Instigator / Pro
8
1480
rating
4
debates
12.5%
won
Topic
#3826

China is the rightful owner of Taiwan

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
9
Better sources
2
6
Better legibility
3
3
Better conduct
3
2

After 3 votes and with 12 points ahead, the winner is...

RationalMadman
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
1
Time for argument
Two weeks
Max argument characters
30,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
20
1702
rating
574
debates
67.86%
won
Description

No information

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@RationalMadman
@Barney
@M.H.S

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>Reported Vote: Barney // Mod action: Not Removed
>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
>Points Awarded: 3 points to Con

>Reason for Decision: See Voting Tab

>Reason for Mod Action:

Under the Foregone Conclusions section of the voting policy:

"For debates in which any reasonable person would know the argument outcome from barest of skimming, they may rightly be declared a foregone conclusion and held to a somewhat lower standard when voting against the dolt. Effectively, if one side does not give enough of a topical argument to weigh, then there is no need to write a more detailed vote than their lack of a case.

While the sufficiency standard clearly points to appeals to the quantity of arguments not being enough, someone with a single line assertion against a warranted case with sources simply does not merit the same level of consideration. "

This debate meets this standard, as the degree and extent of argumentation is clearly and demonstrably distinct. The vote is sufficient in that the voter pointed out that this was a foregone conclusion and awards argument points on that basis.
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Actually I got the history slightly wrong but it is not relevant. Taiwan's enemy was Mao but they never admitted he won to later admit he was couped. That is how it worked... lol

I forgot to attribute this source:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762689

for my second-last (big) quote. Sorry.

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@Barney
@K_Michael
@BearMan
@Intelligence_06
@Public-Choice

vote if you wish, thanks if you do.

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@M.H.S

i just established that UN recognition didnt mean anything in regards to defining a state

the matter is that u just said the PRC had the right to invade the ROC, another sovereign state.

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@BearMan

You are making a false equivalence with Taiwan and Ukraine. Ukraine is a country recognized by UN. Taiwan is not.

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@RationalMadman

Gosh you don't even have to do the debating, someone else decided to do it for you!

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@M.H.S

"China has ruled Taiwan for centuries. Taiwan decided to leave China a few decades ago, but China never approved." also:

Again, the PRC has never ruled over Taiwan. The ROC was given de-facto control of Taiwan after WW2.

"I believe that China has the right to reclaim or annex Taiwan."

How would china have the right to annex another state? would u also agree that Russia had the right to annex Ukraine?

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@M.H.S

The ROC is recognized by a few nations, and customary international law dictates that recognition has little to no effect on a territory's/state's sovereignty.

ur argument is confusing bc it is unclear which state u mean when u reference "China"

If u mean that China is the PRC, ur explantion of history is off, because the PRC did not exist b4 the resolution of WW2. Your argument that China is the rightful also falls flat, because the PRC has never, in a single point in history, controlled the island of Taiwan.

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@BearMan

ROC is the same thing as Taiwan's government. So yeah, Taiwan was ruled by ROC after WW2, although China did not want that. But technically, Taiwan is not a recognized nation, so people consider it as part of China. But that doesn't do much because China still can't do whatever it wants in Taiwan.

Also, I realize that I made a mistake by writing "decades". Taiwan left China in 1895, and became part of Japan roughly 220 years after becoming part of China. After the end of the Japanese Empire, there was a struggle between China and Taiwan over who rules Taiwan. If you don't believe this, you can check the Wikipedia page about the history of Taiwan.

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@M.H.S

You are conflating the PRC with the ROC. They are not the same entity.

Taiwan is an island, it isn't a state. "Taiwan wanted to become independent" is completely false. After WW2, Taiwan was ALWAYS under the de-facto rule of the ROC. Taiwan never "wanted to become independent" after WW2 (we can get into Taiwanese independence movements later, but the ROC as a country never declared anything like that).

You said: "Taiwan decided to leave China a few decades ago, but China never approved." This is false and is based on nothing. Again, no country of Taiwan ever "decided to leave China" after WW2.

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@BearMan

The Qing Dynasty ruled Taiwan for almost 300 years. In 1895, Taiwan left China and became part of Japan. After the end of WW2, Taiwan wanted to become independent. However, China wanted Taiwan back. What part of that do you see as false.

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@M.H.S

"China has ruled Taiwan for centuries. Taiwan decided to leave China a few decades ago, but China never approved."

???????
did u even bother researching the topic yet

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@M.H.S

Then the topic is a falsism. You believe China SHOULD be the owner of Taiwan. The topic on the other hand would be disagreed by even most Chinese people.

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@Intelligence_06

I understand that Taiwan is not yet fully part of China, but I believe that China has the right to reclaim or annex Taiwan.

That is, internationally, most countries consider Taiwan a part of China.

As a literal Chinese, I can confirm that China does not “own” Taiwan just yet, the reunification will come as planned in a couple of years. That is when the Chinese government truly own Taiwan.

China has ruled Taiwan for centuries. Taiwan decided to leave China a few decades ago, but China never approved. China could rightfully reclaim Taiwan whenever it wishes.