Instigator / Pro

Sum1hugme

1627

rating

debates

66.22%

won

Topic

#3966

The God of the Bible Probably Doesn't Exist

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 2 votes and with 10 points ahead, the winner is...

YouFound_Lxam

Tags

Religion

Parameters

Publication date: 12.15.2022 04:49PM
Last updated date: 03.05.2023 07:49PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Two weeks
Max argument characters: 12,000
Voting period: One month
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

YouFound_Lxam

1472

rating

debates

45.59%

won

Description

BOP is shared

Pro - The God of the Bible Probably Doesn't Exist
Con - The God of the Bible Probably Exists

God - the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
Bible - the Christian scriptures, consisting of the Old and New Testaments
Probably - almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.
Exist - have objective reality or being.

Round 1

Sum1hugme

12.23.2022 04:39AM

Pro

Thank you to my opponent for accepting my challenge.

The god of the bible probably doesn't exist. The god of the bible lacks any evidence to warrant consideration of his existence, lacks any explanatory power, and cannot overcome the problem of evil.

Firstly, the god of the bible has as much evidence for his existence than any other character in fiction. There is no true argument where the conclusion is "the god of the bible exists."

Secondly, phenomena the bible attributes to god, such as the existence of the universe and biodiversity, can be explained in natural terms, without the invoking of the supernatural.

Finally, the god of the bible is, conceptually, all-loving, all-powerful, and all-knowing. The most glaring objection to this is the problem of evil. The fact that evil exists, means that one of these qualities must be false. If one of these qualities is false, then god, as the bible describes, does not exist. There exists evil in the world, therefore, either god is not all-loving, not all-knowing, or is powerless to stop it. A god with the qualities listed would stop unfair abuses of people, such as rape. But rape exists, therefore, the god of the bible must not exist.

In conclusion, there is no evidence for the god of the bible, naturalism explains phenomena better, and the problem of evil demonstrates the impossibility of a god with the qualities the bible demands.

YouFound_Lxam

12.23.2022 08:37PM

Con

Thank you Sum1hugme for posting your argument.

If I (Con) prove that there is a high change/probability that the God of the Bible exists, then I win.

We first have speculated the possible existence of a God in order to move on. With this simple example I can do that.

Imagine there is a circle. This circle contains all possible knowledge. All the sciences and all the arts, basically everything that is and could be possibly known exists in this circle. Humanity itself would not be able to fill in that circle with the knowledge that we have today, in fact we wouldn't even be able to fill half of it. So, it is possible that the knowledge we haven't yet discovered, is proof of God himself. So, it more than likely possible that God exists in that sense.

Now we move on to proving that the God of the Bible exists.

Faith

Now faith itself doesn't help to prove the likelihood of the existence of God, but the idea itself does.

There are many scriptures in the bible that talk about faith in God, one of the more prominent ones, being 2 Corinthians 5:7.

2 Corinthians 5:7: "For we live by faith, not by sight. (Hebrews 11:6) And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

If Christians suddenly came out with hardcore proof of Gods existence, that even atheists couldn't argue against, then that would be horrible. Of course, something like that is very unlikely to happen. But if it did, then that would cause everyone to believe in God, only because of factual proof, and not faith alone. They would only want to be saved for their own convenience, and not the reason that God would want them to.

By a multitude of Christians having faith, and the Bible sticking true to this narrative, it helps to prove the God of the Bible's existence even more.

History

A lot of scholars and historians agree that Jesus was in fact a real person and lived the life that the Bible described. Even Roman historians like Pliny and Tacitus, (who we have proved to be real people) who had some level of hatred for Christians can verify that Jesus did exist.

3 pieces of historical evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ - Big Think

"Roman historians Pliny and Tacitus also wrote about Jesus Christ about 20 years after Josephus’s book. The “Annals” by Tacitus from AD 115 mentioned the Roman prefect Pontius Pilate executing Jesus, alluding to crucifixion, and placed that event within the timeframe that agrees with Christian gospels. As you can also see in this excerpt, Tacitus was not a big fan of the Christians:
“Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called “Chrestians” by the populace,” wrote Tacitus.” Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.”"

But this is not all. There are also eyewitness testimonies to Jesus's existence.

10. Eyewitness Testimony in Mark’s Gospel | Bible.org

I will save the rest of my arguments for my next post.

Round 2

Sum1hugme

01.06.2023 08:37PM

Pro

Forfeited

YouFound_Lxam

01.08.2023 05:41AM

Con

Pro forfeited.

Vote Con.

Round 3

Sum1hugme

01.22.2023 05:41AM

Pro

Forfeited

YouFound_Lxam

02.03.2023 03:28AM

Con

Vote pro.

Melcharaz

03.05.2023 07:49PM

you can say "is" its not an impossible proof. impossible to you and your logic? perhaps. but thats what debates are about. attempting to convince someone of something they dont accept/believe.

but that would mean you have no desire to regard God as existing or provable. How strange.
it just means you want to find a new way to not believe in him to satisfy your ego.

AustinL0926

12.17.2022 04:49AM

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@Sum1hugme

I'd object to that - "probably" implies a strong likelihood, more than just "greater than 50%."

Sum1hugme

12.17.2022 04:44AM

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@AustinL0926

That's just a verbose rendition of the resolution.

AustinL0926

12.16.2022 03:51AM

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@Sum1hugme

A better way to say it might be, "On balance, it is more likely than not that the God of the Bible does not exist."

Sum1hugme

12.16.2022 02:36AM

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@samuel

It's more difficult to argue that it "is" true, because that would shoulder an impossible burden of proof

samuel

12.16.2022 02:21AM

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@Sum1hugme

Just be aware that it is difficult to argue with the word "probably," because it inherently implies that the opposite may be true.

Sum1hugme

12.16.2022 02:17AM

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@samuel

The best our knowledge of god's existence can say is that it's likely or unlikely, because certainty on this topic is impossible.

samuel

12.16.2022 02:11AM

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@Sum1hugme

"Probably" is not a strong argumentative word. You can't argue with the word "probably" because it implies that the instigator is unsure of their view, or, that there is possibility that they are wrong. If you are sure of your view, I would recommend removing the "probably."

Barney

02.21.2023 06:14AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Forfeiture.

AleutianTexan

02.08.2023 04:28PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

I'm voting on a forfeit.