Instigator / Pro
ComputerNerd's avatar
7
ComputerNerd
1518
rating
15
debates
40.0%
won
Topic
#3293

Minecraft is better than any other sandbox game

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
6
Better sources
4
4
Better legibility
2
2
Better conduct
1
2

After 2 votes and with 7 points ahead, the winner is...

RationalMadman
Tags
Games
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
One week
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
Two weeks
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
RationalMadman's avatar
14
RationalMadman
1702
rating
574
debates
67.86%
won
Description

RULE: You must state your game before you accept the debate.

Round 1
ComputerNerd's avatar
ComputerNerd
Pro
#1
Hello RM, I look forward to a informative debate. 

Definitions:

Minecraft: the proprietary name of a sandbox video game with construction, crafting, exploration, and combat mechanics, available on many game platforms. (dictionary.com)
Roblox: Roblox is an online game platform and game creation system developed by Roblox Corporation. It allows users to program games and play games created by other users. (wikipedia.org)
Better: more desirable, satisfactory, or effective. (Oxford Languages)
Sandbox Game: A sandbox game is a video game with a gameplay element that provides the player a great degree of creativity to interact with, usually without any predetermined goal, or alternatively with a goal that the player sets for themshelves. (wikipedia.org)

Arguments:

1. Minecraft is a one time purchase.

Now, this doesn't sound like an argument at all, but I'd like to point out, if you download Roblox, they offer cosmetics and premium maps if you're willing to shell out $5 every month for an allowance of Robux, a digital currency added to trick little kids into emptying their parents pockets.

I know this feature is optional, and there is plenty of other options, but compared to Minecraft, which is one purchase of $24.99 gives you access to everything the community has made, including servers, singleplayer, and free downloadable maps from websites like planetminecraft.com.

2. Customizable gameplay.

Roblox has one client to play on.... Roblox. No customization, no ability for additional features, and moderately optimized.

Minecraft has a huge abundance of custom clients, including Optifine, a big optimization client, and more commonly used than the default Minecraft Launcher.
They also have a wide variety for different setups and purposes.

3. Driven by your desires.

Minecraft is a game where you can do whatever you want. You can play with friends, strangers, or by yourself. You can build whatever you want, do whatever you want, and use whatever you want to do anything. 

In Roblox, you have less control over what you play. You play whatever the community makes, and have set goals and targets. 

I'm going to end it here, since I'm writing this during online class.

On to you RM
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
Con
#2
Roblox has one client to play on.... Roblox. No customization, no ability for additional features, and moderately optimized.
This has to be the biggest lie in Pro's case. In fact everything except discussion of the payment method in Pro's case is absolutely fallacious and lie-based.

I am going as far as to say that Pro is arguing in entirely bad faith and will save proof of it for my Round 2, call it bad conduct if you want to but I will prove to you that Pro is the liar here.

To put this into perspective for you, Roblox is so insanely vast and flexible in what you can do that when Squid Game came out, gamers were playing the Roblox version(s) that either had the balls to risk being taken down for copyright and called 'squid game' or which went for names like 'hexa game' (and since Crab Game came out on steam, Roblox has made free alternatives).

Minecraft is corrupt, only the children of the well-off can afford a game like that. What parent is gonna pay $30 for their little children to play just one type of game that they may dislike? It's a much more healthy pay model for children to let them try it out for free with their parents and then decide if they wish to pay for Robux and spend on things in the game.

I also think you'll find that Roblox has not only been around longer, it's just the OG sandbox game of this era. Sure, minecraft has found its niche and dominated the market and aimed at popular streamers but Roblox is so good it doesn't even have to sponsor streamers, to my knowledge. 

In Roblox you, if you're a creator, can make any game genre you can dream of pretty much (just have to be careful about copyright if it's in any way a remake). You imagine it? You can make it, it's a question of time, effort and skill. I'm talking through from paintball to roleplaying casual games to solo-played obstacles courses (but which you can do with friends if you want to).

It's a brilliant game also because, unlike minecraft, if you're lazy and don't feel like building, you can just be a player and explore other people's imagination and brilliance in a really healthy ecosystem where both as a player and creator, you contribute to ensuring the best games in it stay alive and reward the creator.
Round 2
ComputerNerd's avatar
ComputerNerd
Pro
#3
Rebuttal:

To put this into perspective for you, Roblox is so insanely vast and flexible in what you can do that when Squid Game came out, gamers were playing the Roblox version(s) that either had the balls to risk being taken down for copyright and called 'squid game' or which went for names like 'hexa game' (and since Crab Game came out on steam, Roblox has made free alternatives).

Minecraft is corrupt, only the children of the well-off can afford a game like that. What parent is gonna pay $30 for their little children to play just one type of game that they may dislike? It's a much more healthy pay model for children to let them try it out for free with their parents and then decide if they wish to pay for Robux and spend on things in the game.
Point 1:
This was a defense to the point in which I said:

Roblox has one client to play on.... Roblox. No customization, no ability for additional features, and moderately optimized.
My definition of a client, when connected with gaming, means

A game client is a network client that connects an individual user to the main game server, used mainly in multiplayer video games. - Wikipedia
Therefore, this defense is flawed, seeing as I never mentioned maps or individual creations. What I was arguing was that Roblox has no custom launcher, or opener. There is just the default. Minecraft has many different clients, which can all be focused towards different things.

Point 2:


There are many ways to experience Minecraft without paying for it. Minecraft released an old version on the web so they can test building mechanics. They can download the free trial and see if they like it. They can watch videos, ask their friends, talk with their parents, and buy the game knowing whether they want it or not. 

It's a brilliant game also because, unlike minecraft, if you're lazy and don't feel like building, you can just be a player and explore other people's imagination and brilliance in a really healthy ecosystem where both as a player and creator, you contribute to ensuring the best games in it stay alive and reward the creator.
*Headslap

Ok.... Minecraft has something known as SERVERS. On the SERVERS, you can experience what other people have done, what they have created, and experience your own fun for whatever you want. 

hypixel.net, cubecraft.com, lunar.gg, minemen.club.
All the afore mentioned servers have a store in where you can donate money to them in exchange for ingame perks. For example, donating 5$ to Hypixel will give you:
 
- Pets
- Flying in the lobbies
- No chat cooldown
- Aiding Server Experience

In comparison, there is currently no store on Roblox to support creators. The only thing they can do is donate robux, and that isn't that worthwhile. 

I also think you'll find that Roblox has not only been around longer, it's just the OG sandbox game of this era. Sure, minecraft has found its niche and dominated the market and aimed at popular streamers but Roblox is so good it doesn't even have to sponsor streamers, to my knowledge. 

Syllogism:
1. Streamer plays Minecraft
2. Streamers viewers get interested
3. More people play Minecraft
4. More people play Minecraft and Stream.

A prebuttal

  • Less Ability for User Creation



RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
Con
#4
Minecraft has basically one client, just like Roblox. Each instance of a game on Roblox is hosted on a 'server' so this is a moot point that Pro brought up. The key thing is that Roblox lets you tweak your client (graphics settings, speed of mousemovement etc) rather than have multiple 'pay to unlock' server types in 'packs' that you need to pay for. It also has something called Roblox studio: https://www.roblox.com/create which is the client for Roblox that helps creators (though you are indeed able to 'create' inside of your own game server, via editing tools, the 'create' client is very helpful for collaboration efforts where only the owner/admin is granted full access to editing on the main client).

In fact, this is what makes Roblox so incredible, you have collaborative efforts to create. The epitome of sandbox gaming is probably where the most range (agreeing with pro) of both types of creator and player can create the biggest range of games themselves inside of the sandbox environment. In Roblox, whether you're a coding expert (or only good at coding a certain thing/genre of gaming), a costume and graphics designer, a rich person with a dream of a game or an expert marketer (of course even a musician as it's not always easy to get good copyright-free music that you can use on a game where you will be gaining in-game income from its success), you can contribute to the beautiful gaming ecosystem there and make it great.


^ 2 classic examples of how true collaboration gets initiated there.

In minecraft, you need to not only pay for extra packages to unlock your 'full creativity' but the most important issue with it is that the only thing you can create is a place that's 'designed' or which is 'digging oriented'. You don't make actual interactive, creative games much inside of minecraft, you just make worlds to explore with your buddies that at times have a bit of interactive digging and TNT blocks to light a fuse and 'explode' to unlock more inside a world. In Roblox this 'exploration genre' is only one of many.


Roblox has so many genres (and many subgenres in each genre) and that doesn't even begin to explore the graphics.

The graphics in Roblox originally could be argued to somewhat poke towards Lego and almost could have ended with copyright claiming but minecraft graphics are... Well, limited in many respects.

Here is a minecraft block and character:


This is almost comedic... except that's what Pro is defending as the epitome of sandbox gaming.

Now, I will show you the range of terrain and characters you can get in Roblox (short answer; anything you can imagine almost if your designs are skilled enough to 'bend' at different angles in the game)

this is of course photo-edited to fuse them all together but all of these characters 100% are able to function interactively inside Roblox:


Not just that, let's look at terrain:



Again, let's look at minecraft terrain:

Do you see that extra realism in Roblox?

If it comes to range and quality of sandbox gaming, Roblox isn't paralleled by Minecraft at all.

More importantly, the economy of in-game currency in Roblox is designed to reward better game creators via genuine purchases made by the players. It even lets game creators and players both themselves financially benefit (so earning back part of what they invested if they paid) by enabling creators to put videos in the page of their games (encouraging views and advertisers) as well as of course the streamers streaming high quality games.

Let's look at some roblox games streamed:


Pewdiepie and Jacksepticeye on squid game roblox game:
Round 3
ComputerNerd's avatar
ComputerNerd
Pro
#5
(Me, looks at this argument)
Me: This is the worst argument I have ever seen.


Okay, I am sensing severe misconceptions about Minecraft. My veteran mind is so mad right now, so I'm going to pick apart every single defense until it's worth nothing. 

MISCONCEPTION #1
Minecraft has basically one client, just like Roblox. 

MISCONCEPTION #2
rather than have multiple 'pay to unlock' server types in 'packs' that you need to pay for. 
What in your right mind made you think this idea. All servers come free with the game, it's just a matter of normality. As long as the server is whitelisted, someone who bought Minecraft can play on it

REBUTTAL #1
 https://www.roblox.com/create which is the client for Roblox that helps creators (though you are indeed able to 'create' inside of your own game server, via editing tools, the 'create' client is very helpful for collaboration efforts where only the owner/admin is granted full access to editing on the main client).


While Minecraft doesn't have built in mod creator, you are able to take the communities mods and use them for your own creations.

In fact, this is what makes Roblox so incredible, you have collaborative efforts to create. The epitome of sandbox gaming is probably where the most range (agreeing with pro) of both types of creator and player can create the biggest range of games themselves inside of the sandbox environment. In Roblox, whether you're a coding expert (or only good at coding a certain thing/genre of gaming), a costume and graphics designer, a rich person with a dream of a game or an expert marketer (of course even a musician as it's not always easy to get good copyright-free music that you can use on a game where you will be gaining in-game income from its success), you can contribute to the beautiful gaming ecosystem there and make it great.
How is this any different from Minecraft?

MISCONCEPTION #3
In minecraft, you need to not only pay for extra packages to unlock your 'full creativity' but the most important issue with it is that the only thing you can create is a place that's 'designed' or which is 'digging oriented'. You don't make actual interactive, creative games much inside of minecraft, you just make worlds to explore with your buddies that at times have a bit of interactive digging and TNT blocks to light a fuse and 'explode' to unlock more inside a world. In Roblox this 'exploration genre' is only one of many.
(Servers go brr)

Here is a list of game modes on the most popular Minecraft server: Hypixel.


MISCONCEPTION #4

Here is a minecraft block and character:


This is almost comedic... except that's what Pro is defending as the epitome of sandbox gaming.
You took the most common block in Minecraft, and the DEFAULT skin of the game, and say that this is the limit of the graphics. 

An example of the actual limit of Minecraft's graphics

MISCONCEPTION #5
this is of course photo-edited to fuse them all together but all of these characters 100% are able to function interactively inside Roblox:


Not just that, let's look at terrain:



Again, let's look at minecraft terrain:
Do you see that extra realism in Roblox?
*Headslap

This is blatant cherry picking. To properly put together an argument, you must research about the best of your opponents, not their worst. I admit Roblox has good graphics, but are not superior to Minecraft in anyway.

More importantly, the economy of in-game currency in Roblox is designed to reward better game creators via genuine purchases made by the players. It even lets game creators and players both themselves financially benefit (so earning back part of what they invested if they paid) by enabling creators to put videos in the page of their games (encouraging views and advertisers) as well as of course the streamers streaming high quality games.
You yourself admitted:

Sure, Minecraft has found its niche and dominated the market and aimed at popular streamers but Roblox is so good it doesn't even have to sponsor streamers, to my knowledge. 
The 2nd statement is idiotic. I have countered this argument already, and I quote:
Syllogism:
1. Streamer plays Minecraft
2. Streamers viewers get interested
3. More people play Minecraft
4. More people play Minecraft and Stream.
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 1


Oh look, two people who jumpstarted Minecraft go to check this new fad. How the heck is this related to your argument. 

Conclusion:
I have meticulously picked apart RM's entire argument. Please note how he did not respond to some of my arguments and was overall pretty biased in the making of his argument.
Please, someone who understands both games vote properly with care and attention.

Thank you RM, for letting me unleash my inner veteran Minecrafter.

VOTE COMPUTERNERD
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
Con
#6
In order to win the debate, my opponent has brought forth brand new evidence, points and even insults in the previous Round.

Let's observe.

The biggest thing is that the opponent has tried to show the 'upper limit' of Minecraft graphics but let's be clear here, Roblox is on par and more importantly what pro showed is extreme for minecraft (he failed to show you how unpleasant the characters appear to be). Furthermore, the strangest things have been Pro's focus of attack until this final Round. Previously, Pro was making a big deal about 'single client per session' for Roblox, yet Minecraft also lets you play with the same client each time... That's how you play it, it loads the software. Unlike with Minecraft, Roblox doesn't make you pay to unlock different clients for different devices, it's all 100% free, no catch.

Again, unlike in Minecraft where you pay and than just build, mine, explore, roblox has all of that and so many more interactive genres. To make an interactive game in minecraft, the participants need to heavily roleplay and vocalise things to make it work, in Roblox the game itself can be orchestrated such that strangers can join and genuinely interact in either a fighting sense, survival sense or whatever else.

On top of genre range, the sheer level of what you can design and program in Roblox as a collaborative team is phenomenal. Pro had resorted to berating me, even saying:

The 2nd statement is idiotic. I have countered this argument already, and I quote:
Syllogism:
1. Streamer plays Minecraft
2. Streamers viewers get interested
3. More people play Minecraft
4. More people play Minecraft and Stream.
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 1
But Roblox was interesting before Internet streaming was even a remotely mainstream thing. It's been around since September 2006 and already in 2008 it had gained a fanbase amongst younger people to play and older people to program/build (now it attracts a variety but predominantly still aims at a younger audience, as do all sandbox games for they suit their style of creative gameplay).

I am unsure what exactly Pro is trying to tell me here. What I think Pro misses is that Roblox runs on real-world capitalism as its actual in-game business model for entrepreneurial game designers. It lets you as a free-to-play engager, choose what you purchase in-game, what you unlock and which clothing for your character or whatever else like that is worth your in-game currency (which you buy with real money or by getting people to visit, like and favourite your games/clothing).

This is brilliant because it actually motivates each member of it to be better, build better and do better while absolutely letting casual designers and games remain cheap/free to play and chilling with their buddies.

The range of Roblox is such that, as of 2022, Roblox has 43.2 million daily active users worldwide. It's safe to say that covid driving us all inside helped all online game platforms but let's be clear here: this was an increase from 19.1 million daily active users by the end of 2019.[same source]

That's over double in fact it's over 2.5 multiplied just but how many users it's gained and snowballed its retention of. Minecraft however doesn't even mention its 'daily player' stats almost anywhere online, instead it flexes that it has 141 million amassed overall users (that are predicted to be monthly). Roblox, on top of that daily player has amassed around 190 million average monthly players in 2021, 

So, let's be clear here, Pro is saying Minecraft got more popular than others by sponsoring streamers (I actually didn't really back it up and can't be sure they do but Pro never denied it). Roblox, however, lets the ambitious and competitive game creators and hosts themselves fund the streamers to play their game if they wish to, etc. Even letting them get revenue on ads that display in their game's main page (and rewarding them with in-game currency if their game gets popular and well-liked).

Roblox is the better sandbox game because it has many more genres, a fairer reward system and it's free-to-play while pay-to-unlock/reward good creations instead of 'pay this tiny fee of $30 and then it doesn't matter what you do'.