Instigator / Pro
28
1449
rating
14
debates
35.71%
won
Topic
#3121
America is a systemically racist country
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 4 votes and with 20 points ahead, the winner is...
drlebronski
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- One week
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- Two weeks
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
8
1387
rating
34
debates
22.06%
won
Description
Systemic racism definition----Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is a form of racism that is embedded through laws and regulations within society or an organization. It can lead to such issues as discrimination in criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power, and education, among other issues. FORMAT: round 1--- I will go first with my argument and then the con will post his argument the next rounds will just e a normal debate with arguing and debunking others arguments
Round 1
- Systemic racism definition---"Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is a form of racism that is embedded through laws and regulations within society or an organization. It can lead to such issues as discrimination in criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power, and education, among other issues." First off statistics indicate 61-80% of black overrepresentation in prisons can be explained by higher black crime rates, with the unexplained portion largely attributable to racial bias.
- Remember - the factors which lead to disproportionate criminality amongst black Americans are also in large part a product of racial bias. Underfunded public programs, redlining, generational poverty, bad schooling, and myriad other factors which influence criminality can also be traced to racial bias.----https://www.sentencingproject.org/wp-
- Extensive document on racial biases in our criminal justice system---https://www.sentencingproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Black-Lives-Matter.pdf
- NOW onto the topic of biases in stops searches and arrests
- While White & Black Americans admit to using and selling illicit drugs at similar rates, Black Americans are VASTLY more likely to go to prison for a drug offense.
- In 2002, Black Americans were incarcerated for drug offenses at TEN TIMES the rate of White Americans.
- Today, Blacks are 3.7x as likely to be arrested for a marijuana offense as Whites, despite similar usage.
- 97% of “large-population counties” have racial biases in their drug offense incarceration.
- Militarization fails to enhance police safety or reduce crime but may harm police reputation
- Police militarization does not lead to a decrease in crimes committed or officer injuries, may actually increase both.
- Police militarization (including the adoption of SWAT teams) decreases public trust in police, which may contribute to increases in crime.
- Militarized police are disproportionately deployed in African American communities, even when accounting for crime rates.
- This ACLU report reviews 5 months’ of data from DC police stops & searches by race and outcome.
- The black population of DC is 25% greater than the white population, but black people were 410% more likely to be stopped by the police than white people
- This disparity increases to 1465% for stops which led to no warning, ticket or arrest and 3695% for searches which led to no warning, ticket or arrest.
- This data indicates the disproportionate stopping and searching of blacks in the DC area extended massively beyond any disproportionate rate of criminality.
- Between 2011 and 2015, black drivers in Nashville’s Davidson County were pulled over at a rate of 1,122 stops per 1,000 drivers — so on average, more than once per black driver.
- Black drivers were also searched at twice the rate of white drivers, though — as in other jurisdictions — searches of white drivers were more likely to turn up contraband.
- Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Sentences ---- Examination of federal data indicates Black Americans spend about 10% more time in prison when compared to comparable Whites who commit the same crimes.
- Additionally, Black arrestees are 75% more likely to be charged with a crime carrying a mandatory minimum sentence.
- Prosecutors contribute massively to this undeniable racial bias.
- Government aggregate of data on plea and charge bargaining.
- “Studies that assess the effects of race find that blacks are less likely to receive a reduced charge compared with whites.”
- “Studies have generally found a relationship between race and whether or not a defendant receives a reduced charge.”
- “The majority of research on race and sentencing outcomes shows that blacks are less likely than whites to receive reduced pleas.“
- In short, collected data strongly indicates a racial bias against blacks with regards to sentencing and plea bargains.
- Implicit Bias-----Photos of capital inmates shown to entry-level criminal justice students for them to evaluate the trustworthiness of the faces.
- Students rated pictures of light-skinned inmates as more trustworthy when they preceded pictures of dark-skinned inmates.
- Most study participants (79.9%) were white, but the study predicted that this wasn’t a major factor - “When controlling for race, no statistically significant result was found. This suggests that each race, White and non-White, were consistent in their rating outcomes. Prior research has found similar results, where Whites and light-skinned Blacks are likely to share similar attitudes towards darker-skinned Blacks”
- Black Boys Viewed as Older, Less Innocent Than Whites, Research Finds
- Students and police officers participated in tests to determine levels of racial bias and perception of innocence.
- Black boys as young as 10 are more likely to be considered criminal or untrustworthy, and more likely to face police violence.
- Police officers were tested on dehumanization of blacks by comparing people of different races to animal groups. Police who engaged in higher levels of dehumanization were more likely to use violence against black children.
Forfeited
Round 2
My opponent has forfeited this round so i will stay by my original claims
Forfeited
Round 3
My opponent has forfeited
Forfeited
Round 4
amogus
Forfeited
Round 5
This debate is going places
Forfeited
Regean was and is a popular leader. The only person that won 98% of the states while America was a 50 state country. It's not like I'm quoting Hitler. Regan was scared of drugs and I disagree with this fear. But accusing him of being a racist is a stretch, especially when he was more pro immigrant than what any modern democrat has the guts to be. He was a supporter of open borders and this is why he was able to win California and New York in addition to red states.
seriously though fuck you i dont care if it was a joke or some shit jokes can reflect values just like nazis on 4chan make "jokes" about the jews
"calm down, you say it like it was something bad" fuck you
"There is not a single person in the US who has parents or grandparents who were slaves. Moreover the human species is able to recover from past injustice quite well. Otherwise Indian Americans would be failing due to the
British mistreatment a long time ago. Income mobility is very high in the US, maybe not compared to other countries, but it’s still pretty high.
As Ronald Regan said, “The problem with liberals isn’t that they are ignorant. It’s that they know so much that isn’t so.”" incorrect though it is rare people who are alive today had their father as slaves for example https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/07/27/slave-son-racism-george-floyd/ regardless people have fathers who went through segregation!!!!! or grandparetns who went through slavery you also act like segregation wasnt as bad as slavery when it was just as maybe 1 notch less bad. you also quote ronald reagon who imprisoned and incarcerated countless black people by fueling the war on drugs after nixon started it
"They didn't HAVE RIGHTS!! "
calm down, you say it like it was something bad
"We tolerate the people who were denied human and civil rights"
so i have to be oppressed in order to be tolerated?
“ You know that people are still alive whose grandparents were enslaved right?? You do know that there are people whose PARENTS were fucking enslaved?”
There is not a single person in the US who has parents or grandparents who were slaves. Moreover the human species is able to recover from past injustice quite well. Otherwise Indian Americans would be failing due to the
British mistreatment a long time ago. Income mobility is very high in the US, maybe not compared to other countries, but it’s still pretty high.
As Ronald Regan said, “The problem with liberals isn’t that they are ignorant. It’s that they know so much that isn’t so.”
Political disagreement? The fuck? You just tried to compare slavery to general discrimination?? You know that people are still alive whose grandparents were enslaved right?? You do know that there are people whose PARENTS were fucking enslaved? You do realize that the virtual serfdom that existed in the south afterwards was a lot like slavery economically speaking? No other discriminated group has gone through as much, economically speaking - SLAVERY STILL AFFECTS PEOPLE TODAY. And no - I literally never told you shut up, I said I'd be happy if you never talked about this, cuz' you have no idea what you're talking bout, its like things just don't connect in your head!
Also, just stop with the "oh no, the tolerant people don't tolerate racists." Of course we don't, that would be fucking stupid. We tolerate the people who were denied human and civil rights, not the fuck ups who took those rights from them. Also - no - we did the same thing for all the Japanese Americans because of the internment camps, we were just fine after that.
Blacks were slaves 160 years ago, and due to the race gap having a tendency to deteriorate, giving blacks reperations isn't needed and would bankrupt the US. Also, your an asshole for telling me to shut up on the basis of a political disagreement. Your like that Twitter liberal that is so angry at others while preaching tolerance.
Twitter Liberals like yourself: We believe in tolerance, but if you oppose BLM we won't be tolerant to you.
God: I love you, but I will burn you in hell if you oppose me.
Me: Aren't extreme people just so honest?
"Slavery in the past would harm blacks today as much as marital rape laws in the 1960s (when it was legal to rape your spouse) would harm females today. Many groups in the US faced historical oppression. The Irish, Chinese, and Italians faced racism when they came to the US. But they didn't play the victim card, they made something good of themselves and they ceased to be victims. Blacks in the US right now earn a salary comparable to White Canadians. Black people are doing just fine in the US."
False.... while women were oppressed true, same as Irish, Chinese, and to a much lesser extent Italians - black people were discriminated against MUCH worse. What the actual fuck dude? They were held as literal human property! They didn't HAVE RIGHTS!! So no, literally no other oppressed group could compare, of course other groups are oppressed, and we still talk about them! We still talk about women ought to be having more respect in society, and feminist critique is on a rise, LGBT people are on the rise after being repressed for generations; however, none of those groups (as a whole, because obviously there are black women) have suffered as much as black people have collectively, because on top of the whole slavery thing, they had to deal with laws that were as oppressive against them as any other marginalized group -except worst. I would be happy if you literally NEVER spoke on the subject again, jesus christ that was so fucking racist dude. I can't, I'm anger rambling at this point. Go find something to read, please!
y does wylted literally forfeit every debate.
(accidently clicked enter) your excuse for black people having a lower salary is that their similar to people in canada but thats besides the point please read my full argument again and tell me that black people are just fine
first of all, I wasn't talking to you second of all when Irish Chinese and Italians came along they were oppressed but they weren't slaves they didn't go through segregation and redlining never happened to them. rape is completely different and irrelevant. Your excuse for them having a lower salary is
Next time you want me to respond, put my account name as a receiver.
"In contrast, most African Americans can trace their family history back to generations of slavery, followed by a century and a half of systematic racism."
Slavery in the past would harm blacks today as much as marital rape laws in the 1960s (when it was legal to rape your spouse) would harm females today. Many groups in the US faced historical oppression. The Irish, Chinese, and Italians faced racism when they came to the US. But they didn't play the victim card, they made something good of themselves and they ceased to be victims. Blacks in the US right now earn a salary comparable to White Canadians. Black people are doing just fine in the US.
@Wylted are you gonna respond or.........
"But redlining is over (I think) and segregation is over" this is true but they still have effects redlining put black people in poorer neighborhoods. as I said before if you shoot someone in the leg in a race you are probably gonna win, ten years later you don't shoot him in the leg this time you're still probably gonna win because it has lasting effects.
If one is unmarried they can still have a boyfriend or girlfreind
first of all, marriage has nothing to do with discipline if they're not married that doesn't mean their child will commit more crime. "If historical segregation is the cause for modern-day poverty among blacks, then Indians (another dark-skinned ethnic group) would be in a similar situation" almost every time I debate someone about systemic racism this is what they bring up. anyways, "The myth continues to be used as evidence against institutional racism. If Asians can do well, it says, any minority group can, if they just apply themselves. But research suggests that the upward mobility of Asian Americans over the past century is actually a result of post-war declines in labor market discrimination against them as compared to other minorities. Meanwhile, restrictive immigration policies since 1965 have favored and attracted highly educated Asians to the United States. In contrast, most African Americans can trace their family history back to generations of slavery, followed by a century and a half of systematic racism." https://civilrights.org/edfund/resource/stop-pointing-asian-americans-downplay-racism-universities/
"the CDC report did indeed show that black people are more likely to be single BUT their definition of single was unmarried and 70% of black mothers are unmarried---https://www.givelegacy.com/resources/the-truth-about-black-fatherhood/"
If 70% of black mothers are unmarried, then they are going to raise kids that are more likely to commit crime since the kids won't be as disciplined since father figures discipline the most since they aren't as worried about retaliation as much as mothers are.
But redlining is over (I think) and segregation is over. 50 years later, what's causing the black community to fall behind is the absence of black fathers from the home. If historical segregation is the cause for modern day poverty among blacks, then Indians (another dark skinned ethnic group) would be in a similar situation. Yet Indian Americans earn higher salaries than any other ethnic group in the US. Indians don't have as bad of a single motherhood problem; they have more successful people.
This a great video explaining it simply this time its not a rick roll https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrHIQIO_bdQ
"Blacks are more likely to grow up in single motherhood homes" the CDC report did indeed show that black people are more likely to be single BUT their definition of single was unmarried and 70% of black mothers are unmarried---https://www.givelegacy.com/resources/the-truth-about-black-fatherhood/
"Blacks are more likely to live in urban areas" this is true furthermore blacks are more likely to live in poorer areas of urban cities. You have to ask why do black people live in poorer areas and how does this affect them?
The answer to that is: after the civil war ended segregation happened and during and after segregation redlining happened. redlining made it so that low-value areas would receive less funding these were mainly black areas. and then redlining and segregation stopped. But segregation and redlining were still in effect because now black people were in low property value areas thus their school has less funding thus bad education and black people more likely to commit a crime.
And even then black people committing more crime only accounts for 61-80% of more black people in jail. Think of it like this if you're about to have a race with someone but you shoot them in the knee you probably going to win. 10 years later you're having a race with the same person your still probably going to win because getting shot in the knee has lasting effects.
What a lot of people on the left (whether it be on gun control, race issues, or other stuff) is they often forget about lurking variables, ie variables that would explain why for instance blacks are more likely to go to jail than whites. I found 2 lurking variables other than racism that explain why blacks are more likely to go to jail than whites.
1) Blacks are more likely to grow up in single motherhood homes. People that grow up in single motherhood homes are more likely to be in poverty and more likely to be in jail due to the lack of discipline they received as a kid and the poverty that comes with being in a single motherhood home. This is why I believe nobody should be raised in a single motherhood home. It's also why America's prison rate has been going up; because single motherhood is on the rise. People say that America's prison rate is 5x higher than other places because of the war on drugs. Yet drug crimes are only responsible for a minority of crime cases in the US(https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.bM8nD2FPOd9WvNFzkfJO8wHaFj?pid=ImgDet&rs=1). A majority of crimes are violent or property. America's incarceration rate is higher not because America is a tyrannical place, but we got more people doing things that everybody believes should get you in jail. Things like murder, rape, kidnapping, robbery, burglary, arson, property crimes. America's population is more violent.
2) Blacks are more likely to live in urban areas and people that live in urban areas whether black or white are more likely to commit crime because people in urban areas tend to be less happy and frustrated, angry people are more likely to commit crime. Given that there are pros and cons to living in an urban area, I would not be against it for everybody, but one con of living in an urban area is your going to be more frustrated and as a result, your going to be more likely to commit crime. One pro is you tend to earn more money although things are more expensive in cities.
also heres a great video expaining it----https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I have made some edits to the debate i hope you will accept.
fauxlaw i think you underestimate my power
If you want i can go first
Categorically disinterested in entertaining still another identical debate I've already engaged twice as a debater and at least once as a voter. Not interested in another, because:
1. It's been debated to death
2. I simply do not engage debates that have waived rounds. The initiator of a debate needs to have the top frame of the first round, and every round thereafter. The policy states there shall be argument in every round [including rebuttal, and defense], so waiving, to me, is contrary to that policy. If Initiator doesn't have the courage to present argument first. I don't believe the debate should done.
3. In no debate I've had, or seen on this site has the Pro position [that there is systemic racism in America] been able to demonstrate by citation of any current legal statute, federal, state, or local, or government or private industry policy that dictates the acceptance of racial animus. If Pro wants to argue that it once was so, there's plenty to demonstrate, but the resolution is always given in present tense, meaning current conditions, not historic.
4. If the initiator cannot define terms, I refuse to do it for the Initiator.
5. 3,000 characters is too few to engage a subject this complex.
Looks like it could be an interesting topic, though I don't like the resolution's language. If it said something more like "America is a systemically racist country." I'd be more interested in negating.
I could go as low as 5k characters, but I'd prefer 1 week of debate time.
'Really would help to define and contextualize what you mean by "Systemic racism is real in America", I 'think.
Lessens the chances that it becomes a debate of defining terms.
Though I'm fond of freeform debates myself, at times.
Interested?