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Topic
#3541
Jesus Christ was God in the flesh.
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The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 1 vote and with 1 point ahead, the winner is...
Mall
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- Last updated date
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- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- One week
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- One month
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
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1467
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Description
Disclaimer : Regardless of the setup for voting win or lose, The aim of this interaction, Is for those that view it, Learn and or take away anything that will amount to any constructive value ultimately. So that counts as anything that'll cause one to reconsider an idea, Understand a subject better, Help build a greater wealth of knowledge getting closer to truth. When either of us has accomplished that with any individual here, That's who the victor of the debate becomes.
Highly don't think it's disputable but in case they're those that believe otherwise, here it is.
The scriptures teach that Jesus Christ, the Son of God is the Father, Father God in the flesh.
We'll going through some scriptures, line upon line and everything else to prove all things .
Let's take our time to harmonize the book.
Any questions, remarks , send a message or comment like always .
Round 1
The bible teaches Jesus Christ, Son of God is God in the flesh.
Catch that I didn't say the Son of God is God but The Son is God is God in the flesh.
There's a difference. We're talking about the constitution of this being.
Ok, some scriptures to look at and not gloss over , I have four. Remember to harmonize the text. This is not a war throwing script balls back and forth between opposite sides.
To start with, First Timothy chapter three.
There we read in verse :
"16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
God was manifest in the flesh. What flesh?
2 Corinthians 5:
"19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."
In the flesh of Christ.
These first two passages are concerning the context of God in the flesh revealing godliness and that flesh or vessel being a vehicle for it as well as for reconciliation.
The next two passages will explain the exhibition of godliness .
In John 5 :
"19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."
The Father doing things in that flesh is what was manifest, what's revealed to others .
Also in the same book in chapter 14:
"10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
Basically the scriptural language of what I just said. The Father working in that flesh, in that being in that person.
That person being who?
Jesus Christ.
This person or this being is God on the inside with the flesh of this being on the outside.
So what makes up this being?
The Spirit of God in that body in the Son.
The scripture also gives the name of Immanuel/Emmanuel meaning God with us.
Forfeited
Round 2
I won't be adding too much more to this point of God in the flesh or in the person of Jesus Christ, but here's a look at John.
"1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. "
The Word was God. In the beginning there was God. What happened to God or with God?
"14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
The Word, God was made flesh. How?
Hebrews 2
"14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same"
Now we're getting into the taking on the nature of flesh . That is Jesus Christ the Son. The context of chapter 2 is dealing with that.
Follow up with verse :
"16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham."
That's the flesh. The flesh of who?
Of he that took part in nature of .
Now who's the "he"?
I'll leave that question there for the other side's answer.
They already have a handful to respond to if they shall ever reply.
The bible can't be used to make a scientific argument because it's not a scientific document. In fact there many contradictions. Here are a few:
The Sabbath Day
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8
“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5
The Permanence of Earth
“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4
“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10
Seeing God
“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30
“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18
Using the bible to make an argument is like using a non-witness on the witness stand to make a case.
Round 3
"The bible can't be used to make a scientific argument because it's not a scientific document. "
So why take this challenge if you deliberately will not comply with conditions of this debate?
Saying this only indicates you can't prove opposite of what my position is.
You're just coming on here ruling out something. You could of just said this in the comments without participating.
This debate has rules. If you don't want to abide by them then this challenge wasn't for you .
"Using the bible to make an argument is like using a non-witness on the witness stand to make a case. "
So this debate is over. Regardless of your beliefs about the Bible, that's besides the point. The point wasn't to come on in and discredit a book . The point was to use the book to prove opposite of the topic, showing God was not in the flesh of Jesus Christ.
You have not proven such.
I admittedly didn't read the rules thinking the rules would be common sensical. My arguments are not based on the bible. No, I don't care to use the bible to debate you. Sorry to waste your time.
Round 4
We got two more rounds here.
Do you at least want to give it a try?
You can Google search for sites that try to teach from scripture that Jesus Christ the begotten Son was just the Son of God.
Forfeited
Round 5
The debate is over.
Forfeited
Welcome to the site!
Albert Einstein wrote to Gutkind, 'the Bible a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can (for me) change anything about this. '
There's also 10 or more other sects of Christianity outside of those two. For every catholic argument there is, i can just use a scholar such as meister Eckhart who takes this perspective into question. Which he got put on trial for, by the way. You cant question the dominant perspective, which in itself is in large part why it is the main sect, its far less forgiving than the Quakers for instance. Spread through the sword. These debates don't go far, as they're wholly about interpretation. Any argument can be argued for in the bible, pro slavery, no slavery? you can argue anything.
I know plenty of protestants who disagree with the topic, it is only certain states of America that have cut the lime such that protestants are pigeonholed into 'pure' trinitarianism as opposed to seeing Jesus as an independent son.
Why did Jesus say, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
I have a feeling the voting population will be my down fall.
If you win this debate, Debate me on it. We will see how easy it is, there's a reason Catholicism isn't the only sect of Christianity.
This counter will be easy
There are 2 opposing views that use the scripture to justify it:
1) Jesus was a chosen, special son independent from God sent to be the true prophet.
2) (Islamic and Jewish perspective) Jesus was a slightly deluded messiah of sorts who genuinely was in touch with the real God but had misunderstood his purpose, overestimating it.
So will you be arguing that the scriptures say that Jesus was God? Because that isn't really disputable. Now whether or not the Bible is a reliable or accurate source, that's something that can be discussed.
I agree.