1529
rating
1
debates
100.0%
won
Topic
#3889
Wage gap is not real
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 8 votes and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...
Cosmic
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 2
- Time for argument
- Two days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
1890
rating
98
debates
93.37%
won
Description
The wage gap, stating in a feminist movement that women get paid less then men, I am trying to debunk.
Round 1
You might find this hard to believe. After all, the idea of women making about $0.78 for every dollar earned by men has been drilled into us throughout our lives. You may dismiss it as an undeniable truth that no one in their right minds would ever question.
But question it, we should. Let's start right at the beginning and examine the problem with how it's calculated.
You may think that the gender pay gap is determined through a complex set of equations which considers the following:
- The occupation one holds,
- Their rank in their organization,
- How long they've worked there,
- The education level they had to attain to do the job,
- How many hours they work in the average week
Truly though, it is simply calculated on a basis of averages. What is the average income of men, then women. They do not take into account how many women are working, or if they take time off.
For example, are women taking gender majors in college or engineering? You must also take into account that men take jobs such as coal mining, where women are either unwilling to preform or lack the physical abilities.
You must also ask, did they have children? and if so, when the children went to school, did she still work full time or leave the job to be more flexible?
I await your response.
Forfeited
Round 2
Forfeit, really?
Apologies for forfeiting.
Framework
- With the burden here on pro, he seemingly fails to present
- Pro defines the wage gap in the description as a statement that "women get paid less than men." Now there could be various reasons for the statistical disparity, but pro seems to admit throughout the debate that women do lay at the end of it, conceding the debate.
Truly though, it is simply calculated on a basis of averages. What is the average income of men, then women. They do not take into account how many women are working, or if they take time off.
- So here pro concedes the resolution by showing that women do get paid less than men on average. As con, I simply remain agnostic as to the reasons for this because pro has affirmed rather than "debunked," that women get paid less than men.
Epistemology
- Pro provides no sources for any of his claims. Having the full burden of proof, thus, his lack of evidence defaults the argument to con. Postulating random and sporadic factors and unsubstantiated theories does not justify the claim either. With pro having conceded that the wage gap is real, the debate draws to a clear-cut close.
Conclusions
- Pro has the burden of proof here and cited no evidence for any of his claims. This indicates no reason to believe them.
- Pro's argument goes along the lines of "women get paid less than men because of x,y, and z un-evidenced theories." This however already admits that women get paid less than men which is what he defined as a wage gap: "stating in a feminist movement that women get paid less then men." Thus, pro concedes the debate proposition by admitting the wage gap is real, and the debate otherwise goes to con for his lack of evidence.
Not even close, though it was substantial.
Is this the record for most reported votes in one debate?
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>Reported Vote: AustinL0926 // Mod action: Not Removed
>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
>Points Awarded: 3 points to Con, 1 point to Pro
>Reason for Decision: See Voting Tab
>Reason for Mod Action:
The voter refers to an portion of the debate (in this case, the description) that he believes inherently functions as a concession of the debate before any argument is given. He also directly addresses Pro's arguments, dismissing them as irrelevant. That is sufficient.
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>Reported Vote: Public-Choice // Mod action: Not Removed
>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
>Points Awarded: 3 points to Con, 1 point to Pro
>Reason for Decision: See Voting Tab
>Reason for Mod Action:
The voter points to an portion of the debate (in this case, the description) that he believes inherently functions as a concession of the debate before any argument is given. While some assessment of Pro's argument would have improved this vote, since the purported concession is present in the description, doing so would apparently not have affected the voter's decision, so this is sufficient.
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>Reported Vote: RationalMadman // Mod action: Not Removed
>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
>Points Awarded: 4 to pro.
>Reason for Decision: See Votes Tab.
>Reason for Mod Action:
The vote was found to be sufficient per the site voting policy standards.
The vote describes a final round blitzkrieg, and review of the debate supports this as a wholly objective interpretation. That the voter added extra details, does not invalidate this glaring issue which was the foundation of their vote.
https://info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy#cheating
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>Reported Vote: Intelligence_06 // Mod action: Removed
>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
>Points Awarded: 1 to pro, 5 to con.
>Reason for Decision: See Comments Tab.
>Reason for Mod Action:
The vote is mostly fine, but the explanation of sources reduces it to literally a fluff vote.
Sources are optional and if awarded require a strong quality lead. Sources go to the side that better supported their case with relevant outside evidence and/or analysis thereof. If both sides have done their research due diligence, these points are usually tied.
A side with unreliable sources may be penalized, but the voter must specify why the sources were unreliable enough to diminish their own case (such as if the other side called attention to the flaws, thereby engaging with sources in a more effective manner with impacts to arguments; thereby flipping the source and harming the opposing argument).
The voter acted in such a way to suggest they did not give fair weighting to the debate content.
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Intelligence_06
Added: 4 hours ago
Reason:
Unless I am partially blind, the topic statement would only be true if on average women do earn the same as men(or more), across all occupations, women and men considered alike. The Wage Gap as a concept also needs to be stated by a feminist movement as a myth, as a requirement in Pro's attempt at definition. This was not fulfilled by Pro, which fails to uphold his own BoP in reference to the confinements set up by Pro the instigator himself.
Pro CONCEDED that under some circumstances and interpretations, women may be seen statistically as earning less, and the latter part of the Pro R1 argument is saying why "Although the wage gap exists, Women are not seen as less competent individuals in society" as paraphased, although I am unsure if Pro will deny or not. Pro's argument also requires external evidence(for example, "You may think that the gender pay gap is determined through a complex set of equations which considers the following"), which Pro fails to provide any, not links nor any directional redirections to help us find it.
On the other hand, Con's argument required no external evidence and he pointed out the lack of sources and the blatant concession on the other faction.
Args to Con. Sources to Con because although neither had sources Pro is the one that desperately needs it while Con is not. Conduct to Pro for Con forfeiture.
I report intel for the sources point allocation.
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>Reported Vote: Athias // Mod action: Not Removed
>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
>Points Awarded: 4 to pro.
>Reason for Decision: See Votes Tab.
>Reason for Mod Action:
The vote was found to be sufficient per the site voting policy standards.
The vote describes a final round blitzkrieg, and review of the debate supports this as a wholly objective interpretation. That the voter added extra details to help con improve, does not invalidate this glaring issue which was the foundation of their vote.
https://info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy#cheating
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If you have an issue with my "competence," then by all means, report my vote to a moderator or solicit more votes as is your prerogative. I stand by my vote.
You should vote here, given that an incompetent person cast a vote against me.
The wage gap theoretically is negligible currently. However, the reality, if we assume the existence, depends on statistical amounts. If we find any one instance where women are being paid less than men for doing the same work at any stage of society ever, the "not real" part is negated.
A bit of friendly advice before you get targeted by those who are just trying to bolster their positions on the Leaderboards:
Think clearly and critically about the resolution. So for example, on the subject matter you've brought up, is it that there's no wage gap? Or does the POLITICAL NARRATIVE on the wage-gap lack context? Furthermore, you may also want to consider whether the stance of which you are a proponent creates a semantic advantage. If you don't communicate clearly your premises, and how your extensions of them service your resolution, then your arguments may be chum in the water for the sharks here looking for their next meal.
With all that said, welcome, and I wish you luck.
What RM said
change it to pay gap or salary gap and I will accept.
Wage gap doesn't exist, you are correct. I know what wage vs salary is.