Instigator / Pro
0
1500
rating
10
debates
35.0%
won
Topic
#3958

My view: Abortion Is Wrong. Con's view: Abortion Is Right

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Winner
0
2

After 2 votes and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...

AustinL0926
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Two weeks
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Winner selection
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
2
1636
rating
33
debates
93.94%
won
Description

Abortion is wrong because it is murder. Abortion is the killing of unborn and in some cases newborn babies. Prove me incorrect.

Bumpskis

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@AustinL0926

Apologies for the forfeits

Wrong and illegal are different. I think premarital sex without a vasectomy is wrong. I don’t believe it should be illegal though.

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@AWonderingPhilosopher

If the semantics is your main concern, why not create a new debate by challenging Austin directly and rally the court of public opinion to your side?

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@AWonderingPhilosopher

After careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion that passive-aggressiveness is the best aggressiveness.

First of all, THERE IS NO OFFICIAL DICTIONARY FOR THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE - something I verified with five minutes of research. Unless you have a reason that Merriam-Webster's dictionary is less reliable than Oxford's dictionary, then you're just making stuff up for the sake of an argument.

Second of all, when did I say "con should argue it is right for women to maliciously kill their child"? If you're going to call me a supporter of malicious child-killing, then I'm going to call you a [REMOVED BY USER REQUEST - MOD].

Third of all, yes, debates have no official ruling structure. This doesn't mean that voters can interpret the debate however they want. Your strawman is so easily knocked over that it's pathetic.

If you can't understand the concept of burden of proof, something so simple that I've explained it to 6th graders who have no experience in debate, then it really is hopeless trying to talk to you.

PRO is making a controversial claim. By default, he has to prove that controversial claim - I don't have the responsibility to prove it wrong. Yes, my opponent needs to do the work. If he didn't want to do that, then he shouldn't have affirmed such a controversial claim: "abortion is murder." Obviously, proving that wrong is easier than proving that right. How is it my fault that my opponent chose an unbalanced topic? (No hate to you Skipper, you seem like an OK guy).

I am not setting the rules - I am setting my framework for how I believe I will win the debate. Voters don't have to agree with me, but I guarantee you that almost all of them will. I don't have to convince you, someone who doesn't understand basic debate concepts. I have to convince actual voters.

Ok, rant over. Peace out.

I was thinking about conceding, but these comments keep things interesting. My argument will most likely be up by the end of the week.

Oh boy, this is going to escalate. 😂😂😂

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@AustinL0926

"this is a widely accepted standard of debate, and votes on this site are moderated. Any experienced voter will rule on my favor when it comes to this point."
Did you even read my comment? These debates have no official ruling structure or a way to regulate rules even if it did, so it doesn't matter what everyone does; ruling decisions have to be agreed upon by the participants of the debate, not just inserted by one side. There is no official win condition, but you said what you need to do to win while also saying your opponent needs to do all the work. if this is how you regularly debate, i can see why Sir.Lancelot would think you are so good; not hard to win when you are setting all the rules.

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@barnes

"Got to say, the malice definition is more fair for this debate, since it gives pro a fighting chance. Whereas the legal one only applies in highly oppressive counties." - To pick an incorrect definition to help one side of a debate is an extremely poor debating technique, i don't see why any definition other than the official definition should even be considered.
If abortion = murder and murder requires malice, then you are saying con should argue it is right for women to maliciously kill their child.

Called what

Called it

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@Skipper_Sr

Don’t even know the guy personally. I’m only aware that his debate skills are top-tier.

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@Sir.Lancelot

I think you worship AustinL0926. After reading this comment, you’ll probably post yet again out of arrogance and/or devotion to Austin. You probably can’t contain yourself, so I’ll just be waiting for your less than mature response

(Hmmm… unless he doesn’t respond… I hope it’s not passive-aggressive either…)

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@Skipper_Sr

You cannot escape your fate by postponing the inevitable.

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@Skipper_Sr

Alr

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@AustinL0926

It’s safe to say I’ll be using the majority of the two week period to create a debate response

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@Skipper_Sr

Any ETA on your R2? I'm leaving on a short trip soon, so I just want to know if I'll have time to respond to your argument before I leave.

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@AWonderingPhilosopher

I tried to warn you.

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@AWonderingPhilosopher

The experts have spoken

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@AustinL0926

Merriam-Webster is more sporting.

There’s sound arguments to show malice, but none to prove legal is secretly illegal.

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@Barney

Sorry, I don't quite understand - are you saying the Oxford or Merriam-Webster definition is more fair?

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@AustinL0926
@AWonderingPhilosopher

Got to say, the malice definition is more fair for this debate, since it gives pro a fighting chance. Whereas the legal one only applies in highly oppressive counties.

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@AWonderingPhilosopher

1. It's not a false dichotomy - "right" in this context isn't referring to whether abortion is a good thing (in an ideal world, we would have zero abortions). It's referring to whether morally speaking, abortion is justified, which I think it is.

2. You're entitled to your own opinion, but the wonderful thing about neutral votes is that voter neither has to listen to you or I. By the way, I'm not just making this up - this is a widely accepted standard of debate, and votes on this site are moderated. Any experienced voter will rule on my favor when it comes to this point.

3. "Premeditated malice" has a very different meaning in law than in common usage. Premeditated malice is when you deliberately act to cause harm to someone - regardless of intentions. Please do some basic research.

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@AustinL0926

1.) " Obviously, if I think abortion is not wrong, then the only other option is that I think it is right. This is self-evident, and is implied, regardless of whether it is explicitly stated in the resolution or not." to assume there can only be two options is a false dichotomy, you can be neutrally law-abiding, meaning you think it's bad if the law says it be, or good if the laws deem it so
2.) " When someone makes a statement that challenges the accepted status quo, and particularly when they are the one to start the argument, then the BoP is on them, regardless of the claim their opponent is defending." such a bold statement that can hold no weight in a free debate setting like this where there are no pre-established rules nor any officials to uphold any sort of rules even if there were rules, it is left to those partaking in the debate to decide, yet once again, you are attempting to establish rules one-sidedly.
3.) "and with premeditated malice” this line is what makes it a very different definition and an easy one for you to use in this debate as it is hard to say a mother is killing their unborn child out of malice

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@AWonderingPhilosopher

1. Obviously, if I think abortion is not wrong, then the only other option is that I think it is right. This is self-evident, and is implied, regardless of whether it is explicitly stated in the resolution or not.

This doesn't change the fact that the BoP is on my opponent. When someone makes a statement that challenges the accepted status quo, and particularly when they are the one to start the argument, then the BoP is on them, regardless of the claim their opponent is defending.

My opponent is not just making an unpopular claim, but an extreme one; not only does he say that abortion is wrong, he tries to prove this by claiming that abortion is murder. In these circumstances, it's very justified for me to place the burden of proof on him.

Additionally, it's a moot point, considering I proved that abortion is not murder anyway.

2. See above - the burden of proof is on my opponent. If you've ever been in a formal debate, you would know that the side affirming the resolution must prove the resolution, while the side negating it can either prove the resolution wrong, or negate the evidence provided by the affirmative.

3. It's literally the same definition - both have the same three key elements:
-killing of a human
-unlawful
-premeditated

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@AustinL0926

I have 3 main problems with your argument;
1.) "The burden of proof falls squarely on my opponent" false, due to the fact the claim you are defending is "Abortion Is Right" to prove abortion is not wrong still does not show it is right either; that will be deriving "ought" from "is".
2.) "The winning conditions are different for each side, as a result of this burden of proof. My opponent must provide convincing and sufficient evidence to prove his claim. I must refute my opponent’s evidence. Crucially, I do not have to prove the topic wrong – I only have to prove that my opponent has not proved it right." why are you the one to determine how you win the argument? Surely, such a shortcut lacks any form of logic.
3.) I find it interesting that we are communicating in the English language; however, instead of using the official dictionary for the English language (oxford), you use a dictionary where the definition of murder is more stringent, and easier to rebuttal in this argument specifically.
"the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another." - oxford dictionary

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@Sir.Lancelot

Sorry, but out of curiosity, how old are you?

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@Skipper_Sr

Just read his post in the 1st round.

Now consider he’s only using 1% of his power.

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@Sir.Lancelot

How is AustinL0926 “just too good”?

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@Barney

Yes, I've heard of that - it's one of the things that inspired my argument, along with oromagi vs vici a few months ago.

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@AustinL0926

Interestingly, a few women have been sent to prison for unplanned miscarriages.

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@AWonderingPhilosopher

I might have given him the benefit of the doubt, but after this brief interaction, I’m convinced now more than ever that I’m right.

Oh dear... what happened while I was at school?

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@Skipper_Sr

I’m saying credibility isn’t necessary to argue my point.

HOW did you misinterpret that??????

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@Sir.Lancelot

“I don’t need credibility.”
I’m bored now.Sir Lancelot claims to be above the need to argue for his points. Ironically posted on a debate website

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@Sir.Lancelot

Why not wait for a few rounds before throwing around such claims? As the philosopher, David Humes said, there is no principle at work when making an inductive inference, no matter how forceful.

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@AWonderingPhilosopher

It has nothing to do with Skipper personally. Austin is frankly, just too good.

Skipper could have utilized months of prep and study time, and it still wouldn’t make a difference.

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@Skipper_Sr

I don’t need credibility. The results will eventually prove my point for me.

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@Sir.Lancelot

Care to elaborate on why you predict it so?

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@Sir.Lancelot

It does lessen the credibility of your statements concerning debates, seeing as you have no experience debating according to your account

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@Skipper_Sr

My lack of credentials will have no effect on Austin’s victory in this debate.

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@Sir.Lancelot

"Having Skipper debate Austin is too big of a mismatch.

The latter is going to make quick work of this discussion."

This coming from a user that has no debate credentials on their account

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@Intelligence_06

Could you please elaborate further?

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@Skipper_Sr

Anytime, I am always happy to help.

Having Skipper debate Austin is too big of a mismatch.

The latter is going to make quick work of this discussion.

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@Intelligence_06

I am confused by what you mean. My opponent is arguing against pro-life

We don't need to argue. As soon as a strict pro-lifer walks in to the Con position the claim is proven false. Con wins with victory. That is how the wording sounds like. Luckily(or disappointingly) both parties didn't see this.

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@Skipper_Sr

Sorry for the slightly delayed argument - will have it up by tmrw morning hopefully

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@AWonderingPhilosopher

That was insightful. Thank you

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@Skipper_Sr

The most effective way I am aware of to debate using logic and not rhetorical ploys (appealing to emotion instead of reason) is to present a valid deductive or a forceful inductive argument; your opponent does the same, e.g. an argument can hold a modus tollens structure (if P then Q, not P therefore not Q) and the opponent has to disprove 1 of the premises because in logic if the conclusion does not follow by logical necessity from the premises (in this case if P then Q is the premise), then the entire argument is flawed and holds no weight, which is why I was expecting to analyse the entire argument to spot the structure and flaws, however, this does not mean your strategy is wrong either as I only attacked the lack of premises due to how solid your starting point was. I hope I was able to make some sense.