Instigator / Pro
0
1449
rating
14
debates
35.71%
won
Topic
#3130
America is systemically racist
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After not so many votes...
It's a tie!
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
0
1498
rating
5
debates
50.0%
won
Description
Systemic racism definition: Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is a form of racism that is embedded through laws and regulations within society or an organization. It can lead to such issues as discrimination in criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power, and education, among other issues.
Round 1
- Systemic racism definition---"Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is a form of racism that is embedded through laws and regulations within society or an organization. It can lead to such issues as discrimination in criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power, and education, among other issues." First off statistics indicate 61-80% of black overrepresentation in prisons can be explained by higher black crime rates, with the unexplained portion largely attributable to racial bias.
- Remember - the factors which lead to disproportionate criminality amongst black Americans are also in large part a product of racial bias. Underfunded public programs, redlining, generational poverty, bad schooling, and myriad other factors which influence criminality can also be traced to racial bias.----https://www.sentencingproject.org/wp-
- Extensive document on racial biases in our criminal justice system---https://www.sentencingproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Black-Lives-Matter.pdf
- NOW onto the topic of biases in stops searches and arrests
- While White & Black Americans admit to using and selling illicit drugs at similar rates, Black Americans are VASTLY more likely to go to prison for a drug offense.
- In 2002, Black Americans were incarcerated for drug offenses at TEN TIMES the rate of White Americans.
- Today, Blacks are 3.7x as likely to be arrested for a marijuana offense as Whites, despite similar usage.
- 97% of “large-population counties” have racial biases in their drug offense incarceration.
- Militarization fails to enhance police safety or reduce crime but may harm police reputation
- Police militarization does not lead to a decrease in crimes committed or officer injuries, may actually increase both.
- Police militarization (including the adoption of SWAT teams) decreases public trust in police, which may contribute to increases in crime.
- Militarized police are disproportionately deployed in African American communities, even when accounting for crime rates.
- This ACLU report reviews 5 months’ of data from DC police stops & searches by race and outcome.
- The black population of DC is 25% greater than the white population, but black people were 410% more likely to be stopped by the police than white people
- This disparity increases to 1465% for stops which led to no warning, ticket or arrest and 3695% for searches which led to no warning, ticket or arrest.
- This data indicates the disproportionate stopping and searching of blacks in the DC area extended massively beyond any disproportionate rate of criminality.
- Between 2011 and 2015, black drivers in Nashville’s Davidson County were pulled over at a rate of 1,122 stops per 1,000 drivers — so on average, more than once per black driver.
- Black drivers were also searched at twice the rate of white drivers, though — as in other jurisdictions — searches of white drivers were more likely to turn up contraband.
- Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Sentences ---- Examination of federal data indicates Black Americans spend about 10% more time in prison when compared to comparable Whites who commit the same crimes.
- Additionally, Black arrestees are 75% more likely to be charged with a crime carrying a mandatory minimum sentence.
- Prosecutors contribute massively to this undeniable racial bias.
- Government aggregate of data on plea and charge bargaining.
- “Studies that assess the effects of race find that blacks are less likely to receive a reduced charge compared with whites.”
- “Studies have generally found a relationship between race and whether or not a defendant receives a reduced charge.”
- “The majority of research on race and sentencing outcomes shows that blacks are less likely than whites to receive reduced pleas.“
- In short, collected data strongly indicates a racial bias against blacks with regards to sentencing and plea bargains.
- Implicit Bias-----Photos of capital inmates shown to entry-level criminal justice students for them to evaluate the trustworthiness of the faces.
- Students rated pictures of light-skinned inmates as more trustworthy when they preceded pictures of dark-skinned inmates.
- Most study participants (79.9%) were white, but the study predicted that this wasn’t a major factor - “When controlling for race, no statistically significant result was found. This suggests that each race, White and non-White, were consistent in their rating outcomes. Prior research has found similar results, where Whites and light-skinned Blacks are likely to share similar attitudes towards darker-skinned Blacks”
- Black Boys Viewed as Older, Less Innocent Than Whites, Research Finds
- Students and police officers participated in tests to determine levels of racial bias and perception of innocence.
- Black boys as young as 10 are more likely to be considered criminal or untrustworthy, and more likely to face police violence.
- Police officers were tested on dehumanization of blacks by comparing people of different races to animal groups. Police who engaged in higher levels of dehumanization were more likely to use violence against black children.
My opponent states "various" ways in that America is systemically racist. They are:
1) Blacks are more likely to go to jail and receive harsh sentences than whites.
And this is pretty much his only reason for why America is systemically racist.
By this logic, we would assume the following organizations are also systemically racist:
1) Hockey teams, as hockey players are disproportionally more likely to be white. There Are Only 43 Players of Color in the NHL. Three of Them Play for the Red Wings -- a Historic First | WDET states there are only 43 non white players in the NHL. Given that there are at least 20 players in the NHL per team and there are 30 teams, this means that there are roughly 600 players in the NHL. Since non whites make up 37% of the country, you'd expect 222 of these players to be minorities.
2) NASCAR events, as NASCAR events have drivers that are more likely to be white.
3) Basketball teams, as NBA players are disproportionally more likely to be blacks.
4) Rock music, as rock and roll artists are more likely to be white.
5) Rap music, as rap music is disproportionally more likely to have minority artists.
In order for Pro to be consistent, he would have to believe that not only is America more racist for having more black prisoners relative to the US population, but that the sports leagues and music genres I mentioned above are also systemically racist for allowing more of one race to be in their league. Whites are more likely to enjoy hockey, NASCAR, and rock music. Blacks are more likely to enjoy basketball and rap music. In America, different racial groups prefer different things. This isn't due to racism, but it's because culturally, black Americans have an inheritely different culture (not inheritely better or worse, just different) than white Americans.
To put it simply, there are lurking variables that explain why blacks tend to be more likely to end up in jail. Some of these lurking variables are:
1) Blacks are more likely to grow up in single motherhood homes and this makes them more willing to do crimes. In 1987, single motherhood was much more rare than it is now. Despite that, in 1987, 70% of people in jail grew up without both parents in the house (4). Now in 2021, it's safe to say that with single motherhood on the rise(5) that this proportion of people in jail that grew up in single motherhood homes would be even higher than this. People that grow up in single motherhood homes are more likely to grow up in poverty (escaped by 2 stable parents providing income for the family), more likely to lack discipline (which is often administered by a father as a mother often lacks the strength and the willpower to discipline her kids out of mothers loving their children more than fathers do generally combined with less physical strength), more likely to drop out of school (because fathers help their kids a lot with HW). In a single motherhood home, a kid can ask a mother for help with HW, but if the mother doesn't know the content, the kid is stuck. If the kid has a dad and the mother doesn't know the HW, the kid can refer to the Dad for help. Since single motherhood youth don't have a dad, they often drop out of school. This makes single motherhood kids (who tend to be black) more likely to be poor as a result, and more likely to commit crime that ends them up in prison. This is why I am a huge advocate against single motherhood, because it harms the youth.
2) Blacks are more likely to live in urban areas, and urban areas have more police per capita that are able to arrest more people for crimes. There are pros and cons to living in an urban area, so I'm not telling black people to move out of urban areas. But living in an urban area (which blacks are more likely to do) is going to cause them to commit more crime.
3) Blacks are more likely to live in poor areas (like the deep south) and poor people are more likely to commit crime such as theft to survive. The south also has more police which makes arrests more common, and this incidentally causes more blacks nationwide to be arrested merely because they are in a more authoritarian part of the country. Some blacks may like the south, so if they don't want to move to a northern place where crime is less common, that is their choice.
A black person living in rural New England with 2 parents when they were a kid is less likely to end up in jail than a white person living in the urban south who grew up in a single motherhood home.
I would ask Pro, "What about black people makes them more likely to end up in jail?" He may respond, "Blacks have more melanin in their skin, so this makes people biased against them." If this was the case, then Asian Americans would be fairly likely to end up in jail than whites as Asians have more melanin in their skin(especially Indians). Yet this is super rare because although Indians and other Asians generally live in urban areas, they grow up in 2 parent households and they tend to live in wealthy parts of the country where crime is going to be more rare. Because of that, the incarceration rate of darker than white Asians is super small (• Jail incarceration rate by race U.S. 2019 | Statista).
Round 2
Con has ignored all of my points and only latched onto black people are more likely to go to jail.
Blacks are more likely to grow up in single motherhood homes and this makes them more willing to do crimes
this is actually untrue a study did show 70% of black mothers are single but their definition of single was unmarried. (https://www.givelegacy.com/resources/the-truth-about-black-fatherhood/).
Blacks are more likely to live in urban areas
yes this is true furthermore black people are more likely to live in poorer areas with low funded schools thus more likely to drop out. This is because redlining and segregation still has effects on society today. just because they don't happen anymore this doesn't mean it doesn't affect people. if your about to have a race with someone and shoot them in the knee you will likely win, ten years later you still will probably lose because it has lasting effects.
Blacks are more likely to live in poor areas
Yea this is true........ But why do they live in poorer areas? its Simple, because only 60 years ago segregation happened this put more black people in poorer areas and then redlining happened this made people put less funding into poorer areas (where black people lived) but then all this stopped. but, black poverty was never fixed black people were still in low funded areas and still are today. con hasn't addressed anything else i have said notice how ignored everything about implicit bias and 80% of what i stated.
Con has ignored all of my points and only latched onto black people are more likely to go to jail.
I summed up what your points were. You mentioned getting pulled over in post 25, you mentioned jail sentences in post 30. Your 51st post is about black people and the police. I summed up all your points into:
Blacks are more likely to go to jail and receive harsh sentences than whites.
Which is very similar to saying, "The criminal justice system (cops, judges, etc) treats blacks disproportionally worse than whites". This claim summarizes ALL of your bullet points as to why you think America is systemically racist.
this is actually untrue a study did show 70% of black mothers are single but their definition of single was unmarried. (https://www.givelegacy.com/resources/the-truth-about-black-fatherhood/).
This is true, but if your definition of "single parent" is, "parents who aren't married" then black mothers are more likely to be single parents than white mothers.
But if the definition of "single parent" is, "a parent who raises their kids by themselves" then black mothers are STILL more likely to be single parents than white mothers.
Of those 50.7 million children living in families with two parents, 47.7 million live with two married parents and 3 million live with two unmarried parents.
So the vast majority of youth that grow up with both parents have those parents married to each other. Regardless of your definition of a, "single parent", the data shows that black youth tend to grow up in single motherhood homes way more frequently than whites and this explains why blacks are more likely to commit crime and go to jail, among other lurking variables.
Blacks are more likely to live in urban areasyes this is true furthermore black people are more likely to live in poorer areas with low funded schools thus more likely to drop out.
blackpopulation_uscensus.jpg (874×528) (michiganradio.org) states that blacks in the United States, with the exception of the south east United States (they haven't moved out of the lack of will to move out of the south, not because they are poor), are pretty integrated with the rest of the country. If a black family wanted to move to a rich area, they are free to do so. Income mobility in the US is pretty high(Socioeconomic mobility in the United States - Wikipedia). If your born in the bottom fifth of the economy, there is a 57% chance you have significant upward mobility (and an only 7% that you will have significant downward mobility). Black Americans as a whole aren't even that poor, they have a median household income comparable to White Canadians(List of ethnic groups in the United States by household income - Wikipedia), (Canada GDP Per Capita 1960-2021 | MacroTrends). This high income funds schools that are pretty good for teaching black youth (assuming they were segregated which is rarely the case in practice and if it is the case, it's only because blacks stay where they are instead of moving to better areas).
If you don't have 2 parents in the home to help you with HW, it doesn't matter how well your schools are funded, you are going to have a harder time with learning the HW. You don't see white Canadians dropping out of school at the same rate you see black Americans, and both schools are funded comparably. You see blacks dropping out of school because they often don't have 2 parents to help them out with school, while the White Canadian youth often have 2 parents helping them out with HW. I do believe in 2 parent privilige and white people are more likely to have this privilige, but it is not a privilige to be white; it's a privilige to have 2 parents in the home.
if your about to have a race with someone and shoot them in the knee you will likely win, ten years later you still will probably lose because it has lasting effects.
This is an extreme example. A more accurate example would be, "If you are about to have a race with someone and they trip, your probably going to win that race. But the trip will have nominal impact on a race a year in the future" I would argue that segregation was more of a trip for black people and not getting shot in the foot because of the high amount of upward mobility in the United States. As I stated earlier, if your in the bottom fifth of the US economy, you have a 57% chance of significantly moving upward compared with an only 7% chance of moving downward. Expand this to another generation, and you will have a hard time predicting where this poor person would have their grandkids be in 2 generations fiscally. This is also why children from the same family (so they received a comparable amount of advantages) often end up in different places fiscally.
But why do they live in poorer areas? its Simple, because only 60 years ago segregation happened
Segregation 65 years ago is not the justification for poverty now. Indian Americans, and East Asian Americans also endured segregation. Yet Indian Americans (who are comparable in skin tone to Africans) are doing very well fiscally. Asians aren't too different from Indians. Neither group of people saw themselves as victims of racism and they end up successful compared to blacks.
con hasn't addressed anything else i have said notice how ignored everything about implicit bias and 80% of what i stated.
Your main reason that America is systemically racist is because of the claim that the criminal justice system is biased towards blacks, and now your moving into income. I think I have addressed both of these claims.
Sources:
Round 3
This is true, but if your definition of "single parent" is, "parents who aren't married" then black mothers are more likely to be single parents than white mothers.But if the definition of "single parent" is, "a parent who raises their kids by themselves" then black mothers are STILL more likely to be single parents than white mothers.
You clearly did not read the article in the last round that i provided please read it, it includes sources
(they haven't moved out of the lack of will to move out of the south, not because they are poor)
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2018/demo/p60-263/figure1.pdf note: the asian popultation has higher earnings because rich asians moved from asia.
last round you even used them being poor as one of your arguments! The reason they are all in one area is because of redlining!
If a black family wanted to move to a rich area, they are free to do so
No they aren't black people make way less money a quick google search will provide you plenty of studies. instead of telling them to move where they already live should be fixed
if every poor black person suddenly got the money to move to a different area the area they moved to would get overcrowded to many and schools wouldnt be able to take in everyone
If your born in the bottom fifth of the economy, there is a 57% chance you have significant upward mobility (and an only 7% that you will have significant downward mobility)
Black Americans as a whole aren't even that poor, they have a median household income comparable to White Canadians
just because you can compare them to people in a whole other country that is significantly poorer doesn't mean that there aren't huge income inequalities IN AMERICA other countries aren't relevant to this conversation at all
This is an extreme example. A more accurate example would be, "If you are about to have a race with someone and they trip, your probably going to win that race. But the trip will have nominal impact on a race a year in the future" I would argue that segregation was more of a trip for black people and not getting shot in the foot because of the high amount of upward mobility in the United States. As I stated earlier, if your in the bottom fifth of the US economy, you have a 57% chance of significantly moving upward compared with an only 7% chance of moving downward. Expand this to another generation, and you will have a hard time predicting where this poor person would have their grandkids be in 2 generations fiscally. This is also why children from the same family (so they received a comparable amount of advantages) often end up in different places fiscally.
History has a huge effect on today. ill say this again segregation put black people in poorer areas redlining defunded those areas just because it stopped doesn't mean the redlined areas are all of a sudden funded super well. https://www.nccaa.net/post/generational-poverty https://www.nccp.org/publication/childhood-and-intergenerational-poverty/ please read these.
Segregation 65 years ago is not the justification for poverty now.
speaking historically 65 years isn't a long time at all there are still black people alive today who went through segregation your grandma was probably alive when t happened
I won’t be able to respond this round due to summer work. I apologize for this.
Round 4
My opponent cant respond please do not vote in this debate
Waived, my apologies. I would like to thank my opponent for telling voters not to vote on this debate.
Round 5
amogus
Epstein was murdered by our lizard government.
looking back i could have done way better in this debate
"I won't be able to respond the last 2 rounds because of some summer work I have to do." - TheUnderdog
Darn, I was curious how debate would progress.
yea it's all good maybe we can do another debate like this in a few weeks it was a great time debating you
If I did, it was a long time ago.
I won't be able to respond the last 2 rounds because of some summer work I have to do. Are you fine with this?
@TheUnderdog
did you watch the Ben Shapiro video for your response?
there's a really good documentary on Netflix about systemic racism call 13th (i think you can also watch it on youtube for free)
1st comment.