Illegal Immigration

One recent estimate by researchers at the Pew Hispanic Center puts the number of illegal aliens in the workforce at 8 million out of an overall population of 11.2 million illegal aliens, i.e., 71.4 percent.1 That estimate is generally accepted as reasonable. [3]

David Frum of The Atlantic, no hard-core immigration opponent, wrote in 2015 that as of 2011, there were 25,000 illegal immigrants serving murder sentences, and nearly 3 million offenses committed by illegal immigrants between 2003 and 2009, including 70,000 sex crimes and hundreds of thousands of other violent crimes. “After years of welcome decline,” Frum pointed out, “crime rates are rising in immigration hubs including Houston, Milwaukee, Phoenix, and San Diego.” Former Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo reported in 2015 that between “2008 and 2014, 40% of all murder convictions in Florida were criminal aliens. In New York it was 34% and Arizona 17.8%. During those years, criminal aliens accounted for 38% of all murder convictions in the five states of California, Texas, Arizona, Florida and New York, while illegal aliens constitute only 5.6% of the total population in those states.” [4]

They are significantly less likely to commit crime then native born Americans(NBAs).(1)(2)  The main exception for this is coming into the country illegally, and stepping foot into a foreign country is a trivial crime that should not be punished by deportation.  

They pay taxes(3).  The ones that commit tax evasion should under the current law be charged for this, not being in the country illegally.

While most don't know English, a solution to this could be forcing them to assimilate in English classes that they pay for out of their own pockets.  This way, it's not free education, since they would pay for it.  If they refuse to assimilate, then they continue to pay for the classes.  If they can't afford it, then they pay for it in labor by building solar panels in the South West US desert.  This way, we benefit from the immigrants and they assimilate too since they don't want to work on solar panels for the rest of their lives.  We can also sell the excess energy to other places, therefore providing them with renewable energy.

Although they take jobs, they also create them in the form of businesses.  The jobs they do take are because they tend to be better then native born americans at them.

The population increase is necessary for some invasion policies that I want, but I digress.

Although some illegals get free education, the ones that do are assimilated and these assimilated immigrants would down the road, pay for the education of others.  Non assimilated ones would get assimilated as I pointed out in bullet point 3 and they would pay for other people's education without receiving any education themselves.

“It lowers the minimum wage because there is a higher supply of workers”  I thought conservatives like us wanted to keep a low to no minimum wage. I have separate reasons for this, but the minimum wage amount has less to do with worker supply and more to do with policies enacted by the government

”It takes jobs from people who were born here:”  They also create jobs(1).

“One recent estimate by researchers at the Pew Hispanic Center puts the number of illegal aliens in the workforce at 8 million out of an overall population of 11.2 million illegal aliens, i.e., 71.4 percent.”  We need the workforce numbers as we have an aging population and the US population would be declining if it weren’t for immigration. If your pointing to their high unemployment rate, this can be solved by the government providing them with a different job.  I have some ideas. If they are unemployed, you would accuse them of being lazy. If they have a job, you would accuse them of taking people’s jobs. Either way they would face an accusation.

“David Frum of The Atlantic, no hard-core immigration opponent, wrote in 2015 that as of 2011, there were 25,000 illegal immigrants serving murder sentences, and nearly 3 million offenses committed by illegal immigrants between 2003 and 2009, including 70,000 sex crimes and hundreds of thousands of other violent crimes.”  Just because some illegals commit violent crimes does not mean you punish the whole illegal population. It would be like me punishing all gun owners for the crimes of only a few of them. Either way, punishing an entire group for the actions of a few individuals is Social Justice, which is a left leaning ideology.  I don’t support Social Justice for anyone, gun owners or illegal immigrants. Can you justify the inconsistency?

“Stepping foot into a foreign country is not the only crime illegal immigrants break.”  Cis.org is a far right source according to 2.  Also most if not all of those crimes would be less prevalent if illegals were allowed to stay within the US.

“In addition, all these deaths [5] could have been prevented if we did a simple thing such as enforce our border.”  If their homicide rate is lower than NBAs as what my sources have stated, then they are safer. If it’s more, you still don’t judge the group because of a few murderous individuals.  The concept of punishing a whole group for the actions of a few people in that group is Social Justice, something we both hate and I imagine most of the voters would hate as well.

“they still commit murder and violent crimes that could have all been prevented.”  NBAs also commit murder. Do we deport all legal americans as a punishment for the actions of a few?  No. You have yet to adequately explain why we should treat illegals worse then NBAs.

"They may pay taxes, but they pay way less than what it takes for the government to have them in this country”.  They don’t pay much in taxes because they are poor. If they were allowed to live and work within the US, then they would get a good job and pay more taxes. There are many Americans who don’t pay taxes, or pay some taxes, but not enough to subsidize their existence within the US.  Should we deport all those who don’t pay taxes because they aren’t rich enough?

“This is irrelevant and fallacious in many ways. First of all, the problem isn’t that they don’t know how to speak English. It’s that they are in the country illegally.”  What’s wrong with being in this country illegally? If you answer, “because they are here illegally” then saying that (being illegal is bad because it’s illegal) is circular logic.

“working in the desert against their will is basically slavery”  It wouldn’t be against their will. If they don’t like it, they can move back to Mexico or whatever country they came from voluntarily rather then forced deportation.

“would violate the 4th and 13th amendment.”  The 4th amendment is, “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”  How does it violate the 4th amendment?  The amendment is about being searched, not about working on a government project.  It does not violate the 13th amendment because they are consenting, therefore the servitude is voluntary.  As I said before, if they don’t like it, they can go back to their home country.

If they can't afford it, then they pay for it in labor by building solar panels in the South West US desert.  

“It would also be opposed by somewhere like the SPLC or ACLU and the UN would probably block it.”  Actually, if the workers are consenting as I pointed out earlier, then the UN would probably see it as a way to put clean energy in the US and would approve the practice.  The SPLC and ACLU would approve it, seeing it as a pathway to citizenship. They wouldn’t be working too long. Only enough time to pay for their food, shelter and assimilation fees and if they wanted to work more for more money, that was their choice.  I estimate that they would be working about 4 hours a day at most in order to pay the above expenses. Once they are done with classes and working, the rest is essentially free time.

“Pro provides no proof for this but even if it were true”  (1)
“Again, it is not currently in the law and therefore is not a reasonable argument for illegal immigration.”  The US has an aging population and our reproduction is below replacement level (3).  We need immigrants to keep our population up.  They can help bring up our population along with legal immigrants.  If someone comes into the country illegally, they should be assimilated within American society.  This does not mean American society assimilates for them, but they are to assimilate within American society.  Granting a pathway to citizenship seems relatively useless if they were DACA because they are usually not a threat to American society since they lived their childhood in the US.  Do you support deporting DACA personnel even though they are about as American as us? As for non DACA illegals, they should be assimilated but not deported.