, women are occasionally already sent to prison for accidental miscarriages.
What you say is true. However, I cant agree with you because it goes against my position in a debate.
people will still do abortion in dangerous ways even though the government bans it.
abortion should be legal for peoples' safety
I should definitely listen to your advice. It will make me rich.
You gotta be a little bit less blatant with the trolling - it's too obvious rn.
Ok Autistic Austin.
Check your PM's, I sent you a message
Ok budget Korea
I care a lot about being original. My life depends upon it. Thats why I cry when people dont treat me originally or name me after terrible movies.
That's ironic coming from you.
Lets us all feel sorry for you now because your name isnt original.
Wow, you're so original. Not like I haven't heard that one a hundred times.
Yes, lets cry for you sleepy version of austin powers.
It's a real shame that I miss all this low-hanging fruit while I'm asleep...
This isnt about cancer. But just like miscarriage, having cancer should be illegal and people who get cancer should be punished. Again, nothing to do with miscarriages.
Outlawing cancer is redundant at best. They will still die even if you do nothing.
Are you suggesting that not offering cancer treatment when demanded should be decriminalized, or are you suggesting that treating cancer should be illegal?
Cancers should be illegal. However, this debate is about miscarriages and abortions and if they should be punished or not. My position is yes, they should be punished. Baby died and someone has to answer for that.
Outlawing miscarriages. Might as well outlaw cancer, since we can’t treat them lol. /ss